Who would have thought?

[AJMike]

I thought I had it all figured out. Our daily use of battery power when boondocking ranged from about 80AH to 120AH based on what time of year we are camping. In the summer our compressor refrigerator runs longer and more often than in the winter so our electric needs are higher in the summer. Fortunately the sun is higher and we get more power from solar so it all balances out. Right? Well, yes, but I never really thought out how this was going to end up working.

We converted to 2 100AH Lithium batteries a couple of months ago and I installed a Renogy DC-DC charger. At first everything was fine. We could dry camp for a couple of days even in relatively sunless locations like deep canyons where we were not allowed to use generators, and still have power when we left. I was patting myself on the back for making a great decision about those batteries, and feeling pretty good about not having to worry about power reserves any more and mentioned to my wife that we now had plenty of power and she could use her electric tea kettle and electric toaster since they were below the limits of our 1000 watt inverter.

She was thrilled. She hates the sound and smell of the generator and the BB batteries have changed the way we camp. She makes tea and coffee for breakfast, lunch and supper using the electric tea kettle instead of the stove, she uses the electric toaster for breakfast and for a snack before going to sleep and she runs fans during the day to keep the inside of the RV cool. We both love the added freedom and the cooler inside of the RV but our daily electric use has risen because of the use of all of those small appliances - 20AH for the electric tea kettle, perhaps 15AH for the toaster and perhaps 20AH for the electric fans (which don't draw much but which run for hours). That adds up to between 50 and 60AH each day during the summer.

Still not a problem, right? Well, this is July in Arizona and although we don't camp in the lower elevations (where it is often 110+ F during the day in the summer) the sun is still strong in. the mountains and we have been trying to stay in the shade. That, of course, means far less solar power and I now find us down to about 40% of power after a single day of camping, meaning that we really don't have enough to do that 2 days in a row without running the generator. Since my wife hates the sound and smell of the generator I now find myself thinking that perhaps I need one more battery.

Who would have thought? Perhaps someone thinking about the side effects of all of that extra power ...

On the other hand, camping is now much more enjoyable in the summer and I can sleep much better with air moving around in the RV so it is not all bad.

[Winterbagoal]

So, are you adding a battery, and where will it sit, and how will you recharge the 3 of them efficiently? I'd probably have have to move the 3 of them into my exterior storage compartment, aft of the side door, which would be in the same compartment as the inverter, which might actually work out OK. Then run the charging cables into it from the current location under the steps. That spot has some limited ventilation for cooling that might be expanded a bit. They would stay warmer in colder climates.
Just measured that compartment, and I could fit 4 100Ah Relions in it.

[crah]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I thought I had it all figured out. Our daily use of battery power when boondocking ranged from about 80AH to 120AH based on what time of year we are camping. In the summer our compressor refrigerator runs longer and more often than in the winter so our electric needs are higher in the summer. Fortunately the sun is higher and we get more power from solar so it all balances out. Right? Well, yes, but I never really thought out how this was going to end up working.

We converted to 2 100AH Lithium batteries a couple of months ago and I installed a Renogy DC-DC charger. At first everything was fine. We could dry camp for a couple of days even in relatively sunless locations like deep canyons where we were not allowed to use generators, and still have power when we left. I was patting myself on the back for making a great decision about those batteries, and feeling pretty good about not having to worry about power reserves any more and mentioned to my wife that we now had plenty of power and she could use her electric tea kettle and electric toaster since they were below the limits of our 1000 watt inverter.

She was thrilled. She hates the sound and smell of the generator and the BB batteries have changed the way we camp. She makes tea and coffee for breakfast, lunch and supper using the electric tea kettle instead of the stove, she uses the electric toaster for breakfast and for a snack before going to sleep and she runs fans during the day to keep the inside of the RV cool. We both love the added freedom and the cooler inside of the RV but our daily electric use has risen because of the use of all of those small appliances - 20AH for the electric tea kettle, perhaps 15AH for the toaster and perhaps 20AH for the electric fans (which don't draw much but which run for hours). That adds up to between 50 and 60AH each day during the summer.

Still not a problem, right? Well, this is July in Arizona and although we don't camp in the lower elevations (where it is often 110+ F during the day in the summer) the sun is still strong in. the mountains and we have been trying to stay in the shade. That, of course, means far less solar power and I now find us down to about 40% of power after a single day of camping, meaning that we really don't have enough to do that 2 days in a row without running the generator. Since my wife hates the sound and smell of the generator I now find myself thinking that perhaps I need one more battery.

Who would have thought? Perhaps someone thinking about the side effects of all of that extra power ...

On the other hand, camping is now much more enjoyable in the summer and I can sleep much better with air moving around in the RV so it is not all bad.

