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Old 03-30-2023, 11:26 AM   #1
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upgrade 2003 Minnie to Lithium

First off, I apologize for putting up duplicate info as I continue to get confused and educated by looking everyone else's diagrams.

I have a 2003 Winnebago Minnie and am wanting to get it ready to be able to be able to boondock for short periods of time. Like a week or so. I don't plan on becoming a full timer but will want to be able to work remotely, so I will need to power a laptop, wifi router, Weboost, TV, Fridge running in propane mode, and fans. Going to swap the FLA batteries with Lithium and move them to a storage compartment just next to the existing open air battery compartment.

I have some equipment already that I have been gathering with is what it is, I am sure not the best in the world but I didn't know better. I have in boxes: an upgraded converter/charger for the RV that supports Lithium batteries, 2 x 100 ah LiTime 12v LiPo batteries, Renogy DCC30S (DC-DC w/MPPT) charger, and a 1000W pure sine inverter.

I would love feedback and hope to get to the install next month.
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Old 03-30-2023, 11:57 AM   #2
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From what I see it looks better then previously.

What about the inverter output?? Do you plan to just access a receptacle on the inverter or wire it to a few circuits in the AC Panel?

As for the solar panels - it's only 400w so you can use 10ga wire without problems even if you go 100% parallel for the wiring. If you go 2 sets of 2 series wired in parallel you'll be even better with 10ga wire.

Suit yourself on the wiring style. Many will go series/parallel and others all parallel. There are advantages to both styles.

If you don't plan on adding more panels or other equipment in the future size everything for 30amps and you should be fine.
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Old 03-30-2023, 12:17 PM   #3
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From what I see it looks better then previously.

What about the inverter output?? Do you plan to just access a receptacle on the inverter or wire it to a few circuits in the AC Panel?

As for the solar panels - it's only 400w so you can use 10ga wire without problems even if you go 100% parallel for the wiring. If you go 2 sets of 2 series wired in parallel you'll be even better with 10ga wire.

Suit yourself on the wiring style. Many will go series/parallel and others all parallel. There are advantages to both styles.

If you don't plan on adding more panels or other equipment in the future size everything for 30amps and you should be fine.
Thanks.

I was planning on wiring up a dedicated outlet for the inverter for now.

Good to know about the wiring.

I maybe not thinking of stuff to run, but in the future I good see powering a microwave, I don't use that much and I forgot a water boiler or coffee maker in the future.

The fridge will run off of Propane and a small amount of 12v. I don't know how much power it would draw running on AC so I am assuming that isn't an option to run off of batteries.
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Old 03-30-2023, 01:45 PM   #4
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Are you sure that converter/charger is Lithium capable. I did a little searching and saw nothing that said it was.
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Old 03-30-2023, 01:50 PM   #5
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The fridge will run off of Propane and a small amount of 12v. I don't know how much power it would draw running on AC so I am assuming that isn't an option to run off of batteries.
The fridge will take far too much power on AC if you try to run it on the inverter. That's not a good option for when you are camping. You could run the fridge off the inverter on AC when driving ONLY - but that assumes that it can run off of a 1000w inverter. Which may not be the case.

With that inverter I'd forget about running a microwave or anything that uses more than about 800w of power, which doesn't give you a lot of options.

A 2000w inverter would be better but then that changes other requirements too.
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:26 PM   #6
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Are you sure that converter/charger is Lithium capable. I did a little searching and saw nothing that said it was.
Yep it is, I had called them and they verified it with me. There is a jumper on the circuit board to move it to Lithium mode. They were super helpful, and it is supposed to be a wire to wire replacement for the current one in the coach.
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:31 PM   #7
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The fridge will take far too much power on AC if you try to run it on the inverter. That's not a good option for when you are camping. You could run the fridge off the inverter on AC when driving ONLY - but that assumes that it can run off of a 1000w inverter. Which may not be the case.

With that inverter I'd forget about running a microwave or anything that uses more than about 800w of power, which doesn't give you a lot of options.

A 2000w inverter would be better but then that changes other requirements too.
Yeah, I realized I bought too small of an inventor and will probably upgrade to a 2000 Watt one in the future. It is too late to return the one I have so it will be a starter one. I think 3000 Watts is too much for my needs.

