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Old 05-08-2020, 12:58 AM   #1
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2005 Itasca Horizon slide out cylinder access

I have a leak at either the cylinder or hydraulic lines for the driver's side, rear slide. I cannot find a way to access the area where the cylinder and lines are. Does anyone have any idea how to get in to inspect that area? Thanks in advance.


If I can't get into it, I guess I'll have to go to the factory to get it repaired, if they will.



Our coach is an '05 Itasca Horizon 36RD.
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Old 05-10-2020, 06:12 PM   #2
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Maybe this post will steer you in the right direction:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ing-24730.html

Good luck and keep us posted on how you fixed your problem.

This is a bedroom slide, right?

Please post pictures if you can! Thx.

Also check IRV2.com
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
Maybe this post will steer you in the right direction:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ing-24730.html

Good luck and keep us posted on how you fixed your problem.

This is a bedroom slide, right?

Please post pictures if you can! Thx.

Also check IRV2.com

Thank you for the link; but, all it really covers is how to get to the manifold. I've replaced solenoids and fluids there, before. I did find out, back then, not to add fluid unless all slides are in, and the jacks are up. Quite a clean up when the excess fluids came out...

It is the bedroom slide on the driver's side, over the A/C coils. I'm trying to find out how to get to the cylinder, so I can figure out exactly where the leak is coming from. I had a man come out, who works on RVs and big rigs, and who specializes in hydraulics; but, he couldn't figure out how to get to the ram, either. I left an email with HWH, well over a month ago; but, they never answered.

Thanks, again.

Tom
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:01 PM   #4
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Not familiar with your rig, but in mine it is under the bed.
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by rgvtexan View Post
Not familiar with your rig, but in mine it is under the bed.

rgvtexan, our bed runs fore and aft over the engine, at the rear of the coach, over the engine. The cylinder is directly above the electric compartment, where the cord, the inverter/charger, and the automatic transfer switch is mounted. It seems that the hydraulic cylinder is mounted in the small space above that compartment, on the bottom of the slide; but, nothing in that area appears to be accessible. No part has screws to remove any panels. I know there has to be some way to get to it; but, I can't see a way to get in, even if the slide was removed! All my life, even if I couldn't fix something, I've always been able to tear into it; but, not now...


Thank you for trying. I do appreciate it.
Tom
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:06 PM   #6
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Page 164 of the Parts Catalog for your coach shows the component parts of the left rear slideout, but the slideout mechanism itself is kind of hard to see.

Looking at page 176 of the 2004 Horizon 36G Parts Catalog (which has the same slideout mechanism for the left rear slide) gives a little better view of what it looks like. Perhaps that would help in figuring out how to access it.

I would recommend giving Winnebago Owner Relations a call (with your coach S/N) (or email to [email protected]) and I'll bet they can help.
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Old 05-13-2020, 06:51 AM   #7
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My advice is to PM azpete, he's a Winnieowner and HWH employee who's been a great help to many of us.
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:48 AM   #8
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In case these are helpful, here are the HWH Hydraulic (MP69386) and HWH Electrical (MP89169) diagrams for our 2005 36RDs (625 Leveling System with 4 Slideout rooms).
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:00 AM   #9
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BobC, I sent azpete an email; but, of course, they may all have been temporarily laid off. So, I'll just be patient waiting for a reply.


Cbeierl, I downloaded both of the diagrams you sent links to. I'll take some time to look them over; and, I'll send Winnebago an email.


I'm afraid it may be something that I have to make an appointment at Winnebago to get fixed. It could very well be one of those things where they have to pull the slide out to get to.


Thanks to both of you for the good ideas.


Tom
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:15 AM   #10
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cbierel, the email for owner relations caused an error message (MAILER-DAEMON) and a rejection of that email. I went to winnebago.com and filled out an online assistance request to see about getting some help from them.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckydog1949 View Post
cbierel, the email for owner relations caused an error message (MAILER-DAEMON) and a rejection of that email. I went to winnebago.com and filled out an online assistance request to see about getting some help from them.