How much solar watts do you have? I think having at least 500 watts would help better even if shaded. I use pretty much electric everything and have 250 ah of lithium and 400 watts of solar. I have a compressor fridge too. Dont have any issues recharging to 100% if in sun. Shade hurts, and I think 100 watts more for me is the sweet spot and no generator use unless totally overcast.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

So, are you adding a battery, and where will it sit, and how will you recharge the 3 of them efficiently? I'd probably have have to move the 3 of them into my exterior storage compartment, aft of the side door, which would be in the same compartment as the inverter, which might actually work out OK. Then run the charging cables into it from the current location under the steps. That spot has some limited ventilation for cooling that might be expanded a bit. They would stay warmer in colder climates.
Just measured that compartment, and I could fit 4 100Ah Relions in it.

I have a 2018 Fuse and the 2 BB batteries fill up the battery compartment so I would have to put the 3rd battery in a completely different location. I was thinking about under the dinette seat in what passes for the living room in a 24' RV. The space under the seat is split into 2 separate compartments, one holding the hot water heater (which we never use) and the other a storage area. That storage area currently holds the DC-DC charger and is well ventilated with 4" holes in the front and rear panels and a small muffin fan which operates only when we are moving.

I assume there is no problem with physically separating the batteries. The dinette compartment is about 3 feet as the crow flies from the battery compartment although if the crow has to follow the wires it may be 4 ".

As for adding the extra battery, I have not yet decided. I think I have some time because right now it is not critical. Our camping has changed significantly over the past 20 years or so. We used to always camp with hook-ups, at least electricity, and now we almost always camp without them. We just returned from Bryce Canyon and we dry camped the entire trip - 2 days boondocking and 2 days at basic no frills campgrounds - one a NF campground and the other at Bryce Canyon National Park. That scenario - no utilities - is now our common way of camping.

Fortunately for me we have one additional trip scheduled before Fall and that is the only trip we make during the year where all of our stops are with utilities. We are heading to the Gulf in August and it will be far too hot to stop without AC and that means shore power. Given that we will be making this trip completely with electric power I don't have to worry about charging the batteries.

As for charging 3 batteries, I assume a 40 amp DC-DC charger will be enough since I don't expect to have to add more than 200 amps or so with 3 batteries. That is a 5 hour drive, or less with solar power. At least that is the theory.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by crah

How much solar watts do you have? I think having at least 500 watts would help better even if shaded. I use pretty much electric everything and have 250 ah of lithium and 400 watts of solar. I have a compressor fridge too. Dont have any issues recharging to 100% if in sun. Shade hurts, and I think 100 watts more for me is the sweet spot and no generator use unless totally overcast.

3 100 watt flexible panels. Two came with the Fuse and I added a 3rd because there was roof space and because I thought we would be better off with 3 than with 2 panels.

I can add a 4th panel without having to change the solar controller but more than about 400 watts (or perhaps 450 watts) would be the limit since the controller is only 30 amps.

We don't have any issues with charging either as long as we are in the sun but in the summer we want to stay in the shade to try to keep the RV interior cool. In the winter we camp in the sun, but the sun is so low in the sky that we don't get much solar power from our 3 panels.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I have a 2018 Fuse and the 2 BB batteries fill up the battery compartment so I would have to put the 3rd battery in a completely different location. I was thinking about under the dinette seat in what passes for the living room in a 24' RV. The space under the seat is split into 2 separate compartments, one holding the hot water heater (which we never use) and the other a storage area. That storage area currently holds the DC-DC charger and is well ventilated with 4" holes in the front and rear panels and a small muffin fan which operates only when we are moving.

I assume there is no problem with physically separating the batteries. The dinette compartment is about 3 feet as the crow flies from the battery compartment although if the crow has to follow the wires it may be 4 ".

If I were to do it, add 2 more, mine would sit together in that compartment between the original charging location under the steps, and right beside my inverter. It might be a chance to up the inverter size to 2000W, at the same time. Now you got me thinking.....

[AJMike]

I apolgoize.

This was supposed to be posted in the Solar thread but we just returned from a trip and perhaps I was too involved in other things to notice that I posted in the wrong forum.

If an administrator sees this post perhaps he will move this to the forum it was supposed to be at - the solar forum.

[crah]

Originally Posted by AJMike

3 100 watt flexible panels. Two came with the Fuse and I added a 3rd because there was roof space and because I thought we would be better off with 3 than with 2 panels.

I can add a 4th panel without having to change the solar controller but more than about 400 watts (or perhaps 450 watts) would be the limit since the controller is only 30 amps.

We don't have any issues with charging either as long as we are in the sun but in the summer we want to stay in the shade to try to keep the RV interior cool. In the winter we camp in the sun, but the sun is so low in the sky that we don't get much solar power from our 3 panels.

