2013 Journey - 42E - Frozen Pipes

[audvid1]

Hi there
We were in Salem OR when the freeze hit, and left the water on a slow drip and had water this morning to take showers, but once we unhooked camp site water and went to turn on water pump, no water, checked pump area and all the pipes are frozen. I saw the 2" hose vents there, but there is no heat that comes out of them, we ran both furnace's and nothing came out. I looked at the CAD drawings and cant see where they are hooked up into the heating system?
Does anyone know how to get heat to those important area's. It was 14 in Salem OR last night, tonight we are in Yreka CA, and it is expected to get down to 10 degree's tonight here.

We did go down and buy a small heater and put in water compartment so we can thaw the pipes, so we have some water, but just wondering is there a better way (other than be South when it gets cold)

Thanks
Paul & Debbie
Currently in Yreka CA

[KIX]

A "trouble light" like mechanics used when working on cars. Put a 75 watt bulb in it, make sure the housing is not touching anything combustible, close the compartment door......and then just wait

[Doug Sage]

Originally Posted by KIX

A "trouble light" like mechanics used when working on cars. Put a 75 watt bulb in it, make sure the housing is not touching anything combustible, close the compartment door......and then just wait

When it gets to the low 20s or below I believe the trouble light is the way to go. I carry two. One for the water pump hatch and one for the water drain/shower hatch. The keeps it warm enough to avoid freezing at least into the low teens and probably lower. Be sure to not let the light housing touch anything as mentioned above.

[jerichorick]

I wish I could help you with the piping issue. I leave the basement lights on in the cold. This idea came from another irv2er. The trouble lights is always a good idea and even a fix.

Is your freshwater tank in the compartment by the right front wheel? If so, this is another potential freeze area. I have not checked my heat vents when the furnace is running. I am not running the pump so I don't know if I am in trouble or not. I will check this out later.

I'm in TX and we are having the low 20's problem also. This coach has been treating us great so far. LP is a problem but I just installed a Tee and quick disconnect just before the regulator. With a hose I have I am plugging a 20# tank in place of running the main. Moving the coach for LP is a pain to pack. DW has lots of stuff to secure.

Hope things thaw out soon for you. Happy trails,
Rick

[ladagobago]

We may have a different set up than you but when travel takes us to upstate NY we face temps down to the 10* range and we use a 75 watt light in the outside shower and dump bin. I also have that plastic insulated with 1/2 inch builders foam. I tape it together with aluminum duct tape.

my furnace runs the length under the floor and has a small pipe that ducts heat down to the insulated 100 gal water tank. my basement on the right is heated.

we have never had a freeze up on the pipes. then again we never hook up directly to camp water but always fill the tank and run off of that.

try using a ceramic space heater on the 500 watt setting.

[Steve COH]

Do you have a basement thermostat, and what is it set at?

[dengraham]

Paul and Debbie,
I am sorry to hear you are having frozen pipe problems. Are you running the #2 propane heater?? There is a 2 inch flex pipe that runs from the heater located in the driver slide that runs down to the water compartment. You can see it on this page (if it works): FURNACE SYSTEM 182344-01-000
If you are only using the #1 heater (rear heater) it will not provide heat to the water compartment. Is it possible you only have one heater turned on?
Steve, I never heard of a basement thermostat? I think the 42E has a single thermostat for three a/c zones and two heat pump or propane zones. Do you have one? Is it an after market?

[DAN L]

Originally Posted by audvid1

Hi there
We were in Salem OR when the freeze hit, and left the water on a slow drip and had water this morning to take showers, but once we unhooked camp site water and went to turn on water pump, no water, checked pump area and all the pipes are frozen. I saw the 2" hose vents there, but there is no heat that comes out of them, we ran both furnace's and nothing came out. I looked at the CAD drawings and cant see where they are hooked up into the heating system?
Does anyone know how to get heat to those important area's. It was 14 in Salem OR last night, tonight we are in Yreka CA, and it is expected to get down to 10 degree's tonight here.