Sorry, I apparently mangled the address. The correct address is [email protected]
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:06 PM   #12
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Luckydog,
I just got to this thread. Normally I scan them more frequently but, been slacking lately. Anyway, you're in for a real treat Pal! I the bedroom closet slide is powered by TWO rams. One is a slave ram and the other is the master ram. They both do the same amount of work but, the master ram is the one that most commonly leaks. Those rams are powered in both directions, extend and retract. In either case, the ram is rebuildable but, many will simply replace it.

I have had the unfortunate pleasure (if you want to call it that) of having to rebuild that ram TWICE! It is incredibly simple to disassemble for rebuilding. But, the INCREDIBLY HARD PART is REMOVING IT!! You see, that ram is actually removed from the passenger side of the coach. And it's a TON OF WORK to get it out of there. There are not many who own this era/brand/model/make of coach, that are willing to take on this task.

The very first thing that needs to be done is, the ram must be disconnected from the slide. You see, that ram is NOT EXPOSED like the slave ram is. If you extend that slide, and kneel down so you can see the underside of that slide, you'll see two things.

1. The small cylinder with a ram protruding out of it is the slave ram, and it's the furthest one back toward the rear of the coach.
2. The large square tube, houses the master ram. You can see a hole in the bottom of that square tube. If you look in that hole, you'll see the tip of the ram and two nuts. One is on one side of the attaching bracket and the other nut is on the other side, that screws onto the tip of the ram.

Now, one VERY IMPORTANT POINT HERE. THAT HYDRAULIC SYSTEM IS UNDER PRESSURE, 24/7!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In order to disconnect that tip from the attaching bracket, the slide must be propped to the open position. I did that by cutting a 2"x4" to the length that would wedge it between the bottom lip of the slide and the structure of the coach. That will stop the slide from *auto retracting* when you release pressure on the lines.

Here's the procedure for removing that ram. Now, you're not gonna believe this but, it's EXACTLY what has to be done to remove it. The first thing is, to completely remove ALL the house batteries. Once those are out of the way, if you kneel down and look right over the top of the house battery tray, you'll see a removable piece of metal, about oh, maybe 8" high by about maybe 10" wide or so. It's been a while so, going by memory here which, ain't what it used to be.

Anyway, that plate has several rivets that retain it to the side bulk head. Those rivets are to be drilled out so you can remove that plate. Now, what that plate is, is a cover to the side entrance to the Las Angeles freeway system of wiring and plumbing, that you see, when you lift the bed, and remove that 1' x 3' piece of paneling that covers all that wiring and plumbing and the back side of the 12VDC fuse/circuit breakers and the 120VAC breaker panel.

Once that plate is removed, which is a pain in and of itself, then the REAL fun begins. Now, based on the statement above, the bed is lifted and, that 1'x3' piece of paneling (cover) over that wiring is also removed. You should see daylight on the left side due to the fact that you removed that plate. At this point, you cannot see the base of that ram that you're getting ready to remove. ALL OF THE WORK involving wrenches and your fingers, is all done by BRAIL from this point on.

There two hydraulic lines that are connected to that ram. I cannot remember the size wrenches that are needed. You'll have to determine that, again, BY BRAIL. WARNING!!!!!!! Once you break loose either of those fittings, you're gonna get hydraulic oil all over the place due to the fact that like stated earlier, that system is UNDER PRESSURE.

And, when the pressure is released, that slide WANTS TO walk back in, all by itself! THIS is why I used the 2" x 4" x ? length to keep that slide out. Now, it (the hydraulic system, will bleed for only a short while and you'll loose maybe 1/2 a cup of fluid. Have one or two large rags in and around that area, BELOW the fittings you're working on. Now, once both fittings are broke loose and removed, now comes the work on getting the correct wrenches/sockets etc. that are needed to remove the two large bolts and nuts, that retain the foot of that ram, to the main structure of the frame.

