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Old 10-30-2015, 11:41 AM   #1
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Bob's 2015 GRAND TOUR vs MY 2012 Tour... same old problems despite name change!

Bob, have your problems with your GT been resolved by now or are you still fighting them? You're not alone out there and this lack of customer satisfaction on the part of the factory is prevalent at the low-end up through the multi-million dollar high end coaches. Makes one want to never buy new... but instead buy one that has a few years on it but that has been well maintained and buy from an owner, not a dealer. Dealers are full of themselves and will say and promise anything to get us to buy... just because they sell Winnies does NOT mean they know anything about the more serious problems and how to fix them. We have a 2012 Tour. Took us 3 years of "working with" Winnebago before we finally threw up our hands and said screw them! We discovered a young man in Tucson, AZ who works independently but who figures these coaches out and gets it fixed. He's got a family to feed and relies on satisfied customers to keep food on the table and roof over their heads so he works his butt off to identify the problem, verify the problem, test the components, determine the faulty component, and repair or replace what's broken. I took ours in to La Mesa RV there in Tucson with a list of 43 items that needed to be fixed, and I had factory approval on them all. They succeeded in fixing NONE! After 6 hours of being there, they brought it to the gate and told me I had to leave or be locked in for the night. I drove across the street to their competitor Lazy Days... who does sell Winnies in FL but can't compete with La Mesa. But after I got shut out at La Mesa, Winnebago approved them to take care of me and they did but they left the galley slide extended and tried to drive it into a service bay so there you have another situation: You can't fix stupid! Their management didn't give a hoot about priorities and we wound up being delayed for over two weeks while they *****-footed around parts issues. Anyway, once we cleared there we still had AquaHot intermittency, a shore power transfer switch that sometimes wouldn't kick in, and a dozen other "frog hair" items like windshield night shade that fails somewhere between up and down, and an awning that powered out but wouldn't come back in sometimes. So, another camper recommended Robert. Robert came out and right off knew there was a problem with the shore power transfer relay because the box was HOT to the touch. The wiring inside was shorting just enough to burn off insulation and ultimately dead shorted it. it was obvious that the factory had not torqued the lugs for the shore power cord to the main relay... OOOPS! They left the contacts loose when we went back to Forest City to work off other problems including replacing a defective shore power reel. Lack of QC? Oh yeah! Anyway, Robert used common sense and practical know-how to fix us up by using the generator's transfer relay as the main shore power input to get us powered back up while we waited on parts to finish the job. He also had the fix for the AquaHot which had been an earlier AH Recall Item that LaMesa RV knew nothing about. The main thermal sensor was not properly sealed when manufactured in Taiwan... so it tripped out the AH at most inopportune times. Robert looked at his iPod and said he had one in his van. 15 minutes later he had it fixed. I won't ever buy another brand new coach and Winnebago has pooped in their own mess kit when they allow LaMesa the leeway they give them to devalue customers and make it always about "your fault, not ours". Our Tour is purring and operating fine but there's one thing about this thread that is a mistake... you cannot get a face-to-face or a personal call through to anyone at Winnebago with any clout and for damn sure you won't get an engineer to use one of these coaches him/herself so they can experience bumping their head on the cabinet over the mid-ship sink when they wash their face or trying to put a DISH DVR or Hopper receiver in the entertainment cabinet above the passenger's front seat that's been made 4.75 inches too shallow because they put a false wall in there for electrical plugs and video feed wall-throughs... and this problem still exists 4 years after my 2012! I fixed mine, because they wouldn't custom build me a cabinet back in 2012. Their service dept likes to pass the buck to suppliers and vendors. I'm done with them!! I'll take the cost of buying a new one to keep mine in great shape over the remainder of my life and do totally without the bull they lay out about warranty service and dealer capability. It's too stressful to have to put up with it and by handling it myself, I can walk away at any time I think I'm being lied to or taken advantage of.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:49 PM   #2
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I need time to comprehend what is being written here.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:52 PM   #3
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I stopped reading about 3" down, the lack of paragraphing and spacing makes it too difficult to read.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:59 PM   #4
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WOW I agree with Ray
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Old 10-31-2015, 07:58 AM   #5
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Interesting joined 4 years ago - no posts in the past 3 years and he comes out swinging on this one
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:31 AM   #6
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Interesting joined 4 years ago - no posts in the past 3 years and he comes out swinging on this one

Pent up steam requires a large vent to restore equilibrium. Hope big feather feels better now.
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:09 AM   #7
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WELLLLL----I tend to try to put myself in others shoes before condemning. If I had invested in a coach the level bigfeather has, I would expect it and the dealer and manufacturer to deliver. These homes on wheels are quite complicated but that is known going in. All involved in the retail side of them would be well served to remember that. Us consumers tend to believe for the money we pay we should be able to expect a certain level of quality and concern on the part of these "professionals".

