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Old 10-28-2021, 08:31 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
The Victron CerboGX and Touch display are fantastic but not absolutely necessary and are pretty expensive. Plus they could be added at a later date easily.

Since your less expensive option has none of this same capability it’s not a fair price comparison.
Except in a tt, if you want those it would be much easier to install at the beginning because you’re already going to cut two holes in the floor and route cable or conduit and loom. But I guess later you can pull more wires through the same loom.
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Old 10-28-2021, 09:49 AM   #42
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I had called Winnebago and they are checking the wire size and will email me.. not sure how long that will take.

I had included the Victron CerboGX because it has the following listed with the Inverter/charger info.... When coupled with a GX device (or bluetooth module) you can monitor and control your multi from our free Victronconnect app. I didn't see the bluetooth module listed (guessing that you have to purchase this module?).
I do agree that the Victron Energy GX Touch 50, Panels and System Monitoring was extra but thought that is basically what ties it all together but thinking more I guess you could do that from phone as well.

Would I have to buy this as well??
Victron Energy Interface MK3-USB (VE.Bus to USB) - The VE Interface MK3-USB allows you to configure and update your firmware

Thanks again
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Old 10-28-2021, 10:00 AM   #43
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Creativepart will know the answer to that one.
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Old 10-28-2021, 11:11 AM   #44
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Would I have to buy this as well??
Victron Energy Interface MK3-USB (VE.Bus to USB) - The VE Interface MK3-USB allows you to configure and update your firmware
Possibly. I'm not sure. It seems some of Victron stuff is bluetooth and some is VE. Bus. He mentions some of this stuff.

Here's a new video from YouTube of an RVer with a 5th wheel that just installed ALL of this including the CerboGX and the display.

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Old 10-28-2021, 12:35 PM   #45
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Thank you for sharing the youtube link... I think I am going to have to watch that several times.

This just seems like so much more than I would need. I understand for full time RV but I don't know how much this would benefit me.. All the different connections that need to be made and I don't know the skill level of my mobile repair man. I don't have internet in my travel trailer and if I do the LTE addon is that another line that I would need to add to my current service or a whole new service (I haven't checked into this). I thought initially (way back at start) maybe I could run AC or Microwave with battery power but as you all quickly pointed out that it is not realistic with my setup. I will be running Fridge, lights, fans, tv, pump, furnace fan.
I will check out some other Youtube videos... Thank you again for the time you are taking to guide me through this process - much appreciated.
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Old 10-28-2021, 01:14 PM   #46
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A good fall back position right now would be to get the travel trailer and go camping. You're in PA so that may not be 'til next Spring, but real world experience before making alterations is usually time well spent.

Look at it this way... you have learned a ton.

If you've already ordered the new batteries just get them installed and stick with the OEM solar that your TT already has. Install that $40 battery monitor and go use the heck out of that thing.

You'll be surprised how capable everything is right out of the box.
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Old 10-28-2021, 02:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
A good fall back position right now would be to get the travel trailer and go camping. You're in PA so that may not be 'til next Spring, but real world experience before making alterations is usually time well spent.
That is a good point and certainly an option... I am guessing that I would still need some type of inverter or none of my AC will work. I think that would be laptops and TV basically. I am also not sure if the stock charge controller will have an option to charge lithium batteries.
I think I will still view some more basic Victron installations to see if there is a lesser system that I could install.
The one thing about the upgrade was that I was planning to do a tax write-off for the 26% rebate on solar so that does make the Victron price only 750 more than getting the Xantrex inverter/charger system and that includes the display. Watching that youtube video does seem like a crazy amount of technical stuff involved with the plugs and the VE.bus and need for internet to view some of the information.
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Old 10-28-2021, 02:35 PM   #48
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Yes,
No matter what, you will have to replace your (I’m sure you meant) converter/charger once you install your two SOKs. Either you install a programmable converter/charger like progressive (in which case you’ve got to buy and install even more gear) or go straight to an inverter/charger. That’s a no brainer IMO. There is no cost savings to taking a the shortcut.
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Old 11-01-2021, 10:21 AM   #49
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One thing that has not been emphasized enough in my opinion is wire sizing.



Lots of battery and solar installs have not worked up to their potential because the installer did not install large enough wire size for the length of wire and the amount of current the wire will carry.



I strongly suggest you use a wire size calculator such as: https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html I also suggest you size your wire for a 1% loss or less. A lot of folks use 2% to 3% loss, but the extra cost to go up in wire size to reach 1% loss is minimal compared to the overall cost of your system.



Be sure to note that for wire size and voltage loss measurements it is the "round trip" distance, not just the distance from one component to the other one. Some calculators automatically calculate round trip others don't.