If I recall, I think those are 3/4" wrenches/sockets. Now, if and when, you finally get those two bolts out, your ram is now ready to remove. Here comes the fun part. That ram, must be backed out, THROUGH ALL THAT MAZE OF WIRING AND PLUMBING, and right out that entrance hole you created by removal of that plate, and right past the house battery tray. Your ram is now out and you can take it to the bench and disassemble it. Again, this part of the operation is the ultra easy part.

Or, you can take it to a local hydraulic shop, one that rebuilds hydraulic jacks, tractor and dump truck rams, and all that stuff, and he will know exactly what it needs for rebuilding. This ram is not NASA stuff. It's a simple hydraulic ram. ANY HYDRAULIC SHOP can rebuild it. It does not, REPEATE, IT DOES NOT, need to be sent back to HWH for this.

And, rebuilding it is also not rocket science. All that's involved is, replacing of the O-rings in the tip of the piston. DONE! But, it's a matter of getting the correct size O-rings.

Again, this task is not something that the average RV'r is gonna attempt. It's quite involved.

Another approach, although SERIOUSLY more costly is, to obtain the correct part number for that particular ram. Then, order it up which, from HWH, will most likely take WEEKS or a month or two, to get. Then, when the old ram is removed, you simply reverse all the procedure I've outlined and, install the new ram. The cost of a hydraulic shop to rebuild your present ram will hover around maybe $50 - $60 or so. The cost of a new ram from HWH is hovering, at last check, around $238 or so. As stated, seriously more in cost to obtain the same exact results. Your choice on that one.

The cost to rebuild it yourself, about $3.00 for 0-rings. The last time I did it, I got my 0-rings from a hardware store and they were for regular plumbing. So far, they've lasted more than two years without leaking. Yahoooo.

Ok, enough blabbing. Here is some pics of what you're up against. If you have any questions, either ask on here or, PM me if you'd like. Hope some of this helps. Good luck.
Scott
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:05 PM   #13
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Same problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckydog1949 View Post
I have a leak at either the cylinder or hydraulic lines for the driver's side, rear slide. I cannot find a way to access the area where the cylinder and lines are. Does anyone have any idea how to get in to inspect that area? Thanks in advance.


If I can't get into it, I guess I'll have to go to the factory to get it repaired, if they will.



Our coach is an '05 Itasca Horizon 36RD.
I can't find any info online about this but a RV repair guy told me he would have to remove the entire slide to repair. He said it's not the line but the RAM that can only be accessed with the slide out. $2500. I'm gonna carry a lot of fluid and keep the A/C fins cleaned before that expense.

Just lettin' ya know what I've found out because there is no one on this blog that knows.
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:42 PM   #14
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FireUp: That's a nicely detailed write-up on how to remove and repair the bedroom "Closet" ram.

I see you have a 2004 Horizon 36GD floor plan with one closet slide vs. "LuckyDog's" '05 Itasca Horizon 36RD that has 2 closet type slides. Is this correct?

So are you saying your ram is the same as LuckDog's?

In both cases, the 36' Horizons have the bed is facing forward and therefore the bed itself does not slideout in the same way as the Horizon 40' coaches. True? ...But even if this is the case, do you know if the Horizon 40' ram is of the same type as the 36' ram? I'm guessing not, but I have never repaired my 40' ram and hope I never need to.

In any case, you make a good point: That the HWH rams can be repaired at any hydraulic overhaul shop quicker and cheaper than going to HWH. So thanks for the tip!
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:16 AM   #15
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FIRE UP, thanks for the detailed write-up. I'm not sure my coach is the same; but, I will start digging inside to see if it matches up. I never thought to look under the breaker and fuse panels in the cabinet under the bed for access to the HWH hydraulic system!



Stealvis, I'll find out soon if your repair guy is right. After reading the procedure that FIRE UP posted, I can see where it could easily be faster for a shop with the right equipment to pull the slide to do the job. Of course, I don't have that equipment.