We did go down and buy a small heater and put in water compartment so we can thaw the pipes, so we have some water, but just wondering is there a better way (other than be South when it gets cold)

Thanks
Paul & Debbie
Currently in Yreka CA

i installed wired indoor-outdoor temp gauges in my pump, tank bays and rear water service bay.
i should have used a wireless gauge from walmart.
i run the water heater, electric or propane, and that keeps the front compartment and the water tank compartments warm.
i use a 100 w light bulb in a ''metal trouble light'' to keep the aft water service compartment warm.
it was 9 degrees a couple of nights ago and my compartment temp was 34 degrees. for a while, i thought i was going to need to hook up a second trouble light or turn the furnace on.
i normally use 3 1500w ceramic cube heaters in my moho.
if i use the propane furnace, return air to the furnace warms my water service compartment.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Steve COH

Do you have a basement thermostat, and what is it set at?

I am not familiar with this for a Winne. Maybe if it has a hydroponic floor heater this would be possible. Does Winne offer this? I know some other manufactures do.

We are stuck with intervention and prevention. The cube heaters and drop lights, along with the onboard furnaces are our options. I like the post about the Walmart thermometers. Great idea.

I got up to 22* this morning. I am connected to city water. We are at DW's twins house on a RV pad they put in for us. The Dallas area of TX is not supposed to be this cold this long. We are not scheduled to leave for S Texas for another month. I left New England to get away from this stuff. God is good and knows what I need. We'll survive.

Happy and warm trails all,
Rick

[audvid1]

Thanks for all the responses. We have been running both furnaces, but they don't run much at night since the coach is very well insulated, inside we also run the fireplace and one electric heater, so that may be part of our problem. I looked at the furnace drawing 182344-01-000 that Dennis and Trish talked about, but i don't see where it is connected to furnace #2, i went and checked again when that furnace was running and there was no air flow on the water tank, water pump or in the service bay, from the drawing it looks like it goes into a void below the motor home floor. Yes our water tank is in the front behind passenger wheel.
The heater in the water compartment worked real well, but i like the trouble light solution better, so will make a Wal-Mart trip soon. Yesterday leaving Yreka CA, it was 7 degrees outside and we had water from the park and the water pump since we had the heater in the bay. After leaving the park, within a half hour, we had frozen pipes again and the water pump on board was frozen again. We were headed south to Napa CA and by later afternoon it all thawed out. Glad to be out of the cold.
We love the Journey, way better in keeping you warm than our ALFA ever did, but just gotta get the freezing pipe issue solved. May look at some insulating when it gets warm and can crawl around the compartments.
Thanks again all for the help

Paul & Debbie
Currently in Napa CA

[Steve COH]

Our '12 Tour has a basement thermostat. It is a dial type for the desired basement temperature, and is located in the compartment that the electric cord reel is in. This may be different for your system as it is a furnace instead of an Aqua Hot system.

I would like to think there is some method of controlling the amount of air going through the tubes into your basement compartments. Have you checked with Owner Relations at Winnie?

[Journey39n]

I can't believe I am in southern California, and it was 27 last night! But warmer soon, I hope.
We spent two winters in WA and used a thermostatic block with a 100w incandescent bulb (mechanic's trouble light) in the water compartment. It switched on at 35 off at 40, worked very well. Since hitting the road, if outside temps go below freezing, I always disconnect from outside water.
Since the heat-pump doesn't work below 36, we used to rely on electric space heaters to take up the slack. But now on the road, we let the propane furnace do its job below 36, and it keeps us warm, and the water compartment warm (no extra heat needed). There isn't much furnace airflow to the compartment, but it doesn't take much. Remember those big tanks usually open to the compartment, are big heaters too, and will radiate heat through the night.
What we have seen, with friends that have freeze problems, is they set their room temp too low, 50 can be great for sleeping, but the propane furnace may not come on even once, since the coaches are well insulated. Then you can get freeze-up in the water compartments. So on a freezing night, you might want to set your room temps higher than you might normally.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by audvid1