DO NOT depend on the Mobile Tech to determine the wire size w/o your input and consultation. You need to do the research yourself to confirm you are getting what you want.



Here are some links to articles dealing with RV solar and batteries that are well worth reading and understanding. These articles are somewhat dated, but the basic info is excellent.



-- This one is from a rather opinionated person, but the advice is well worth reviewing: https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/



-- Lots of great info in this one: RV Electrical



-- This one is pretty basic, but has a very good overview of RV electrical, batteries and solar. Well worth reading even if to just review what you already know. Be sure to click on the link to the second section at the end of the first section. The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
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Old 11-01-2021, 10:37 AM   #50
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Agree with Al,
If you mount an inverter/charger right next to your batteries, the wire run will be very short. Using 1/0 awg voltage loss will be negligible. Custom lengths of 1/0 cable with pre-installed terminals don’t cost much more than lesser wire like 2 or 4 awg. It is a little more difficult to bend, so try to make your wire run as straight as possible. I also strongly recommend you give an inverter/charger it’s own disconnect switch, so you can take it out of the circuit if you want. When I’m boondocking, I disconnect the inverter unless I need shore access power for a short period or using generator to recharge. This prevents standby drain. You can use terminal fuse blocks to complete the circuit.
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Old 11-01-2021, 10:45 AM   #51
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About using the microwave:


-- As others wrote, a microwave pulls lots of current from your batteries, around 140 amps of 12V. So trying to "cook" with the microwave is usually not workable from battery. However we use ours quite to heat water, bake a potato, defrost or pretty much anything that only uses high power for 3-8 minutes or so.



-- Instant pots work quite well off of battery. It takes a bit of battery power to heat them up and bring it up to pressure, but once at full pressure they are pretty efficient.





DC to DC converter: The 12V wire from your TV alternator/battery to the batteries in the trailer is probably no larger than10 gauge an may be only 12 gauge. With around 20 or more feet of wire you won't be getting much power to your battery. The voltage loss is much to great to do much charging. You want around 14V or more, measured at your batteries, to get much current into the batteries. If you were to install 4 gauge wire and installing both the positive and negative wires, then you will be able to charge your batteries quite well and you may need to install the DC to DC converter to keep from overloading the alternator. Check it out with a wire size calculator and be sure to allow for the round trip distance.
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Old 11-01-2021, 03:10 PM   #52
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mrlichty,

Here is the link my DC to DC charger install if you are still considering that option. This setup has worked very well for us, with both our current Tundra and our previous Tacoma tow vehicles (TV). The Renogy 20 amp DC to DC charger pulls 26 amps at the TV battery and provides the full 20 amp output to our lithium batteries in the Micro Minnie as we travel. I haven't seen any change in the TV voltage with or without the DC to DC charger engaged. I constantly monitor TV voltage, transmission temperature and other parameters using an Ultragauge scan tool.
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Old 11-01-2021, 11:19 PM   #53
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I have a solitude 310 gk and in it I installed a multiplus II along with a smart shunt and 100/50 charge controller , all by Victron and 600 watts of solar panels ran in series/parallel on 10 guage wire . I am very happy with this system . we have soft starts on the A/C's but dont actually use them to much . We dont charge off the tow vehicle . We do have a 5500 Onan back up genny but it rarely sees any use either . I cant say enough positive about the victron equipment , it is way smarter than I am . We run the whole 5er off battery/solar (with residential fridge) for as long as our tanks hold out often the MK-3/usb is what you use to initally set up the multiplus II as it has to be done on a laptop first . You can then monitor/make chages off of your smart phone via bluetooth . Using the victron connect app , you can monitor all aspects , at any time (as long as you are within appropriate distance ) which makes it very nice . I would highly suggest you watch Jared Gillis on you tube ( All about RVS ) he has very detailed videos on everything that you have asked about , well worth the 6 or 8 hours you will spend watching them (that is just for the solar related videos ) another great resource is Arizona Wind and Sun , their prices are competitive , the selection great , and the tech support after the sale is outstanding . hope this helps you out . There are many ways to make a great system and there are many ways to purchase expensive JUNK
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Old 11-02-2021, 05:42 AM   #54
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Hi al1florida,
Thank you for adding to the conversation.

I have been tied up the last couple of days but I did scan through your posts and I will definitely be looking into this more. I appreciate this and not knowing the mobile repair man I want to know as much as possible to help make sure what he is doing is correct.

Fred and Jim - thank you
I am not sure that I will be adding the dc to dc charger at this time but will look over your suggested install more and possibly consider that in the future.
The All about RV's sounds familiar and I will check it out to make sure that I watched them. I have seen dozens of youtube videos so I am not positive.