Regarding the fridge, that is what I was thinking as well. If I really get to the point where I need a fridge to run off of 12v, I will have to swap it for a 12v fridge but I don't see the need currently. And I can see the portable 12v coolers coming down in price eventually and being an option in the future as well. Recently I saw a battery powered one that you could get two batteries for so one could be in operation while the other charges. Was still pretty pricey though.

Any ideas how much propane is used by the fridge in propane mode?
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:03 PM   #8
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Hey Mashmaster,
Since you don’t have much invested yet in electrical systems: batteries/inverter/charger, you might want to consider skipping all that expensive and complex stuff, and go with a high powered powerstation. There are a few out there that can deliver as much power as a 200ah LiFePo4, and have built-in inverters and solar charge controllers. The cost has dropped precipitously. It now costs less for one of these beast than a permanent install. And it’s easy. Just drop it where you want, and plug in the 30amp, which routes directly to your charger/converter. Whammy, instant power upgrade. If there things were available when I did my electrical upgrade, I would have gone with a powerstation having at least 2048wh.
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:29 PM   #9
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Hey Mashmaster,
Since you don’t have much invested yet in electrical systems: batteries/inverter/charger, you might want to consider skipping all that expensive and complex stuff, and go with a high powered powerstation. There are a few out there that can deliver as much power as a 200ah LiFePo4, and have built-in inverters and solar charge controllers. The cost has dropped precipitously. It now costs less for one of these beast than a permanent install. And it’s easy. Just drop it where you want, and plug in the 30amp, which routes directly to your charger/converter. Whammy, instant power upgrade. If there things were available when I did my electrical upgrade, I would have gone with a powerstation having at least 2048wh.
I already have the batteries, charger/converter, dc-to-dc charger, and inverter. The only think I don't have currently is the solar panels and wires. So I think I am knee deep in it already.
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Old 03-31-2023, 06:41 AM   #10
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Sorry I misinterpreted your original post Mishmash,
Hardest thing is figuring out how to route the wires from roof to batteries.
It’ll be easiest to mount batteries where the wire run is easiest. Wondering if you’ve determined how to get them down from the roof. It’s also advantageous to mount batteries inside so they are climate controlled. 4x 100w panels gives you 10-12 amps and 36-48v depending on panel specs if wired S/P.

Not addressing here panel mounting.

You’ll need:
Panel mounting brackets
Fasteners and sealant
MC4 roof gland
MC4 connectors and crimping tool
10awg cable about 20ft red and black
May need one or more MC4 extension cables depending on distance between panels.
30 amp manual reset breaker and negative post.
30amp fuse between charge controller and batteries
Fuse between inverter and batteries that matches maximum inverter draw.
Preferable to have:
250amp bus bars
Victron smartshunt or bmv712

You might want to check with other Minnie owners to see how they routed cables from roof.
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Old 03-31-2023, 10:10 AM   #11
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Sorry I misinterpreted your original post Mishmash,
Hardest thing is figuring out how to route the wires from roof to batteries.
It’ll be easiest to mount batteries where the wire run is easiest. Wondering if you’ve determined how to get them down from the roof. It’s also advantageous to mount batteries inside so they are climate controlled. 4x 100w panels gives you 10-12 amps and 36-48v depending on panel specs if wired S/P.

Not addressing here panel mounting.

You’ll need:
Panel mounting brackets
Fasteners and sealant
MC4 roof gland
MC4 connectors and crimping tool
10awg cable about 20ft red and black
May need one or more MC4 extension cables depending on distance between panels.
30 amp manual reset breaker and negative post.
30amp fuse between charge controller and batteries
Fuse between inverter and batteries that matches maximum inverter draw.
Preferable to have:
250amp bus bars
Victron smartshunt or bmv712

You might want to check with other Minnie owners to see how they routed cables from roof.
Thanks! love all the feedback.

I will start a thread seeing if any Minnie owners has run solar. I wanted to put the batteries under the dinette seat but that is on the slide out. The batteries are too big for any other location. So I settled on a cargo area, so it will only be partially controlled. Had thought about making a gated duct to flow into that hold but not sure if that is a good idea.

I have watched mounting videos and it appears that the 3M tapes are super strong and hold up, I will use that to mount rails and then mount the panels to the rails. The panels will be in parallel because my solar controller has a 25v max for input.

