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Old 10-26-2021, 12:19 PM   #21
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You want an inverter with an automatic transfer switch. That way when you plug into shore power the inverter automatically just passes through the shore power and you do not need to remember to turn it off.

As far as that reviewer you quoted - it makes no sense to me. He stated his inverter automatically started charging his batteries when plugged into shore power. So, explain how he could "drain his batteries and ruin them" when they were simultaneously being charged by the charger in the inverter?

Anyway... I looked at the model you listed above and found that it does have an automatic transfer switch built in. That's good. And in the product's features it contradicts the reviewer that you copied about with the statement:

Quote:
Ignition Control: Feature to turn inverter on/off via a 12 VDC signal and to minimize battery drain by switching the inverter off when the ignition key is turned off
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Old 10-26-2021, 12:28 PM   #22
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As DavidM noted... it's likely that you have 10ga wiring from the roof to the solar controller. 10ga wire is appropriate for no more than 30-amps of power. 30-amps is approximately 420w of solar. So, if you plan over 400w of total solar your wiring would not be considered adequate.

Also, in general, Winnebago has been installing PWM solar charge controllers limited to 30-amps of solar panels. These are 12v nominal chargers and do not accommodate higher voltages. So, wiring solar panels in series or series/parallel to achieve higher voltages to accommodate lighter gauge wiring is not an option.

Of course, I, and you at this point, don't know exactly what solar charge controller you have on your yet to be delivered travel trailer.

Once your trailer arrives then you can make those final decisions about the total wattage of your panels and decide about keeping the stock controller or replacing it with a MPPT control so you can utilize other wiring layouts.
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Old 10-26-2021, 01:34 PM   #23
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That is the correct model for the Xantrex.
If this model harmed someone’s battery it’s because they did not read the instructions on how to set it up. It’s always dangerous if you don’t RTFI. Whoever complained about the auto ignition feature (which is a valuable feature for motorized owners) probably couldn’t screw in a light bulb properly and it’s understandable why Xantrex offered no remedy. The setup instructions are very clear (even for a bozo like me). You have to set up several things in the menu via the panel or via Bluetooth. You must select ignition auto on or off. Mine arrive with the default of off. On is only if you have a motorized rv and you want to start your engine with the inverter. The other option you must select is the charge amperage and battery type.

The Xantrex has a SP pass through, so you don’t have to be connected to battery when you plug in your SP. The inverter will sense this and switch itself on in milliseconds.

In answer to your inquiry about routing of ac cable to/from inverter, the answer is yes. SP goes direct to inverter on one cable, and the return cable gets wired to either main breaker or another ac breaker of your choosing. If you don’t want your roof A/C to be able to receive power from the inverter, you’d have to add a separate breaker for the A/C. Please note the Xantrex Bluetooth remote panel costs extra, and should be wired through a loom to cabin through the same route as the ac cables. I mounted my remote panel under sink in the entryway near fire extinguisher.
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Old 10-27-2021, 06:57 AM   #24
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Thank you again for replies

Marine - in one post you said about rv extension cord - you mentioned shielded
I have been looking and not sure if most of the extension cords are shielded but not listed?
I was looking at this one which has very good reviews
https://www.amazon.com/95707508-Exte...dp/B00ARZZ1P2/

I have looked at many different ones but none list shielded. I was going to get 2 30' because the box is 25ft and I was worried that cutting the 50ft cord might leave us a little short.
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Old 10-27-2021, 07:18 AM   #25
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Just a regular 30amp rv cord works. Sorry, By shielded, I mean it needs to be rubber clad and durable. I don’t see the one I bought on Amazon anymore, but I think it was $75. 50ft was more than enough for my rig. Remember the other option is Romex through conduit. Depending on who’s going to do the work, one may be cheaper than the other, but both will work. Fred 2106 used conduit.
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Old 10-27-2021, 08:35 AM   #26
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Thanks Marine - I figured that would be OK but wanted to make sure.

So here is where I am now - going with the suggested Inverter/charger.

