38Q Fridge water supply valve hidden and leaking - HELP!

[Americanrascal]

On the 2016 Adventurer 38Q the factory installed 2 needle valves on the polybutylene fridge water supply line as the line passes from the sink, to the front, and over to the driver side forward slide, then to the rear of the fridge. The needle valve behind the fridge is easy to access for use repair and maintenance , but not so on the in line valve that lies somewhere above the floor, inside the forward outer wall and floor of the slide. The area in question seems to be some sort of chase for flexible wiring and this water line to pass up into the slide as it extends along the cable carrier.

I removed spray foam insulation at the area where the lines all pass from the cable carrier on the slide ram into the wall section and chase. Then I tried to feel around and move the polybutylene water line to find the needle valve. No Joy. Based on what I see on all the 'bago drawings" the only access to the area is by removing the fireplace to access the "chase" or wire cover located behind the fireplace.

OK ---any secrets on how to get the fireplace out? All I can figure is to gently pry the outer trim off, then remove what appear to be 4 screws holding it to the wood frame on the fireplace flange and then slide it out??? Am I missing anything? Anyone out there had "hidden needle valve repair" fun or "enjoyable fireplace removal" on a Q?

Any and all guidance appreciated!!

Oh --- I did shut the water line off from the under sink valve so the flood has receded. But momma wants her ice maker working and daddy wants to keep momma happy. Thanks.

Joe

[Morich]

Sounds like you have a real bear cornered on this one!

I like playing with the interactive setup and this sounds like a really good time to use it. Are the files you printed from that parts or where did you get your info?
I might be seeing the location as being below the floor???
But looking at drawings can often miss the mark by a long way, so maybe I need to check before saying what I "think" I see!!

Two builds on your RV,so do you know if you have early or late build?
Difference being the 7th digit of serial number, if not sure??

I did some looking on both and I "may" be seeing the location a bit different but I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at.
Am I seeing steel beams as the RV frame or am I seeing floor?

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]


But I would do a guess of the valve being just below the floor, possibly in an outside compartment but back flat against a wall where it might be missed?

Might be nicer than removing the fireplace but it might also be just trash thinking!! I have a lot of stuff that goes in the round file, so use as you find it!

Maybe on bottom of slide so you would have to lay down to spot it?

[Americanrascal]

Thank you for the reply Richard!

Let me give you more info here. I have the late model of the '16 Q (serial #2). The drawings came from the interactive parts catalogue pages I copied for the post.

Access to the area from underneath the slide is pretty decent. The valve is not below the floor- its somewhere up in the wall in the vicinity of the chase that carries this line and wires from the ram tray into the coach. I truly hoped the valve would have been outside the lower floor of the slide--- but it is not. After removing the foam insulation from around the "chase"- as I call it- I was able to get a finger up inside the wall about 2 inches from underneath. I could not come in contact with the supposed valve.

Ideally the valve would have been below the floor and outside so as to avoid the great flood in the event of a valve failure like i am experiencing. Well that isn't the case .

I had hoped I could free whatever valve there is up and pull it through to remove and splice the line or to fish a new poly line through while I was underneath the open slide. I can't for the life of me figure why that valve even exists there--- makes no sense.

I pulled downward on the line an attempt to free the valve but no luck. I attempted to pull toward the rear (there is some slack ) from the fridge rear compartment end- still no luck. The valve- or whatever seems to be stuck or attached at some point behind(???) the fireplace and hope I can meet up with the valve. My only option seems to be to get behind the fireplace.

There is some sort of path for the line to extend from the forward area to the fridge at the rear of the slide. I initially thought it ran through the hollow beam running the length at the outer wall/floor connection. It does not- its somewhere in the wall above the floor possibly after it passes up through the chase from underneath the rig.

Someone responded to this inquiry over on IRV2 about how to get behind the fireplace. I always hate removing wood trim on the rig but I've done it in the past so looks like I'll have to go that route and just hope I can get to the line and valve from there?

I wish the drawings had been clearer on why and how the valve exists and how to get to it.

I guess I could use a jack hammer and a sawz all to bust a 3' square hole on the outside wall to access the area in question, but I guess i better not do that LOL!

Many thank -- Joe

[Morich]

Argh!
Just hoping for finding/guessing at a better way. I'm also against working with the wood any time it can be avoided.. Finishing wood is not one of my talents or fun things as it never comes out as good.
Would they have gone to the trouble to add this valve for testing the plumbing on the body before adding to the slide and testing the whole? Seems way more trouble/expense when they could have just stopped the end for temporary.

No chance of removing a trim piece on the outside of the slide where the tube might be hidden? That seems like asking for freeze trouble if it is that close to an outside wall and no real heating nearby??

More ideas for the round file!!

[Morich]

Have you also seen this view from the plumbing drawings?

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000209728.pdf

Page three with a different view but not much to help?