I just had to take some time out to replace our washer/dryer that chose this time to finally die. We've had it for 13 years, though; so, we got our money's worth out of it. I'll start looking at the slide problem, again, tomorrow.


Tom
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:53 AM   #16
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Itasca slide out hydraulic leak

The hose fittings from HWH are known to be bad from that time period. Replace the hoses. You can access them by lying under the ac condenser and looking up. Remove the entire hose, take it to NAPA auto parts, and have them make a new hose.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvw613 View Post
The hose fittings from HWH are known to be bad from that time period. Replace the hoses. You can access them by lying under the ac condenser and looking up. Remove the entire hose, take it to NAPA auto parts, and have them make a new hose.

The HWH hose fitting issue pre-dates the 2005 model coaches.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckydog1949 View Post
FIRE UP, thanks for the detailed write-up. I'm not sure my coach is the same; but, I will start digging inside to see if it matches up. I never thought to look under the breaker and fuse panels in the cabinet under the bed for access to the HWH hydraulic system!
...
Tom
Scott's (FIRE UP) left rear slide (the one in question) is identical to those on our 36RD coaches, so his description should be accurate.
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
FireUp: That's a nicely detailed write-up on how to remove and repair the bedroom "Closet" ram.

I see you have a 2004 Horizon 36GD floor plan with one closet slide vs. "LuckyDog's" '05 Itasca Horizon 36RD that has 2 closet type slides. Is this correct?

So are you saying your ram is the same as LuckDog's?

In both cases, the 36' Horizons have the bed is facing forward and therefore the bed itself does not slideout in the same way as the Horizon 40' coaches. True? ...But even if this is the case, do you know if the Horizon 40' ram is of the same type as the 36' ram? I'm guessing not, but I have never repaired my 40' ram and hope I never need to.

In any case, you make a good point: That the HWH rams can be repaired at any hydraulic overhaul shop quicker and cheaper than going to HWH. So thanks for the tip!
Imnprsd,
While I am no expert on the building of, and layout of each Winne and Itasca of the era in question, I have done work on a few and, each and every time, in Winnes and Itascas with the same identical layout, yes, the slides and rams are identical. But, a 40' Winne or Itasca is considerably different and, I've not done any work in the bedroom/slide area to be able to say what's close to the same, and what's not.

As for Luckydogs coach, I'd just about bet my house that it's operation/layout/ram access, is identical to ours. AND NO!!!!!!!!!!!THE SLIDE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!! As much as the way I described the way that particular ram has to be removed, it would be a serious pain in the behind, to remove that slide and, you would GAIN NOTHING! Even if the slide WAS removed, the access to the hydraulic fittings and the ram foot, will still need to be done from where I said it would.

Believe me, if I could have found an easier way to remove and replace that ram, I'd have found it. And, I sort-a did. But, I did not reference it in my first answer to him. You see, the ram foot, as stated, is tucked way to the right of the 120VAC breaker panel and down low, below the flooring. So, to gain access to the bolts that retain that foot, you need to reach down, and way to the right, UNDER THE FLOORING.

But, the second time I had to yank that ram, I sat back and looked at the total picture of that area in and around or behind, that 120VAC breaker panel. And, what I found was, the flooring is of no value there. That is, you don't walk on it. It doesn't support anything, there is nothing dependent on it. But, if I could REMOVE as much of that flooring as possible to be able to gain waaaaaaaaaaay better access to both the Hydraulic fittings and the retaining bolts of the ram foot, guess what, OUT COMES THAT SECTION OF FLOORING!!

I got out whatever kind of saw that was needed, to buzz through that flooring and cut along any borders and supports that I could. I ended up removing about a10" or 12" x 10" section of that flooring. Yahhhhhhooooooo, I could now actually SEE the fittings and retaining bolts. That meant I could use better tools etc. for the operation.