You will need: (suggestion underlined)
1. DONE Inverter 2,000w or more - Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 817-2080 Power InverterI - want to go with the converter/inverter auto switch type. I have been seeing a lot about Magnum and Victron. I would like something that has a decent remote display with good information. Does anyone have a suggestion they think would be good? With my solar plans is the 2000w good or should I go a little higher? Our trailer has a convection microwave that we would like to be able to run off batteries for meals.
1a. also adding Xantrex 808-0817-01 Remote Control for Freedom X and XC
1b. 2 30' extension cords for power from SP to inverter and back to breaker panel box.
2. DONE - Batteries - the more amp hours the better - I have ordered the 2 - SOK 206ah batteries. I also ordered the Battery monitor 100v 350amps
3. DC to DC charger from the alternator to the batteries - I have heard the charging from tow vehicle is so minimal is this worth it? If I don’t do anything here will that be a problem for the alternator?
4. Solar panels - as much as will fit - we are planning to add 3 - 200 watt panels to give us a total of 790 watts Not sure of the type yet
5. MPPT Solar Charge Controller - again victron is something I often see. Should this be the same brand as converter/inverter?
6.DONE - Wire, fuses, circuit breakers - mobile tech will supply
7. DONE - Electrical work to connect the inverter to specific circuits in the RV - mobile tech will supply and do
8. GOING WITH INVERTER/CONVERTER COMBO UNIT - Lithium capable Converter/Charger in the RV

So I only have to determine:
The MPPT charge controller
The solar panels
If the trailer has a quick connect on roof is that for only one set of wires? I know there are splitters to bring 2 or more panels together. The trailer advertises solar on side prepped but in all the videos I never saw a place where you would plug a panel into the side of the trailer.
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:43 AM   #27
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Some thoughts:

One concern I would have with hooking up that big Li bank to the TV's #4 pin on the 7 pin connector is when the Li batteries are well discharged they could pull more than 30 amps from that circuit and blow the TV fuse. I realize that a heavy current of 30A will cause a big voltage drop. But if the alternator is putting out 14 volts even with a 1 volt drop I think the current pulled by the Li batteries may exceed 30A.

Another issue is how you wire your panels to work well with what I expect is #10 wire from the roof down to the controller. I would wire four in series/parallel to minimize voltage drop or even six with three in series and two pairs of three in parallel. This means all panels must be of the same wattage and you can only do this with even numbers of panels.

Finally solar controllers are usually rated in the amperage that they can deliver to the batteries. So a 50A solar controller can deliver about 50 x 13 = 650 watts which is roughly the maximum wattage of panels a 50A controller can support.

David
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:47 AM   #28
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A couple of times above you mention "converter/inverter" and I think you might have the names of these devices confused.

I don't believer that there is such a thing as a converter/inverter.

Are you meaning inverter/charger?

Converters do different functions than inverters. And in many applications the inverter/charger replaces the converter, though it doesn't necessarily have to.

So, could you please explain your meaning with the term "converter/inverter".
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:03 AM   #29
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Before you make final decisions, you should look close at the 2000w Victron inverter/charger. The great thing about Victron is all their devices talk to each other over the same app. If I had it to do ver again, probably would have spent a bit more to get the Victron inverter. Love my Xantrex, but Victron is better.

For that much solar, you may need a 100/50 charge controller. Remember when panels are wired in parallel amperage is additive and voltage stays the same. Check the max amperage for the panels you’re planning to buy and add the output amperage. Could be you can just get a 100/30. I dunno from my seat. Again Victron has a compatible Bluetooth model. Also note that if your trailer has 10awg wiring from the roof, the max amperage it can carry is 30 amps. Some of the newer trailers from WBGO have 8awg wire which can carry 40 amps. Swapping out the wire from the roof could prove troublesome, so check with WBGO first. The maximum wire size for Victron charge controllers terminals is 6 awg, but stranded wire won’t fit. I went with 6 awg twisted from fuse block to battery (bus bar) and used a loom to protect the thinner casing of twisted. I found bus bars made my install easier and neater, but you don’t have to use them. But do get a disconnect switch for the inverter. This I in addition to your battery disconnect. An inverter disconnect allows you to take the inverter completely out of the circuit while the battery is still connect; useful for boondocking and travel days IMHO.