I have owned and travelled in a 1973 GMC CLASSIC for over 25 years. I now have a 2005 Adventurer. Since joining IRV2 it seems the large majority of problems reported are with the NEWER coaches. Perhaps there is wisdom in buying used well cared for units.
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:41 AM   #8
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Well, I read the entire post and can relate to the frustration having experienced many of the issues firsthand myself regarding our coach, the factory and dealers. We also came to the same resolution, but finding a good independent RV service center isn't easy. All is now as it should have been coming from the factory.

I am confused, however, by the title. I sense that I missed part of the story?????
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Old 11-01-2015, 10:49 AM   #9
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This is an issue with most new bought coaches, It is a fact, The build quality is poor at best in most cases.
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Old 11-01-2015, 04:25 PM   #10
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Couldn't wade through the mass of frustration written by the OP. But it is interesting that Winnebago industries is changing CEO. When the RV industry hit rock bottom Potts did all he could to survive. Why he didn't go back to the original business model of the Winnebago founder when things got better I don't understand. The Winnebago of the New Age is no better than some of the bad other RV manufactures out there. They went as far as to stop publishing schematics for coaches after '09. I was told they did that to save money. (???) Won't save any for me when I need the info for troubleshooting!

One of the biggest problems new RV buyers face is the fact that the manufactures expect the dealers to fix quality control issues. Most of the folks doing the work don't have a clue I am sad to say. When a real problem arises the chance of getting it fixed correctly are as good as shooting at a flock of ducks when you have never hunted before.

Happy trails,
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Old 11-01-2015, 06:52 PM   #11
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Who's Bob?
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:59 AM   #12
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I too am surprised at the lack of quality workmanship in my new Itasca 33C. Everyday something new seems to go wrong, fall apart, leak, etc. Even a repair made by a dealer only lasted a couple of days before malfunctioning again. The scariest mishap was when an awning cover flew off of our coach while driving down the interstate. Neither the dealer or Winnebago seemed concerned in the least.

We are on our way to try to get our coach repaired. I am cautiously optimistic that all will be repaired and not fall apart when we get back on the road.
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:45 AM   #13
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Isn't odd how we all have such different experiences with the ownership of our RV's

I, for one, have had very little (nothing major) wrong with my RV.. but as debbiw says, "everyday something new seems to go wrong"...

I've often wondered how this can be.. I've read on this forum so many issues with the F53 chassis to the individual models.. and brand doesn't matter.. the QC bug hits all of them.. but why is this.. how can one go down the assembly line and have no issues (or very few).. and the very next one has ALL the issues..

Doesn't that boggle anyone else's mind ??

Same goes with factory support... We took our RV to Forest City and had a wonderful experience... the same goes with all the interactions with the people at WBGO leading up to our arrival.. they were courteous, knowledgeable and genuinely wanted to make us happy... yet, I continually read about experiences just the opposite.. Again, why is that ??

weird stuff, indeed !!!
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Old 11-04-2015, 11:00 AM   #14
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Bottom line is that they are used car shyster peddling more expensive sh#%
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Old 11-04-2015, 11:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by oakcreekeric View Post
Isn't odd how we all have such different experiences with the ownership of our RV's

I, for one, have had very little (nothing major) wrong with my RV.. but as debbiw says, "everyday something new seems to go wrong"...

I've often wondered how this can be.. I've read on this forum so many issues with the F53 chassis to the individual models.. and brand doesn't matter.. the QC bug hits all of them.. but why is this.. how can one go down the assembly line and have no issues (or very few).. and the very next one has ALL the issues..

Doesn't that boggle anyone else's mind ??