Thanks for all the responses. We have been running both furnaces, but they don't run much at night since the coach is very well insulated, inside we also run the fireplace and one electric heater, so that may be part of our problem. I looked at the furnace drawing 182344-01-000 that Dennis and Trish talked about, but i don't see where it is connected to furnace #2, i went and checked again when that furnace was running and there was no air flow on the water tank, water pump or in the service bay, from the drawing it looks like it goes into a void below the motor home floor. Yes our water tank is in the front behind passenger wheel.
The heater in the water compartment worked real well, but i like the trouble light solution better, so will make a Wal-Mart trip soon. Yesterday leaving Yreka CA, it was 7 degrees outside and we had water from the park and the water pump since we had the heater in the bay. After leaving the park, within a half hour, we had frozen pipes again and the water pump on board was frozen again. We were headed south to Napa CA and by later afternoon it all thawed out. Glad to be out of the cold.
We love the Journey, way better in keeping you warm than our ALFA ever did, but just gotta get the freezing pipe issue solved. May look at some insulating when it gets warm and can crawl around the compartments.
Thanks again all for the help

Paul & Debbie
Currently in Napa CA

Good morning Paul and Debbie. I hope things have improved since the above.

What I am about to suggest is advised against in the owners manual as far as I understand but is done all the time. Run both LP furnaces when you travel. Leaving the basement lights on if they are NOT LED types provides a good source of warmth also.

It was 17* when I got up yesterday. I shut the city water off and ran the pump. It started slow but came up to good pressure in short order. What I have been doing is definitely working. I think we are in a mini ice age condition. So much for global warming!

Safe travels. Happy trails,
Rick

[dsbike]

Paul & Debbie, I have the same mh as you. I do get a very little amount of airflow out of my basement flex hoses. When I a little I mean you can barely feel the airflow, this only comes from the #2 zone propane heater. I feel nothing when I am on the heat pump. So far we have been fine with no freezing pipes. We have seen temps as low as 21 this past month.

Welcome to the forum we're glad you are here. My sister & brother in law are also named Debbie & Paul.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by dsbike

Paul & Debbie, I have the same mh as you. I do get a very little amount of airflow out of my basement flex hoses. When I a little I mean you can barely feel the airflow, this only comes from the #2 zone propane heater. I feel nothing when I am on the heat pump. So far we have been fine with no freezing pipes. We have seen temps as low as 21 this past month.

Welcome to the forum we're glad you are here. My sister & brother in law are also named Debbie & Paul.

My 40U is the same way but it is enough to keep things from freezing.

The heat pump is strictly ceiling vented. There is no need to cool the basement and the heat pump is only good to about 33 or 34* under certain conditions, and often higher.

We have gotten as low as 17* here. This is a new to us coach and it is our first winter with it. Running the LP heaters and keeping the basement lights on has worked great so far, along with letting the bathroom sink faucet run slowly. We are snug and comfortable all around. We use a space heater and the fireplace during the day but I watch to make certain the LP furnaces run from time to time.

I have no idea what will happen if we have freezing temps while on the road. I'll definitely let folks know how things go if this happens.

Happy trails,
Rick

[jazzerjump]

I have read these threads with interest since we will be departing N Idaho soon for Arizona. We have just had a stretch of near 0 weather here and I have seen where points south have been awful cold also. We have an 04 Sightseer (new to us) which has the water tank under the bed along with the water pump. May be a little more noisy than an under carriage pump but am hoping the set up will keep things from freezing. We also have the rear coach heater that heats the rear from the engine coolant and a MotorAide hot water system than preheats the water tank from the engine also.