I'm not familiar with the Fuse but if it's anything like my View (which came with 200 watts of flat panels and a 30amp zamp controller) that is rated at 510 watts. I added 2 100 watt panels to the original 200 watts, and bought an additional 110 watt sunpower flat panel (not installed yet). I mostly boondock and very seldom have hookups so in the shade quite a bit as well. I dont think your 300 watts will be enough regardless of adding batteries or not. The flat panels seem less efficient as well. How many amps does your zamp controller show in full sun and partial shade?

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by crah

I'm not familiar with the Fuse but if it's anything like my View (which came with 200 watts of flat panels and a 30amp zamp controller) that is rated at 510 watts. I added 2 100 watt panels to the original 200 watts, and bought an additional 110 watt sunpower flat panel (not installed yet). I mostly boondock and very seldom have hookups so in the shade quite a bit as well. I dont think your 300 watts will be enough regardless of adding batteries or not. The flat panels seem less efficient as well. How many amps does your zamp controller show in full sun and partial shade?

I am sure your setup is just like mine - 2 100 watt flex panels (SunPower) and a 30 amp Zamp solar controller.

As for a 5th panel, I don't think I can take the chance. These SunPower flex panels are supposed to max out at something like 5.7 amps but in fact I have seen 19.9 amps from the 3 panels in full sunlight. If I can get 6.6 amps per panel than 5 panels will give me more than the 30 amps the system is designed to handle. Shade varies and there are days when I get no more than 20-30AH of solar power.

Adding a 3rd battery would just give me enough power for 2 consecutive days at any specific location and, since we never spend more than 2 consecutive days at a single location, that would then allow me to charge the batteries from the DC-DC charger when moving to our next location.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by crah

I'm not familiar with the Fuse but if it's anything like my View (which came with 200 watts of flat panels and a 30amp zamp controller) that is rated at 510 watts. I added 2 100 watt panels to the original 200 watts, and bought an additional 110 watt sunpower flat panel (not installed yet). I mostly boondock and very seldom have hookups so in the shade quite a bit as well. I dont think your 300 watts will be enough regardless of adding batteries or not. The flat panels seem less efficient as well. How many amps does your zamp controller show in full sun and partial shade?

I have a similar setup on my Navion. 300W, Zamp PWM30A CC, and with my OEM old Napa GR24 batteries, on a good sun day, the CC and panels were sending over 15A to a discharged pair of FLA batteries.

[crah]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

I have a similar setup on my Navion. 300W, Zamp PWM30A CC, and with my OEM old Napa GR24 batteries, on a good sun day, the CC and panels were sending over 15A to a discharged pair of FLA batteries.

Sounds about right. With my 400 watts I see about 20amps in full sun in Las Vegas. I've seen it go to about 22amps 1 time.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

If I were to do it, add 2 more, mine would sit together in that compartment between the original charging location under the steps, and right beside my inverter. It might be a chance to up the inverter size to 2000W, at the same time. Now you got me thinking.....

I could probably add 2 more batteries to the dinette seat cabinet as far as space is concerned, but that is where my Renogy DC-DC charger lives and I am not sure it is a good idea to put a Lithium battery in the same storage location as the charger. As far as I know the batteries are sealed and don't leak any combustible fumes but mixing an electrical device like the charger and a battery might not be the best of ideas.

I guess I need to check with Battle Born and see what they say before I do anything stupid (again).

[creativepart]

Two options... make that three:

• Get 200 or so watts of portable solar panels you can set out in the sun
• Head to the forests above Durango, Colorado where the elevation is above 8000'
• Buy a portable Honda generator that you can set off away from your site (and others) and use it during the day to charge the batteries you have.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by crah

Sounds about right. With my 400 watts I see about 20amps in full sun in Las Vegas. I've seen it go to about 22amps 1 time.

That makes me wonder.

3 of my panels have given me as much as 19.9 amps and usually, in full sun, about 16-17 amps in the summer around noon. I assume the sun strength in Las Vegas is about the same as here in southern Arizona so why do I see more output current than you? 5 panels have the potential of blowing out my 30 amp solar controller.

What brand of solar panels do you have?

[crah]

Originally Posted by AJMike

That makes me wonder.

3 of my panels have given me as much as 19.9 amps and usually, in full sun, about 16-17 amps in the summer around noon. I assume the sun strength in Las Vegas is about the same as here in southern Arizona so why do I see more output current than you? 5 panels have the potential of blowing out my 30 amp solar controller.

What brand of solar panels do you have?

I have sunpower panels both the 200 watts oem and the 2 new panels. I've tested all of them independently with a multi meter with the panels faced directly angled at the sun. Either though they say high efficiency, they can't perform better than the solid panels. Many YouTube videos on this.