Same goes with factory support... We took our RV to Forest City and had a wonderful experience... the same goes with all the interactions with the people at WBGO leading up to our arrival.. they were courteous, knowledgeable and genuinely wanted to make us happy... yet, I continually read about experiences just the opposite.. Again, why is that ??

weird stuff, indeed !!!
I don't know where you saw all the problems with the F-53 chassis, there have been few. Most of the handling and ride issue problems are due to the fact that it is actually a truck with a house on it, not a luxury vehicle. Thus you will have a harsher ride, more susceptible to wind and noise. Once you adjust to that fact it is a very reliable chassis and not all that uncomfortable.
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Old 11-04-2015, 11:48 AM   #16
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I don't know where you saw all the problems with the F-53 chassis, there have been few. Most of the handling and ride issue problems are due to the fact that it is actually a truck with a house on it, not a luxury vehicle. Thus you will have a harsher ride, more susceptible to wind and noise. Once you adjust to that fact it is a very reliable chassis and not all that uncomfortable.
Totally agree.. that's what I don't understand.. I read all the time that they hate the F53 chassis.. that they can't talk to the passenger without screaming because the engine is too loud.. that it doesn't handle well.. that it's too rough a ride.. and the things you mention about swaying and such..

I don't get it.. to be perfectly honest.. I must have done something right in another life.. because my F53 chassis rides like a dream.. yeah, it's not as forgiving as an 8 bag air ride chassis.. and when the road is rough, I feel it.. but I take all that into consideration.. I also didn't spend over $200k on my RV.. I just drove from Nashville, IN to Milwaukee, WI on Sunday.. it was two finger driving... except for when we got to Chicago..
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Old 11-04-2015, 12:37 PM   #17
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Most interesting.

Values are a moving target and interpreted differently by each beholder. It is difficult to understand what the problem is. If you read the entire text (and I did in spite of the difficulty of one large rambling paragraph) there are many things that I cannot reconcile.

I find it difficult to believe that out of a list of 43 items none were fixed unless they did not work on it. And not fixed within a six hour time frame!! With 43 items I expect to be there at least a couple days.

Obviously the OP is very passionate about his investment. I understand that completely and agree with him that things should be fixed. However there is a saying that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

In my experience some of the most demanding folks produce the lowest quality work. Not all of the time but . . . . .
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:13 PM   #18
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Interesting feedback..... Considering Tour

It's not a matter of if but when we move from our KOTR 5r. Over a year now we have looked at, read about and talked to owners at various CG's. Tour is the layout DW and I like the most but visiting with some owners they have complained about the slides.

I have never had slide issues on any RV ever and our King of the Road has 4 of them. We were next to a guy who had I think a new 2013 and it had been in factory twice.

So we have taken a wait and see how things progress with company but we certainly like that coach.

Jim
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:00 AM   #19
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It's not a matter of if but when we move from our KOTR 5r. Over a year now we have looked at, read about and talked to owners at various CG's. Tour is the layout DW and I like the most but visiting with some owners they have complained about the slides.

I have never had slide issues on any RV ever and our King of the Road has 4 of them. We were next to a guy who had I think a new 2013 and it had been in factory twice.

So we have taken a wait and see how things progress with company but we certainly like that coach.

Jim
We love our Tour. Have had the aforementioned slide problems but both times the dealer had the coach less than a day to repair them.

Most of the issues we have had were with third party features.

In looking at different MH manufacturers most seem use the same suppliers and most likely the same model unit.
I do not believe any MH manufacturer will consistently build the perfect MH. Occasionally they may produce one with no problems but I believe that is the exception.

Waiting until things are perfect will rob you several or more years of enjoyable RV'ing. I can highly recommend Lichtsinn who is our dealer. Good dealership, great shop, wonderful people.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:06 PM   #20
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We love our Tour. Have had the aforementioned slide problems but both times the dealer had the coach less than a day to repair them.

Most of the issues we have had were with third party features.

In looking at different MH manufacturers most seem use the same suppliers and most likely the same model unit.
I do not believe any MH manufacturer will consistently build the perfect MH. Occasionally they may produce one with no problems but I believe that is the exception.

Waiting until things are perfect will rob you several or more years of enjoyable RV'ing. I can highly recommend Lichtsinn who is our dealer. Good dealership, great shop, wonderful people.

I have to agree with Gordon. We love our 2015 Ellipse. We have had issues with supplier provided items, but so far, they have been covered. We had troubles with the ceiling lights and Winny sent them to me and I replaced them. 18 so far. The manufacture of the lights admitted a problem and has resolved that I hope. The slide out problems I think have been resolved with the 2015 and newer. Different type of mechanism that appears to be stronger.

We have three new pumps coming for the Aqua Hot and a new valve for the right rear jack. (Won't stay down) We have also been to the factory for some issues and they fixed those as well.

Overall, very pleased with the coach. I watched this forum and others about Winnebago Tours and Itasca Ellipse before we purchased. Good information and good people here.
Lon
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