Upgrading House Batteries to Lithium

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

It was a nice drive, though. Got to see a different version of Texas. Spring Branch is (almost) along that route. Is that hill country up there? Our drive was hilly, iirc.

Anyone taking the HWY 46 cutoff from Boerne to Seguin drives within 2/10ths of a mile from our home. There is no Spring Branch "town". South of Hwy 46 you're in Bulverde, TX and north you're in Spring Branch, TX.

It's the start of the Hill Country - Blanco, TX, 15 miles north on Hwy 281 is probably a more official start of the Hill Country.

Most people are surprised how "green" everything is around here. The large trees and rolling landscape. People think of Texas as flat, treeless and brown.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

We make the drive from the Phoenix area to San Antonio, and sometimes to South Padre Island, once or twice a year and I always like the drive. But I have to say that we always seem to run into strong winds between El Paso and Junction and they always seem to be head winds or cross winds, and sometimes they are very, very strong.

It also seems odd to me that half of the diesel stops we make in Texas are B20 stations and that almost always gives us terrible mileage. Perhaps that is the B20 diesel or perhaps that is the headwinds, but our normal 18-19 mpg drops to about 14-15 mpg. Of course the cost of the diesel is also very low. We saw $1.84 on our last trip a couple of days ago.

Mostly the roads are in very good shape so Texas must be spending a lot of money on road upkeep.

We ran into a full blown (pun intended) duststorm on our way out, west of Lordsburg, last year. Had to pull over and wait it out, zero visibility. I tried to point us into the teeth of it, it was that strong. I was afraid if it hit us broadside, we'd suffer damage. Little no name truck stop.
I think the entire US west of the Mississippi is windy. I've hit gale force gusts on all the major east/west interstates in over 12 years of travel from the Great Lakes to the Rockies and Southwest.
Yeah, of all states to push bio-diesel, I never would have expected Texas to have so much of it. It knocks the fuel economy down a bit, for sure, but the winds are the more likely culprit. I try to run my tires hard to reduce the rolling resistance. I'm cheap and don't mind a slightly rougher ride.
Junction, TX has a little Pilot TS with a PJ Fresh deli? We got a full pizza made to order there and went out back into truck parking to eat. We got some pretty nasty looks from some of the truckers, which surpised me a little. I know they think it's their turf, so I went in and asked the manager, and he said there are no claims to parking out back, it's first come first serve, and let me know if anyone gives you a hard time. Nice fella. We ate quickly and skedaddled, anyway.
We also like the TX Gulf Coast, Mustang Island SP in particular. We've never stayed there though for one reason or another. Life keeps on getting in our way. This year it's Covid, the year before we had some unexpected medical issues that caused us to cancel our reservations, and the years before that it was damage from the Hurricane Harvey(?). Maybe next year if they ever reopen the border.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

We also like the TX Gulf Coast, Mustang Island SP in particular. We've never stayed there though for one reason or another. Life keeps on getting in our way.

I see the dust storm signs along I-10 in New Mexico all the time but fortunately we have never actually seen a dust storm.

Every year for the past 4 or 5 years we have spent a couple of days at Isla Blanca country RV park in September after the high season ends. Reservations at Isla Blanca cost $100 in addition to the cost of the space so we don't make them, we just go and the place is usually almost empty. This year we decided to go a bit earlier for a couple of reasons, one of which was to just get out of the house. I knew the place would be busy but I did not know that they would close the park to anyone who did not have a reservation, and we didn't find this out until we were in San Antonio.

We ended up at Port Aransas on Mustang Island and stayed right next to the beach at a place called On The Beach RV park. It was nice, and the walk to the beach was only about 30 seconds, but there was a lot of heavy traffic all day and most of the night so we only stayed for a single night. The beach is very nice, the water was a perfect temperature but the constant flow of cars, dune buggies and large trucks was a bit annoying. If you are going to go there you might want to check out Mustand Island State Park or some other place that is quieter.