I was thinking of running the wires from solar down the fridge vent, then to the new battery compartment. Still not convinced that is the best idea.

The list you put done is great, I had though of most of that but some things I didn't. What is the 30amp breaker for?
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Old 03-31-2023, 11:50 AM   #12
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As long as you have a fiberglass roof, tape might be ok. But if you have a rubber roof, mounting on rails secured only by tape is dangerous. Updraft can rip off a rubber roof.

The purpose of the 30 amp manual reset breaker is that there will be times you won’t want the pv array connected to the batteries. Just press the button on the breaker and pv array disconnects.Remember, pv arrays are always hot. LFP batteries do not like being charged at or near 100% SOC. Constantly when not in use. The bms will stop charging, but then you’ll be left with a fully charged battery. Life of an LFP can degrade if left stored at 100% SOC. Check with your battery maker. They will give you their preferred storage voltage. I store at 60%.

It’s not really possible to keep your batteries at a constant SOC if your batteries are connected to dc loads, as “phantom” loads (like radio memory, gas and CO sensors) will drain the battery over time, even if you have a disconnect switch. The only way to prevent phantom drain is to re-wire all loads to the disconnect switch, or if your battery has an I/O switch.

If you must mount the batteries in a lower storage compartment, you can always equip them with a thermostatically controlled tank heater mat. Very inexpensive, you wire it with a 3 prong lighted switch. If it’s below freezing, and you want to charge, just flip on the mat heater switch and wait for 1/2 hour. Your batteries will then be ready to take a charge. They can discharge down to below zero, so the battery will run the mat load to warm itself up.
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Old 04-02-2023, 09:53 AM   #13
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They will give you their preferred storage voltage. I store at 60%.
How do you discharge your battery to 60% for storage?
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Old 04-02-2023, 10:41 AM   #14
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The inverter has about a 1 amp draw when it’s on, even when not servicing ac loads. So leaving it on draws 24 amphrs per day. I just leave my inverter on until my shunt monitor shows 60%, then shut it off. Unless you have a battery I/O switch or an additional disconnect between battery and bus bars (not the existing disconnect), the battery will still slowly drain due to phantom loads like radio, CO and propane monitor, and any other monitors in your coach, which are wired to bypass the standard disconnect, even with the inverter turned off. My battery has an I/O switch, so, I just shut it down. But, it’s easy enough to install a battery disconnect between battery and bus bars such that no dc loads can reach the battery.
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Old 04-02-2023, 10:48 AM   #15
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The inverter has about a 1 amp draw when it’s on, even when not servicing ac loads. So leaving it on draws 24 amphrs per day. I just leave my inverter on until my shunt monitor shows 60%, then shut it off. Unless you have a battery I/O switch or an additional disconnect between battery and bus bars (not the existing disconnect), the battery will still slowly drain due to phantom loads like radio, CO and propane monitor, and any other monitors in your coach, which are wired to bypass the standard disconnect, even with the inverter turned off. My battery has an I/O switch, so, I just shut it down. But, it’s easy enough to install a battery disconnect between battery and bus bars such that no dc loads can reach the battery.
Since mine is stored away from our house under a roof, I would need to make up a circuit to automatically switch off the battery when hitting 60% but I will probably put in a switch to just disconnect the positive lead to the batteries.
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Old 04-02-2023, 02:56 PM   #16
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Unless you plan to leave your lithium battery for a long period of time I wouldn't worry about storing at a reduced state of charge. By a long period of time I mean more than 3-months without using the TT.

Ideally, stored for multiple months a slightly reduced state of charge is preferred but not required unless it's going to be a year or more.

I'm lucky in the my batteries turn off automatically after 48 hours with no use and turn on again only after power is applied to them.

We have an electric car, an electric bike and LFP RV battery bank. So, I feel I've got enough experience with how these things work, and don't sweat the small details. I do try to store everything at less than 90% state of charge if the item will sit for a month. But other than that I don't worry about it.

You may wish to handle yours differently, but that's how I do it.
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Old 04-03-2023, 01:31 PM   #17
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Pretty common for me to have the RV in Storage for 3 months at a time. With FLA batteries, I would have it plugged. Seems like with Lithium I wouldn't have it plugged in during storage and have a cut off switch. But optimally, would want to have a slow voltage draw to discharge the battery to 60% then stop.
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