Thank you all for the input.
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Old 11-12-2021, 09:58 PM   #55
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Hello everyone - thanks to those who has made suggestions... I was supposed to have the trailer by now but it has been pushed back unit Tuesday of next week.
I am ready to wrap up my order with several changes mainly going with Victron. I updated below.

NOTE: there was a suggestion by Jim811 about Arizona wind and sun who I called and was very impressed with the person I talked to and we had a good understanding of my plan. He was going to send me a quote for the items we talked about. I then also called Battleborn who had the Victron units as well. Other than having to admit that I already purchased the SOK batteries and him telling me that was one of the few that he couldn't bash too bad he was great to work with and while still on the phone had a quote to me. We tweaked it a little but I was happy with the price and they would have technical support if my repair tech has any issues. Unfortunately after a day I hadn't received a quote from Arizona wind and sun so I called them back to make sure my email was correct. The person I talked to instead of putting me through to the first rep took installation information again and came back with a quote that wasn't what I was looking for. I emailed him back about the first rep but didn't receive any email back for over a week and the 2nd guy asked me to explain again. So I am going with Battleborn.

1. DONE Inverter 2,000w or more - Victron Energy MultiPlus 3000VA 12-Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter 120 amp Battery Charger
1a. Victron Energy SmartShunt 500 amp Battery Monitor (Bluetooth)
1b. Victron Energy Interface MK3-USB (VE.Bus to USB)
1c. Victron Energy Cerbo GX, Panels and System Monitoring
1d. Victron Energy GX Touch 50, Panels and System Monitoring (Waterproof)
1e. Victron Energy VE.Bus Smart Dongle (Bluetooth)
1f. 2 30' extension cords for power from SP to inverter and back to breaker panel box.
2. DONE - Batteries - the more amp hours the better - I have 2 - SOK 206ah batteries. I also ordered the Battery monitor 100v 350amps (don't need that now) part of the tip for repair man.
3. NOT USING DC to DC charger from the alternator to the batteries - I think I will just disconnect the wire in the trailer plug and not worry about this method for charging at this time
4.DONE Solar panels - as much as will fit - we are planning to add 3 - 180 watt panels BougeRV to give us a total of 730 watts QUESTION TO FOLLOW
5. DONE MPPT Solar Charge Controller - Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT 100V 50 amp 12/24-Volt Solar Charge Controller (Bluetooth)
6.DONE - Wire, fuses, circuit breakers - mobile tech will supply
7. DONE - Electrical work to connect the inverter to specific circuits in the RV - mobile tech will supply and do
8. GOING WITH INVERTER/CONVERTER COMBO UNIT - Lithium capable Converter/Charger in the RV

So there is the plan.. went heavy on the Victron from many of your suggestions and my youtube research.

So a question about the solar... I read through all the posts here again and have looked at a solar calculator.
Going with my current plan I will have 3x180W BougeRV and the 1 190w GoPower that comes on the trailer GoPower

1st Solar Panel Spec
Voltage (Vmp)*
18
Current (Imp)*
10
Quantity*
3
2nd Solar Panel Spec
Voltage (Vmp)*
20.4
Current (Imp)*
9.45
Quantity*
1

RESULTS

All panels wired in series
Volts
74
Amps
9.45
Total Power
700 W
Loss %
4 %
All panels wired in parallel
Volts
18
Amps
39
Total Power
702 W
Loss %
4 %
Mixed configuration - Each spec wired in Series, then all wired together in Parallel
Volts
20.4
Amps
19
Total Power
388 W
Loss %
47 %
Mixed configuration - Each spec wired in Parallel, then all wired together in Series
Volts
38
Amps
9.45
Total Power
360 W
Loss %
50 %

So to my uneducated knowledge in solar looking at this - the all panels wired in series seems to make the most sense? The volts are high which means the smaller wire (I think it is 10 but Winnebago and the salesman haven't been able to answer that). The salesman gave my phone number to the Winnebago rep today so he could call me direct.
Am I wrong with this?

Thank you for checking this out.
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Old 11-13-2021, 05:11 AM   #56
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Well, I am not a fan of having four panels wired in series. When the batteries are full they will be at more like 84 volts. That and 10 amps can kill you if you are not careful. Please tell anyone who works on the solar electrical that they are wired that way.

I would prefer wiring them in series/parallel. The voltage drop would be about 0.6V with a 15' cable run. Wiring them all in parallel would cause the voltage drop to double which is probably too much.

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Old 11-13-2021, 05:38 AM   #57
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I'm confused about your numbers for the "mixed configuration solar panels".


If you wire the 2 solar panels in the front of the trailer in series and then down to a combiner box and then do the same with the 2 panels in the rear you will wind up with the equivalent of 2 large 360 watt panels wired in parallel at the combiner box with a voltage of about 38-39 volts for a total wattage of around 700-720 watts.