I believe I will stay away from using camp site water based on what I have read it temps are predicted to drop near or below freezing but am not sure if the outside shower system will be safe. I suspect once the system is pressurized it will have water to it. Does anyone have Sightseer experience in cold weather that they can share-thanks

[grtharris]

audvid1, been waiting for some info from Winnebago before I posted. The upper chassis longitudinal 3”x 3” tube is utilize as a heat plenum which is connected to the rear furnace and feeds the 2" flex tubes going to the lower bays.
Looking at the drawing there are a lot of place for air leaks.

[cliffm]

Last winter, we took a trip out to Breckenridge and stayed out there for about a month. Got quite cold...single digits and below. Learned quite a bit about cold weather RVing on that trip.

We got a couple of electric heaters to put in the basement area. Had one running on low in the utility area, but still got some freezing in other areas. That coach was a 2005 Fleetwood Excursion we traded in for the Itasca Meridian 42E.

If you are somewhere where you will be parked for a while, it may be worth your time to run to home depot and get a 100 foot roll of polyethelene (10 to 12 foot wide). Cut it in half long ways, and then use it to create a "skirt" around the bottom of the coach. You can get some plastic clips to help hold it in place, and we also used the bay doors theselves to help hold it. We used bricks and empty gallon jugs partially filled as weights. It kept the coach warmer, cut propane use dramatically, and stopped the freezing issue we were having.

I don't think we'll have the same level of issues in the 42e, but I did pick up several work lights at Home Depot a couple of weeks ago. I think those, plus the skirt, will keep us out of trouble. The skirt is a pain if you have to unhook to go get propane, so we got a Linger Longer valve put on the propane line so we could use auxiliary bottles if we need/want to.

We also found that Home Depot and Lowes usually have some good inexpensive heaters available. But you can't cheat and run 3 or 4 of them to heat the whole coach or you'll be tripping breakers.

[Doug Sage]

There are two points to be aware of here. The first is that the ONLY source of heat to the basement water compartments is the propane furnace. Apparently this is furnace #2 in rigs with two furnaces. These furnaces need to run on a VERY regular basis to keep the compartments above freezing. It is convenient and comfortable to use the fireplace and/or extra electric heaters to keep the interior comfortable but these do not add any heat to the basement compartments and in fact will cause the propane furnace to run less time and therefore allow the compartments to get too cold. The best solution in my opinion is to add extra heat to the compartments yourself. I do this with trouble lights in each water compartment. Some use small electric heaters set on low. In either event, you need to be careful that you do hot overheat and create a fire possibility. Of course the other option is to winterize and drain all of the water out of the pipes until you get to warmer territory.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Doug Sage

There are two points to be aware of here. The first is that the ONLY source of heat to the basement water compartments is the propane furnace. Apparently this is furnace #2 in rigs with two furnaces. These furnaces need to run on a VERY regular basis to keep the compartments above freezing. It is convenient and comfortable to use the fireplace and/or extra electric heaters to keep the interior comfortable but these do not add any heat to the basement compartments and in fact will cause the propane furnace to run less time and therefore allow the compartments to get too cold. The best solution in my opinion is to add extra heat to the compartments yourself. I do this with trouble lights in each water compartment. Some use small electric heaters set on low. In either event, you need to be careful that you do hot overheat and create a fire possibility. Of course the other option is to winterize and drain all of the water out of the pipes until you get to warmer territory.

I think you will find that both LP furnaces supply heat to different areas of the basement. In sustained cold, to save LP, the electric heating is a good idea. When on the road I think it is safer to use only LP because a heater could get intercepted by some sort of flammable material while things are bouncing down the road. But, you have covered this in some aspects.

We have not used any electric intervention yet. The external tank swapping has helped but I plan on filling up the main tank on Thursday. We will be away for the holidays and my brother-in-law will be monitoring the coach for me. I need all bases covered as best as I can. To invest in a bunch of trouble lights and the time to route them safely is not worth the trouble to me at this time. I hope this type of weather is just a fluke. Most of the time we avoid areas that get sustained cold. got caught off guard this time.

Rick