Don’t forget to buy a Bluetooth negative shunt battery monitor. Again, Victron makes two models, one with remote panel and one without. The one with remote panel has a longer range. I have the other cheaper one. It has a range of about 10ft.

I didn’t trust myself to make my own 1/0 cable and crimp the terminals. The wire is very thick, and the crimping equipment is expensive. I found it less hassle to order it in the lenghts I wanted with the terminals I wanted pre-installed: from BatteryCablesUSA.

To protect your wires and guard against a short killing your battery, you need the proper size fuses. For 10awg wire, you need a 30amp fuse. You can buy inline fuses, but note in my install that I routed charge controller to a fuse block and used 30amp fuse in the block. I found this more convenient because I’m installing two 12v/usb outlets on both sides of the bed where a human can actually reach them. Wires for these go down thru the lower cabinets and connect to the fuse block.
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
the TV's #4 pin on the 7 pin connector is when the Li batteries are well discharged they could pull more than 30 amps from that circuit and blow the TV fuse.
I am also worried about that and asked about that in #3.
Is there something that I could do to make sure there isn't an issue if I don't get a DC to DC charger? Many seem to think it isn't necessary to get this because of limited charging but I am not sure how to make it safe?

My solar plan is - the trailer has one 190w panel and I was thinking/planning to add 3 - 200w panels in order to have 790 total.
I didn't know for sure about the parallel and serial combinations so that it isn't too much. I also wasn't sure if there was more than one set of plugs in the roof mount so that there wasn't too much for the 1 wire. I was told that adding the 200w and putting with the 190w wasn't a problem - is that a problem?

creative - I have seen it called many things but I am sure I am calling it the wrong thing. My thinking was it replaces the converter and an inverter so it must be called both... but I am sure you are correct that it is an inverter/charger.
Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 817-2080 Power Inverter

Thank you again for your time
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:14 AM   #31
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If you want two panels in parallel, just buy a 2 panel parallel mc4 combiner. Panels plug into one end, and the other end plugs into the mc4 in the gland.
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:34 AM   #32
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It might be helpful to understand parallel and serial wiring in general. This applies to batteries and to solar panels both.

When you connect two 12v batteries (or solar panels) in Parallel you connect the positive terminal or wire of one to the positive terminal of the other and this combines the amperage output. So, two 12v 100amp batteries wired in Parallel make one 12v 200amp battery bank.

Same would be true for solar panels. 2-100w solar panels wired in Parallel equals 200w.

When batteries or solar panels are wired in Series the positive terminal of one battery is wired to the negative of the other battery and so on. This combines the voltage of the two batteries but not the amperage.

So, two 6v 200 amp batteries wired in Series makes one battery bank of 12v and 200 amps.

For solar panels it works the same. Solar panels put out 18v to 21v in full sun. So 2-100w solar panels wired in Series still puts out 100w but the voltage is doubled so the two panels combined would put out about 40v.

The reasons someone would chose to wire things in Series rather than Parallel is because when the voltage is higher the wire gauge needed to connect them to the charge controller is greatly reduced.

To confuse things just a big further... with solar panels. Lets say you have 4 panels. You can connect sets of two of them in Series to increase the voltage and then connect the two sets together in Parallel to increase the wattage output. This would be called a Series/Parallel wiring scheme.

With a PWM solar charge controller these things do not apply as they are 12v (battery voltage actually) devices. But with a MPPT charge controller you can purchase them with specific voltage allowances built in. For instance, a 100/50 MPPT control will accept up to 100v and 50 amps of solar panels.

This was supposed to clear things up on the two terms but I'm not sure it does.
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:39 AM   #33
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I wanted to make sure I am looking at your suggested Victron unit.
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-12-20...dp/B0053XY8NY/
This unit is $430 more expensive (which I don't mind spending) but is the main thing that it communicates better or is it a better overall unit as well?