[Americanrascal]

Looks similar but they placed the valve above the floor and chase- its not like in the drawings. The area up to the wall chase from the bottom is wide open easy to get to. No valve there as shown in drawings. Its definitely above unfortunately.

I just can't figure out the purpose for the valve as there is a valve on either end of the line.

Oh well I need to pull the fireplace anyway to replace the control panel which is on the fritz.

[Morich]

You got that right! Go with what you see, not what I find on drawings.
Is there anything to actually say there IS a valve there?

What about the idea they started with two valves and somebody began to ask WHY and they changed to just going through with a tube?
Then they may have added a clamp of some type that keeps you from just pulling the old out?
That would make tying a new tube on the end of the old and using the old as a "pull wire" a good deal but the clamp stop you?

If you need to get to the fireplace anyway, that sounds like a good way to get more info but if you can get to each end of that chase, maybe just running a fishtape through and pulling new tube to join some point where you can get to the old is worth a thought??

[Americanrascal]

I'm pretty well convinced based on the tension on the water line that the needle valve with long wings on the valve stem, that the valve is there and somewhat hung up among the electric lines in and above the chase where it turns to go rearward to the fridge. I suspect the valve is hung up in the web of large power wires going through this chase opening. Or it is stuck in foam. Otherwise I could likely get it free enough to get it below floor level where I could replace it.

There is a mass and web of large diameter wires woven with the 1/4 inch water line that apparently power aspects of the slide elements passing though the same chase hole.

The web of power and the water line in and through the chase are so snug I could not get my plumbing snake through that section. Doing that was one of my first thoughts-- but it was a total fail. Just could not make the turn up into the slide. No luck from the other direction. There is literally no movement or slack in the line in and around the chase where the turn is made, otherwise I'd use the existing line as a snake.

So hard to believe they left that valve where it is inaccessible (or to even understand why it exists), then jammed the entire region around the chase with expansion spray foam. In fact I suspect the valve is jammed with foam up in the wall which I can not get to to remove or free the valve. I can understand them foaming to eliminate open area, but they went over the top with it.

I sure hope this doesn't happen to anyone else's rig.

[Americanrascal]

Got the fireplace out and there sat the needle valve behind it. Low and behold--- not a drop of water leaking or any evidence of a leak. A real wild goose chase.

Pressurized the line and no water.

Now I suspect it was the wiper seal under the slide is acting up or didn't seat right leaving lots of puddled water to run under the slide and on to the underlying floor.

I don't think I'll cut the 3'X 3' hole in the slide wall with a jack hammer and Sawzall after all to make the fix.

Thanks Richard for all the input. Much appreciated.

Oh by the way my side project of working on the fireplace to replace the control buttons didn't go well while I had the fireplace out. The remote control activates and operates the fireplace OK but no luck with the button replacement. Getting the new one in was quite miserable. Likely will just replace the fireplace as there are way to many electronic components on the innards and control boards for my pay grade.

Pic included of the wonderful- and useless location of the needle valve for the fridge supply line--- that was not leaking. The little valve sits loosely about mid picture--- doing nothing.

[Morich]

I wonder how far down that channel is filled with foam as it seems to hang on tight enough to keep you from pulling the slack very much. Does that mean there IS no way to pull in a new one? OUCH!

Well, this is kind of life's lesson, I guess?

I'm not sure what exactly we are supposed to learn though.

Somehow we are supposed to learn that we never know enough, maybe?

Nice to have a group where we can bat a few ideas back and forth at least.

[Americanrascal]

Originally Posted by Morich

I wonder how far down that channel is filled with foam as it seems to hang on tight enough to keep you from pulling the slack very much. Does that mean there IS no way to pull in a new one? OUCH!

Well, this is kind of life's lesson, I guess?

I'm not sure what exactly we are supposed to learn though.

Somehow we are supposed to learn that we never know enough, maybe?

Nice to have a group where we can bat a few ideas back and forth at least.

Spot on and well said!

Learned a bunch out of this drill!

In the end it turned out it was not the wiper seal. It actually was the fridge water supply line inside the wall between the fridge and the infamous needle valve. I was able to chisel away enough foam to get some decent movement along the line. Then trucked over to Home Depot for a new line. Taped it to the end I cut upstream of the needle valve and pulled it though to the needle valve behind the fridge. Used 2 slip couplings to connect. All came out perfect. Got lots of experience with removing and reinstalling the fireplace LOL. Found a pinhole in the line section I removed.

Still can't figure out the mid line behind the fireplace needle valve. Guess they had some excess needle valve inventory to use up ?????????

[Morich]

Great to get a fix done! But then the learning part seems like it never comes back around to the same trouble.
If you've had eight RV, I'm sure you have some experience that you would rather not do a second time!!

I'm betting this is another one of that type.
Sleep well.