We tried to call Mustang Island State Park but no one would answer the phone so perhaps Texas closed all of the beach parks. We did stop at the park to check but there was a barricade at the entrance, which is never a good sign.

Still, the Texas Gulf beaches are really nice - clean beach, clean water (at least where we have been) and far closer to where we live than Florida. I can see why they have so many Winter Texans. I would even think about moving there but my wife loves Arizona and how close it is to the Utah National Parks and the Colorado mountains so I guess we will be here for a while longer.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by JLUSoCal

"Soooo...now I need to figure out how to measure the alternator current going to the battery when the engine is running.
Suggestions?"

I put this in and it works great - https://www.amazon.com/AiLi-Voltmete...430080&sr=8-45

Gotta love this admonition...

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Anyone taking the HWY 46 cutoff from Boerne to Seguin drives within 2/10ths of a mile from our home. There is no Spring Branch "town". South of Hwy 46 you're in Bulverde, TX and north you're in Spring Branch, TX.

It's the start of the Hill Country - Blanco, TX, 15 miles north on Hwy 281 is probably a more official start of the Hill Country.

Most people are surprised how "green" everything is around here. The large trees and rolling landscape. People think of Texas as flat, treeless and brown.

Green there, done that.
Have always had a soft spot in our hearts for Texas. I got 4 new tires for our Roadtrek in San Angelo back in 2011 at the Discount Tire. We've crossed it top to bottom and east to west many times in the last decade. Austin is nice if you like State Capitals (which we do), and DFW is DFW. WYSIWYG.
The Gulf Coast is our main interest, though. We like the area near Corpus Christi, MISP as I said prior, but we've had no luck gettting in there to date.
If, (HUGE IF, it seems?) the border reopens to so called "non essential travel", and I don't think it will probably for monthhs/years, we had planned to do a couple of weeks at Mustang Island SP, around Christmas, then head east to Myrtle Beach and Huntington Beach State Parks for 30 days each for their "snowbird" deals in December/January/February.
Our government and media have the majority of the population scared to death by the "case" numbers you folks are having. No one tells them that a case could be a simple positive test, but no symptoms, or minor symptoms. They've got the Canadian public convinced every US case is an ICU case or a fatality, so there's a movement up here to keep the border closed.
I live in a border town in Ontario across from Michigan, and I saw one of our CBSA people yesterday, cruising through one of the marinas, probably looking for Michiganders that weren't following the isolation rules, or God knows what. It's getting silly up here, for sure.
Sorry, a little off topic, but relevant to travel restrictions for us.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I see the dust storm signs along I-10 in New Mexico all the time but fortunately we have never actually seen a dust storm.

Every year for the past 4 or 5 years we have spent a couple of days at Isla Blanca country RV park in September after the high season ends. Reservations at Isla Blanca cost $100 in addition to the cost of the space so we don't make them, we just go and the place is usually almost empty. This year we decided to go a bit earlier for a couple of reasons, one of which was to just get out of the house. I knew the place would be busy but I did not know that they would close the park to anyone who did not have a reservation, and we didn't find this out until we were in San Antonio.

We ended up at Port Aransas on Mustang Island and stayed right next to the beach at a place called On The Beach RV park. It was nice, and the walk to the beach was only about 30 seconds, but there was a lot of heavy traffic all day and most of the night so we only stayed for a single night. The beach is very nice, the water was a perfect temperature but the constant flow of cars, dune buggies and large trucks was a bit annoying. If you are going to go there you might want to check out Mustand Island State Park or some other place that is quieter.

We tried to call Mustang Island State Park but no one would answer the phone so perhaps Texas closed all of the beach parks. We did stop at the park to check but there was a barricade at the entrance, which is never a good sign.

Still, the Texas Gulf beaches are really nice - clean beach, clean water (at least where we have been) and far closer to where we live than Florida. I can see why they have so many Winter Texans. I would even think about moving there but my wife loves Arizona and how close it is to the Utah National Parks and the Colorado mountains so I guess we will be here for a while longer.