I bought the SOK batter monitor they offered (only if you bought their battery) This is what you are referring to about the shunt correct?
https://www.sokbattery.com/products/...r-100v-350amps

I admit I haven't done enough research about the solar panels yet... with 4 panels (190 and 3 x 200) could you have 2 serial then combine that into 2 parallel to make it work if the trailer has the 10 wire as expected?
Where will I be able to find out the size of that wire?
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:53 AM   #34
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The Victron MultiPlus inverter/chargers have better features and they have the best smartphone/tablet app. Plus, they communicate with other victron devices. But they are more expensive - and physically larger, as well so that should be considered.

That shunt is the correct kind, it's just very limited in it's functionality. But on the other hand it's $100 cheaper than the least expensive Victron. The difference is the Victron has bluetooth built in and you can use it with a phone/tablet to control it and read a history of how the batteries are charging and discharging.

The SOK doesn't really offer any of that. Just a snapshot of the batteries state of charge right now.
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:53 AM   #35
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Yes I think that is the right inverter/charger. However, I’ve never owned one and don’t know if Bluetooth is built-in. People swear by this unit. But as far as could see, the features of both the Victron and the Xantrex are very similar, and you do have to spend another $77 for the Xantrex remote panel. Without it, you have no Bluetooth. I dunno, like I said I’m happy with mine, but if I had a do over, probably would have switched.

The SOK shunt is a negative shunt monitor. However, keep in mind it doesn’t buy you any extra compatibility for the batteries, and it doesn’t have Bluetooth. The Victron smart shunt costs $120 and talks on the same app with all Victron smart charge controllers, and with the inverter/charger. Very cool. The Bluetooth connection on my Xantrex gets dropped when I. Out of range, and has to be re-initiated. The Victron shunt and charge controllers pick up where you left off when you come back into range and they keep history
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Old 10-27-2021, 11:49 AM   #36
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The solar explanation was extremely helpful - thanks

Funny I am so into bells and whistles - love the color display but...
After spending a decent amount of money to buy a new trailer and then deciding to upgrade the solar and know that I will be at >$5000 after I am done. I really have to think about saving $500-600 if I can and get the same system functions even without quite as good communication between them and less colorful design.
Not sure if you saw the SOK battery monitor does more than just a state of charge... Combines many functions in one, this information leads to more efficient use of the battery which can enhance battery life and reduce the risk of failure.
State of Charge (%), remaining battery capacity (up to 999AH), charge and discharge current (A), Voltage (V).
Data storage - designed to automatically store the last testing data when system shuts off
Universal Battery Monitor- voltage range 8V-100V and up to 350A

It has a display that I could put next to the Xantrex 808-0817-01 Remote Control for Freedom X and XC

You could so easily change my mind ... Am I missing something here? Is it that there will be 3 different displays because the MPPT will also have a display so instead of 3 I would have just one? I just know how I am and would buy something that looks great and then just be happy to wake up every day with power and not really look at it all that much.
Thank you again
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Old 10-27-2021, 01:13 PM   #37
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If budget is a concern, you should ask yourself if you really need more than 400w on the roof. You don’t really know because you haven’t taken the trailer on a trip yet. I don’t know why people put so much solar up there when they really can’t use it all. If 2 x 200 panels deliver 15 amps/hr or more to the battery, you’d get 75 amps in a day. That’s more than you’re likely to use unless you’re running a cpap with humidifier on, and using a 12v compressor fridge. 2 x 200 simplifies your installation, and Saves about $500. We Chose to delay our rooftop install of 2 x 200 until January, and instead purchased a propane generator. A good decision for us because solar would have produced little or no power on most of the 50 days boondocking this past year. In Maine, we didn’t get sun hardly at all, and most of the state and national forests are heavily canopied. Next year we head west to SoCal, so solar will be much more useful. If you go with a smaller installation, you can always add to it later. I hate generators, but our inverter charger brings our LiFePo4 from 30% SOC to 100% in less than two hours. Good for another 3 days. And now for cpap, we carry a cheap power station; again good for 3 days.
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Old 10-28-2021, 06:45 AM   #38
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Hi Marine
I live in PA so I get what you are saying about the canopy and often we are in the shade as well. I am planning a couple months long trips out west and want to in one installation get everything done so we are as ready as possible.