Do you know for sure if your solar panels have bypass diodes?


If they don't have bypass diodes, and you wire all panels in series, if you shade only one small section of one panel you lose almost all the power from all 4 panels.

BTW, if your panels do have bypass diodes I would test them to see just how well the bypass diodes work.

To test I would lay the panels on the ground in the sun, wire a pair of panels in series, then to the controller and then to a battery about 50% discharged. Now cover one small section, then 1/2 of one panel, then the whole panel and see how the power changes.

I have read and also viewed tests (and also tested on my panels) showing just how much power is lost by shading just a small section of a panel, w/o bypass diodes, (it is a huge amount) however I have never seen a test showing just how much loss is seen for panels with bypass diodes. BTW if anyone has a link to testing shading affects for panels with bypass diodes I would love to see (read) the test results.



Before you disconnect the 12V power wire from the TV to the trailer I would test to see just how much power you do get to the batteries. Even if you only get 5 or 10 amps, that adds up over a 4-8 hour travel day. Because of the small size of the wire and the long length of the wire you will never get a lot of charging power to the batteries. Every little bit helps on cloudy days.
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Old 11-13-2021, 06:41 AM   #58
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Before you disconnect the 12V power wire from the TV to the trailer I would test to see just how much power you do get to the batteries. Even if you only get 5 or 10 amps, that adds up over a 4-8 hour travel day. Because of the small size of the wire and the long length of the wire you will never get a lot of charging power to the batteries. Every little bit helps on cloudy days.
With a big lithium battery bank connected to pin #4 of the trailer connector I would be worried about pulling too much current if the batteries are discharged significantly. That circuit is typically protected by a 30A fuse in your TV which could blow. The long run of #10 gauge may limit the current though. If you want to try it, measure the current with the batteries discharged. You want to keep the current below about 25 amps.

Here is where a 20A DC to DC charger can help by limiting current from the TV in low discharge situations but continuing to supply the full 20A when the batteries get more full.

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Old 11-13-2021, 07:39 AM   #59
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I spent the last 1/2 hour trying to figure out how to edit my last post but wasn't able to do that - if you know how please advise me.

First I think the calculator didn't do the math correctly since I would have 3 of the 180w and one of the 190w so I ran the numbers again using 4 of the 180w solar panels. I didn't understand how they were getting those numbers so I appreciate that others didn't seem to think it was correct.

Here are the updated numbers with the 4 - 180 panels

Total power output from panels
720 Watts
All panels wired in series
Volts
72
Amps
10
Total Power
720 W
Loss %
0 %
All panels wired in parallel
Volts
18
Amps
40
Total Power
720 W
Loss %
0 %
Mixed configuration - Each spec wired in Series, then all wired together in Parallel
Volts
36
Amps
20
Total Power
720 W
Loss %
0 %
Mixed configuration - Each spec wired in Parallel, then all wired together in Series
Volts
36
Amps
20
Total Power
720 W
Loss %
0 %

So wiring in series/parallel seems to be my best option so the wiring will be able to carry the 20amps with 36 volts

I did check and they do have the bypass diodes - thanks for having me double check that.

The DC to DC charger - the way I travel now while I am still working is a couple hour drive and then spend time at the campsite (either a weekend or a max 9 days) then come home. So I leave with a full battery and return home. I do plan to upgrade my TV to a 2500 before I start taking longer and extended trips so at that time I will check into this more.
Thanks for the replies
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Old 11-01-2022, 09:27 AM   #60
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"Before you make final decisions, you should look close at the 2000w Victron inverter/charger. The great thing about Victron is all their devices talk to each other over the same app. If I had it to do ver again, probably would have spent a bit more to get the Victron inverter. Love my Xantrex, but Victron is better."

I know I am late to the party but if you are comparing Victron to Xantrex, be sure to look at the actual spec's. I am in the process of upgrading my TT and was building an all Victron system until I ran into one very important fact. The Victron 2000 or 3000 units are NOT watts, they are Voltamps. If you look at the spec's, there is a big difference. Here is an example:

Xantex 2000:
Continuous Power 2000 W @40ºC True sine wave

Victron 2000:
Cont. output power at 40°C 1400 W
And it appears the Victron only puts out a max of 1600W

Cont. output power at 25°C 2000 VA
Cont. output power at 25°C 1600 W

The Victron 3000 (Voltamps) unit is also very similar:

Cont. output power at 25ºC / 77°F (VA) 3000
Cont. output power at 25ºC / 77°F (W) 2400
Cont. output power at 40ºC / 104°F (W) 2200

So, the Victron 3000 is actually more comparable to the Xantex 2000.

So, comparing Victron to Xantex, the Victron units actually "invert" less watts. An interesting part is the Victron appears to be "beefier" as it weighs a lot more!
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