I was able to book online 2 weeks at MISP, last year for December 2019. We had to cancel due to some pressing health issues. I may try to see if their booking system is up and running. I thought they were reasonably priced considering all the perks and amenities you've mentioned. If they ever open the border to normal tourism, and I don't think it will be this year, we'll try again.

[TheArthurs]

You could try Battleborn for the Victron charger
They have topnotch CS

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I see the dust storm signs along I-10 in New Mexico all the time but fortunately we have never actually seen a dust storm.

Every year for the past 4 or 5 years we have spent a couple of days at Isla Blanca country RV park in September after the high season ends. Reservations at Isla Blanca cost $100 in addition to the cost of the space so we don't make them, we just go and the place is usually almost empty. This year we decided to go a bit earlier for a couple of reasons, one of which was to just get out of the house. I knew the place would be busy but I did not know that they would close the park to anyone who did not have a reservation, and we didn't find this out until we were in San Antonio.

We ended up at Port Aransas on Mustang Island and stayed right next to the beach at a place called On The Beach RV park. It was nice, and the walk to the beach was only about 30 seconds, but there was a lot of heavy traffic all day and most of the night so we only stayed for a single night. The beach is very nice, the water was a perfect temperature but the constant flow of cars, dune buggies and large trucks was a bit annoying. If you are going to go there you might want to check out Mustand Island State Park or some other place that is quieter.

We tried to call Mustang Island State Park but no one would answer the phone so perhaps Texas closed all of the beach parks. We did stop at the park to check but there was a barricade at the entrance, which is never a good sign.

Still, the Texas Gulf beaches are really nice - clean beach, clean water (at least where we have been) and far closer to where we live than Florida. I can see why they have so many Winter Texans. I would even think about moving there but my wife loves Arizona and how close it is to the Utah National Parks and the Colorado mountains so I guess we will be here for a while longer.

I just remebered a supposely free "on the beach" camping option, called Magnolia Beach. It was mentioned on Campendium and Free Campsites websites. Some say it's great, and free, but others say it's a noisy, crowded, party beach. We have thought we might try it sometime. Or at least have a look on our way to MISP. It's a little further up the TX Gulf coast, near Port Lavaca.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Our government and media have the majority of the population scared to death by the "case" numbers you folks are having. No one tells them that a case could be a simple positive test, but no symptoms, or minor symptoms. They've got the Canadian public convinced every US case is an ICU case or a fatality, so there's a movement up here to keep the border closed..

I couldn’t disagree with you more. Here in little Comal County cases have skyrocketed and guess what? So have deaths. Deaths here have increased tenfold in the past two months. Same is true all over Texas.

So keep reading whatever is giving you this totally false sense of security.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by creativepart

I couldn’t disagree with you more. Here in little Comal County cases have skyrocketed and guess what? So have deaths. Deaths here have increased tenfold in the past two months. Same is true all over Texas.

So keep reading whatever is giving you this totally false sense of security.

I agree, let’s not even bring this down to the level of a debate. The facts are the facts. There’s so much “spinning” going on, it just serves to confuse the message—we’re in a lot of trouble, and for an un determinable time.

Look at the TRANSMISSION rate— not the cases being diagnosed, because more testing will of course reveal more positive cases. But what percentage of those tests are actually rising? That, is the scary part, and really only good measure of where we are.

The death rate, is just a lagging indicator, and an unconscionable, sad reminder of how mismanaged this outbreak had been.

[Pianotuna]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Green there, done that.

Our government and media have the majority of the population scared to death by the "case" numbers you folks are having. No one tells them that a case could be a simple positive test, but no symptoms, or minor symptoms. They've got the Canadian public convinced every US case is an ICU case or a fatality, so there's a movement up here to keep the border closed.