Luckydog,
While my description of the ram removal and replacement does seem like it's the end of the world, it's not as bad as it seems. DIY is my middle name. I'm stubborn in that kind of way. I figure, it's the same as the line Robert De Niro said to Ed Norton in the movie *The Score*. Robert Di Nero was showing Ed Norton a safe. And told him: "IF someone built it, someone can UNBILT IT" .
What that means to me is, if a factory assembly tech installed that system AFTER the coach was built, then I could disassemble it. And persistance is a virtue. Cutting that section of the floor, was an absolute mind blowing enhancement to the operation of removal and re-install of that ram. Your *Brail* type work was just cut down to, "Yeah, I can see it and now have better access to it" type thing.

Now, the "AC condensor" that some are referring to, is the DASH A/C, not the house A/C. Not that it matters all that much. And, there is no reservoir in that area. There is however, a BALANCE CYLINDER/RAM that is used to balance the action for both the EXTEND and the RETRACT operation, of the hydraulics in both the slave ram and the master ram. Without that balance ram, it's possible that the slide could/would actually tweak and push one side out or in, at an angle and therefore, lock the slide by jambing it.

I do have a seeping hydraulic fitting/line in that balance ram fitting/area. But, all I see is some wetness. I wipe it off, and maybe a few months later, it's a bit wet again. I have never, ever, in almost 9 years of ownership, and 93,000 miles, EVER seen ONE DRIP from it. So, yeah, while I should determine just what fitting or line is seeping, I'm not worrying too much about it 'cause it's such a small leak/seep.

Anyway, again, feel free to contact me via PM or whatever, if you think you're gonna take on this feat. The HWH guys can actually do this bedroom closet slide replacement in about 3 hours, total. But, the cost is:

1. You have to travel to HWH to get it done.
2. You have to wait how many months to get an appointment?
3. You have to leave your coach and go play, while they do the work and, if there's anything that goes wrong, and it has to remain apart for an extended amount of time, you're out of luck and then what?
4. Then, if and when you got it fixed by them, you now have to drive it back home.

While it sure would be nice to be able to just cruise into HWH's establishement and hand them over the keys and they say, " it'll be ready for you by.... whatever time you agree to", it's just not gonna happen that easy.

And, HWH knows those systems inside and out. They know EXACTLY what's needed for access to that ram, the tools needed, the stuff that needs to be removed and re-installed AFTER the ram has been either replaced or repaired. You cannot, REPEAT, cannot just take it to any old RV service establishment. My description of how to gain access to that ram, IS THE ONLY WAY to do it. So, TELLING an RV repair center tech, how to do a job, most likely ain't gonna happen. And if they break something or, damage any part of the 12VDC circuitry, or the 120AC circuitry that is in that immediate area, guess who's paying for that, YOU ARE!

So, again, in reality, it's complicated but, not all that hard. Maybe it's because I've done it more than once that I claim that it's not that hard, I don't know.
Scott

P.S. Some of these pics maybe repeats but, you can clearly see what I've chopped out of that flooring to gain better access to that ram foot.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:21 PM   #20
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Location: Just roaming around... (home base Shreveport, LA)
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The prospect of having to remove the house batteries actually seems to be the most labor intensive part of accessing the ram. I'm not as strong as I used to be. Thank you, FIRE UP for the added advice to cut out some flooring for better access. I may make a cover, with a thumb hole in it, to cover the hole back up, though.


Being fulltimers means that I'll have to remount the electric service panels, cover the hole behind the batteries, and reinstall the batteries while the ram is re-sealed. The joys of RVing...


Thanks to everyone for your input. I have to evaluate myself, now, to decide if I can handle it.


Tom
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2005 Itasca Horizon 36RD: U. S. Army Retired - SFC
Life Member: MOPH, DAV, VFW, Good Sam Club, SAF, GOA
Member: NSSAR, WIT, FMCA. Full time RVers. KC5UCN
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