As for why you are getting such great efficiency, I'm not sure. Yes Vegas sun is pretty identical to southern AZ. Your 30amp controller is a "nominal" measurement. If you go on Zamps website, it will tell you that it is rated at 510 watts which is why I got the full 510 watts of panels. Your zamp controller may/may not be completely accurate? I wouldn't see any issues adding on the additional panels as that is following the total wattage that zamp is specifying in their literature.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by crah

I have sunpower panels both the 200 watts oem and the 2 new panels. I've tested all of them independently with a multi meter with the panels faced directly angled at the sun. Either though they say high efficiency, they can't perform better than the solid panels. Many YouTube videos on this.

As for why you are getting such great efficiency, I'm not sure. Yes Vegas sun is pretty identical to southern AZ. Your 30amp controller is a "nominal" measurement. If you go on Zamps website, it will tell you that it is rated at 510 watts which is why I got the full 510 watts of panels. Your zamp controller may/may not be completely accurate? I wouldn't see any issues adding on the additional panels as that is following the total wattage that zamp is specifying in their literature.

I also have 3 SunPower panels.

I was not expecting them to be more efficient than the rigid panels. The flexible panels are known to be less resilient and they only have a 5 year warranty as compared to the 10 year warranty for the rigid panels. In fact I queried one of the local installers about mounting one of the 200 watt rigid panels on top of one of the flexible panels as one way to upgrade the wattage of my panels.

I suppose that the Zamp solar controller could be wrong in reporting 19.9 amps from 3 panels and, if so, then I could theoretically add 2 more panels, but I could accomplish the same thing by adding one 200 watt rigid panel to the current 3 flexible panels. Hard to know what is the best way to proceed.

[crah]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I also have 3 SunPower panels.

I was not expecting them to be more efficient than the rigid panels. The flexible panels are known to be less resilient and they only have a 5 year warranty as compared to the 10 year warranty for the rigid panels. In fact I queried one of the local installers about mounting one of the 200 watt rigid panels on top of one of the flexible panels as one way to upgrade the wattage of my panels.

I suppose that the Zamp solar controller could be wrong in reporting 19.9 amps from 3 panels and, if so, then I could theoretically add 2 more panels, but I could accomplish the same thing by adding one 200 watt rigid panel to the current 3 flexible panels. Hard to know what is the best way to proceed.

When I added my 2 new panels, I really contemplated adding rigid panels instead. I didnt go that route due to several reasons. 1. I didnt want to mix panel types. 2. The rigid panel will likely be higher voltage and you should try to keep the same voltage. 3. RV was new and already had 2 new panels from factory. 4. Flex panels are lighter and weight is always an issue in these type of RV's.

I don't think there is any perfect way. Sunpower flex panels are quite expensive compared to the rigid panels though.

Maxing out 30amps with 500 watts of solar is at best in very optimal conditions. I'm still surprised you are getting 19 amps with 300 watts. I would be very happy with those numbers. I'm assuming your panels are correctly fused at the roof? Adding the inline fuse will drop the voltage as well. I read Winn had a recall on their solar panels a while back due to improper fuse (not having fuses at all). Not sure what years they had that issue.

[crah]

Sunpower also has the 170 watt flex panel. Quite expensive but if you are concerned about exceeding the charge controller limits.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by crah

When I added my 2 new panels, I really contemplated adding rigid panels instead. I didnt go that route due to several reasons. 1. I didnt want to mix panel types. 2. The rigid panel will likely be higher voltage and you should try to keep the same voltage. 3. RV was new and already had 2 new panels from factory. 4. Flex panels are lighter and weight is always an issue in these type of RV's.

When I added the 3rd panel I added the flexible SunPower panel because it matched the existing panels and so almost looked like they were all OEM panels. The cost was quite reasonable - $300 installed as I recall - and I have appreciated the extra charging power.

Originally Posted by crah

I read Winn had a recall on their solar panels a while back due to improper fuse (not having fuses at all). Not sure what years they had that issue.

As I recall that issue had to do with a missing fuse for the extra plugin for portable panels, not for the roof panels, and not all Winnie RVs had the issue. We have a 2018 Fuse and I expected to get a recall notice for that issue but never did, so I assume our Fuse has the inline fuse. Not that I have ever really wanted to add a portable panel as I have no place to safely store it when traveling and I just don't want to be bothered by unloading and then loading one more thing at each stop. The chairs and table are quite enough.

[JLUSoCal]

Just a thought but what about swapping to a 40 amp MPPT and seeing if MPPT is enough efficiency before adding more panels or just one more. I don't know how much more efficient MPPT is but I think it would help and in the shade likely the most?

All above might be ignorant but thought I'd throw it out there.