Yes, nothing to be afraid of. After all, there have only been 172,606 Americans die, so far. Only 1000 more are dying each day, for the last 18 days (today is 2020 08 15). Just 60,000 in the hospital and only 17,186 are in intensive care.



I want the border to stay closed until there is an effective vaccine that I can use for protection.

[Winterbagoal]

Simply reporting overall case numbers, without any context of severity, was my point. That is the fault of our media in Canada.
I'm not suggesting there aren't hot spots in some locales, but when the Canadian population that gets it's news/info from our government owned MSM and hear or see the numbers expressed in a one dimensional way, like "100,000 total US cases today", it's confusing, and frightening to them. As well, when you use non-specific language like they often do, to describe the specific outcomes, it further clouds the issue.
It's like saying we carpet bombed the enemy, 100,000 tons of munitions, but we have no idea if we hit or killed anything". Raw data, without context of outcomes, is misleading.
I know the opinions on this subject are widely varied, and my comments weren't intended to offend, but apparently they have. Apologies for bringing it up.

[creativepart]

Some get the virus and don’t even know it
Some get the virus and have slight symptoms
Some get the virus and are truly ill for days or weeks
Some get the virus and are very ill and must be hospitalized
Some get the virus and are deathly ill, hospitalized, sedated and intubated
Some get the virus and die

This means if you, your family member or friends get the virus it is a crap shoot and the worst case scenario is death, but the other possibilities are truly bad, too.

It’s not a game or politics it’s deadly serious. You should be “scared to death“

[Winterbagoal]

As I said, I am aware that opinions on this subject are varied, and ours differ.
I understand, and respect yours.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

You should be “scared to death"

I told myself I would not comment on this subject since it is a hot button issue and people have very different views on it, but I have to disagree about being "scared to death" of it.

People should be cautious. We shop with masks and gloves, and are very careful to keep our distance from others, but neither my wife nor myself are so scared that we won't go out, or won't travel. As I have been posting we just returned from a trip that was supposed to go to South Padre Island but ended up in Port Aransas on the Gulf Coast. We have a trip planned, probably to the Utah National Parks next month and we will go back to California if its parks ever have available spaces. We will continue to be careful, but we will also continue to travel in our RV.

Be careful how you interact with others, but I don't believe there is any need to be "scared to death". If I was that I would be staying home and having food delivered to us. I am not, and it is worth remembering that the actual fatality rate of this virus was estimated at 0.4% by the CDC in the last document I saw published.

I believe this is going to be with us for the foreseeable future, vaccine or not, and I also believe that any vaccine is going to have its own issues with unwanted side effects, but I don't plan to hide out in my house for the rest of my life.

Just my opinion. Obviously YMMV.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Some get the virus and don’t even know it
Some get the virus and have slight symptoms
Some get the virus and are truly ill for days or weeks
Some get the virus and are very ill and must be hospitalized
Some get the virus and are deathly ill, hospitalized, sedated and intubated
Some get the virus and die

This means if you, your family member or friends get the virus it is a crap shoot and the worst case scenario is death, but the other possibilities are truly bad, too.

It’s not a game or politics it’s deadly serious. You should be “scared to death“

One more post before I move on.

You've defined most of the possible outcomes.
Now apply the actual numbers to each category.
That's what I meant by reporting in the "context of severity".

I didn't say it was a game, and you have to be joking about the politics part.
I think this event has already been politically weaponized by those who would.

Lastly, I firmly believe that living in fear, really isn't living at all.
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't try to be careful, but living in a bubble isn't living. Nor is having someone else tell you how to keep yourself safe.
Take care.
Peace.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Lastly, I firmly believe that living in fear, really isn't living at all.
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't try to be careful, but living in a bubble isn't living.

FWIW I completely agree.