Not so much of a budget thing more of a is it worth it type of thing. If your system works good and you are happy with it but in your opinion spending another $1000 to get the Victron system is worth it and something you would do right now - I certainly appreciate that advice.

Victron Energy MultiPlus 2000VA 12-Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter 80 amp Battery Charger, Compact - 1155.00
Victron Energy SmartShunt 500 amp Battery Monitor (Bluetooth) - 130.90
Victron Energy Cerbo GX, Panels and System Monitoring - 294.95
Victron Energy GX Touch 50, Panels and System Monitoring (Waterproof)- 221.00
Victron Energy BlueSolar MPPT 100V 50 amp 12/24-Volt Solar Charge Controller - 294.95
I think this is everything that I will need for this part - Missing anything?

This total is 2096.80

Compared to
Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 817-2080 Power Inverter - 721.90
Xantrex 808-0817-01 Remote Control for Freedom X and XC - 57.28
I already have the shunt and monitor for SOK - was 40.00
EPEVER 50A MPPT Solar Charge Controller 12V/24V/36V/48V DC Automatically Identifying System Voltage Max.PV 150V Solar Panel Regulator (Tracer 5415 an) - 219.59

This total is 1038.77

The Xantrex system is cheaper by 1058.03

I truly do value the opinion of people who have and are using the systems because I would rather not regret purchasing the less expensive version instead of getting the Victron system. Having no experience with this I envision myself not looking at this often but I could be 100% wrong. Do you monitor it all the time? Is there unique information on each of the different thing in the Xantrex system? So would I have to look at battery monitor for one thing - then the charge controller for another - and the inverter/charger for another thing?

I am thinking I might want to go with the 150/70 MPPT controller because the current plan might be too much for the 50amp? or even if I don't do all the solar right away I would always be limited by the 50amp.

Again thank you for your time reading through this and your opinions.
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Old 10-28-2021, 07:42 AM   #39
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Remember, you can only send 30amp through 10awg wire. So the most important thing you can do right now before making any further decisions is to call WBGO to find out whether you trailer has 10awg or 8awg wiring from the gland to the pass thru.

All of this year, we didn’t get much from our portable solar. Partly because of east coast canopy, partly because of lots of overcast and rainy days, and partly because we didn’t want to leave our panel out while we were away from our campsite. Too easy for it to walk away. However, like you, we’re planning a two month trip out west, and we’re committed to putting 400w on the roof. Since we’ve had our rig for a year now, I know pretty well what our energy needs are, and believe 400w solar is more than enough for us. The biggest power consumer is the fridge @ 50amp/day, so if we can just replace that amount of power with solar, we’ll have boondocking limited only by the size of our gray water tank. I got a small cheap power station to run my cpap that I can charge in the car or with portable. Since you will have 400ah of batteries, you’ll not need to worry about running low on power. IMHO, with that much battery, more than 400w of solar may be overkill.

I wouldn’t buy any charge controller that doesn’t say Victron on it. Our 75/15 which we use to service our portable works great and squeezes every drop of power out of the panel. When we install rooftop, I’ll drop in a Victron 100/30 next to the 75/15, and route it through my fuse block as well. OK, I’m a big fan of Victron. I like being able to check my batteries and charging rate without going into the camper. I like bringing up history to see how we’ve managed our power, and I like doing it all from my cell phone. You may be able to live with the Xantrex and it’s clunky Bluetooth, as we have. But you’ll be happier if you.stick with Victron for all other components. I don’t know the purpose of two of the Victron components you listed (carbon and touch), but pretty sure I’ll never need them. And JMO, having the Victron shunt is far superior to just any old shunt, because it talks to all things Victron, and is the Bluetooth device you look at most often.

Hope this help and hope we see you out on the trail.
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:17 AM   #40
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The Victron CerboGX and Touch display are fantastic but not absolutely necessary and are pretty expensive. Plus they could be added at a later date easily.

Since your less expensive option has none of this same capability it’s not a fair price comparison.
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