[creativepart]

Back to Lithium Batteries... I'm getting lots of ads on the internet for some US brands that are competing with Battleborn, etc. One interesting one is Dakota Lithium. The 100 amp hour model sells for $899 and has an 11-year warranty. And the price drops to $859 each for 2 and $809 for 3 to 5.

https://dakotalithium.com/product/da...solar-battery/

I'm seeing other brands advertising for $750 and even $700.

If prices for QUALITY LiPo batteries fall to the $500s this will be a no-brainer decision. But Quality is the key, I'd say.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Back to Lithium Batteries... I'm getting lots of ads on the internet for some US brands that are competing with Battleborn, etc. One interesting one is Dakota Lithium. The 100 amp hour model sells for $899 and has an 11-year warranty. And the price drops to $859 each for 2 and $809 for 3 to 5.

https://dakotalithium.com/product/da...solar-battery/

I'm seeing other brands advertising for $750 and even $700.

If prices for QUALITY LiPo batteries fall to the $500s this will be a no-brainer decision. But Quality is the key, I'd say.

It only makes sense that Lithium battery prices would fall as they became more popular. In fact Battle Born dropped their price from $1000 to $950 some time ago and have not raised them back up, and I got mine for $900 from the installer.

I did look at Dakota when I was doing my due diligence but their prices were higher then. It will be interesting to see how low the prices go and whether the manufacturers will be able to keep the quality of the batteries up as the prices drop. And I can't help but wonder if there will be some other types of batteries being developed that might provide better power than the Lithium ones now available.

Winnebago is now offering Class Bs with a ton of Lithium batteries standard and are advertising the ability to run the AC off of them for something like 2 hours before they need recharging. The technology is certainly coming along.

[Ontario Don]

Hi folks - New to the Forum.



We are just about to take delivery of our 2020 24J, and the switch to Lithium is on the top of our mod list. In preparation, I talked to Winnebago a few months ago about the topic you are discussing now... alternators and the appetite of Lithium batteries.


With the introduction of Lithium as an option in 2020, Forest City has added a current limited electronic charge relay to the coach. It is under the passenger seat. This component is standard on any 2020 View / Navion, irrespective of whether you took the Lithium option or not.


The Mastervolt Charge Mate Pro 40 will limit the alternator current to 40 amps, taking care of the problems associated with Lithium batteries being able to take what ever the alternator can throw at it. In addition, it functions as a traditional battery isolator to protect both batteries from unintentional discharge.



I think I have attached a .pdf of the Mastervolt Charge Mate Pro 40.



Aside from the swap out of the batteries, as mentioned up above, in order to optimize the charge profile the Xantrex Charger / Inverter will need to be toggled to the Lithium selection, as well as the Zamp solar controller. All in all, according to Winnebago, this upgrade should be straightforward.



An additional change for this model year, was the elimination of the emergency start feature and the continuous - duty solenoid that has been in the View for years. Evidently both the Charge Pro 40 and the elimination of the emergency start relay was at the request of Mercedes Benz, for warranty reasons.


If you are thinking of a chassis battery maintainer, one other thing I discovered was that the aftermarket Trik - L - Start battery maintainer that has worked for years in Views is not the best solution when going with Lithium. The On / Off trip points on the Trik - L -Start, used to pass current to the chassis batteries to keep them topped up, are not optimized for Lithium coach batteries. With the higher Lithium coasting voltages, the Trik - L - Start thinks the coach batteries are charging and continuously attempts to pass current to the chassis battery. The result is the Trik - L - Start stays active until the Lithium coach voltage drops down to where a traditional lead acid battery would float - for a Lithium battery this about 17% SOC. Essentially, your Lithium batteries will be attempting to pass current to your chassis all day, instead of just when your coach batteries are charging. If you have a weak Sprinter chassis battery, you might see lower performance from your Lithium coach batteries.



The solution is an Amp - L - Start, made by the same company. The Amp - L - Start has On / Off trip points compatible with the high resting voltages of a Lithium battery.

Hope all this helps.



I'm looking forward to learning more about the View from all of your experiences.



Cheers,