The Dreaded Battery Discussion - with a twist

Wayne M · 10-10-2009, 06:13 PM

Okay! I have searched and read many different ideas on the subject of keeping your chassis AND house batteries charged. here goes my converstation with Winnebago today.

I called and talked to a service representative and told him that I have the Parallax 7455BT. My question was: Is it supposed to charge the house batteries and the chassis batteries.

He looked up my model number and my specific coach by serial number and stated that the system I had should charge both the service batteries and the chassis batteries.

I digress here: I have not had a problem with the house batteries maintaining a charge, but after 4 or more days of sitting, and I start the engine, I get "Low System Voltage," and then it will show me 11.4 volts. it only takes a few minutes to get it up past 13.5+
End digress:

I informed the tech of what was happening. He stated that the step must be in the off position as it keeps a steady voltage on the steps when left on. Further conversation and the tech stated that the chassis disconnect must be in the connected position, and the Auxillary Battery switch in the "On" position to charge both batteries. (and be connected to shore power)

Today, I started the engine and after 8 minutes the chassis batteries were reading 14V. I hooked up to shore power and did as the tech stated. Reaching in with an umbrella through the screen openin to turn the step off because I wanted it closed, was a trick, but it worked.

I plan on going back tomorrow or Monday and checking everything and disconnecting the shore power for 3-4 weeks.

I did purchase a Battery Minder 12248, which will charge all batteries when connectied correctly. That will be my next project as my knee replacement heals.

Any comments on all this will be considered. Experience is alway helpful.

Shuffster · 10-10-2009, 09:58 PM

If your Destination is a diesel, the low voltage warning is only shown because of the high current demand from the manifold heater operation during the first few minutes of warm up. Good luck with the Parallax converter, mine just went up in smoke a few days ago. Another made in China POS.

hamguy · 10-11-2009, 10:13 AM

OK, you are a ham so you underststand ohms laws. First, that converter is a pi** poor charger on its best day. Help out a land fill , dump it and buy a Progressive Dynamics PD9255 3-stage true converter charger. Your house battery problems will disappear.

The 14V you were reading was the charging voltage from the alternator.

Now, go to Wiring Diagrams and download the complete set of schematics for your rig. (there are two choices for diagrams so know your VIN) Study them and understand the basic operation. Bear in mind that the charging system is NOT intuitive. But, with the aforementioned PD converter, life is much simpler.

Of course you travel with a good VOM/Ammeter for troubleshooting the problems you will certainly encounter.

Be ready and enjoy the fun!

Dean

Wayne M · 10-11-2009, 10:25 AM

Dean,
Thanks for the info and link.
Yes, I do carry a good VOM, and in a pinch can break out the Simson old timer.

SteveG · 10-11-2009, 12:39 PM

Wayne M, I have found the following a useful description of the MH battery charging design:

Batteries

On my 2004 Journey the built in Dimensions Inverter/Charger will not charge the chassis batteries when plugged into shore power. Thus I did as many have done to fight the parasitic power problem and keep the chassis batteries from discharging: installed a TriK-L-Start charger. I do the same as you regarding turning off the steps etc but I do turn off my auxiliary power to try to reduce the power load on the house batteries as much as possible. In my case, turning off this auxiliary power switch does not prevent my house batteries from being charged. The Trik-L-Start charger does not require a direct connection to AC power as it diverts current from my Dimensions charger and sends it to the chassis batteries.

One thing I am wondering about is that if you leave your auxulary switch turned on and the charger power is loss then it appears you might have a slightly larger load (current draw) that the house and chassis batteries would have to support (with no charger) causing them to discharge quicker then if the auxiliary switch were in the off position. Not sure if this thought is significant especially as the electrical design is what it is. But maybe if you had a critical charge requirement you might want to monitor charger power to be sure charger power was available and not dicover at the point of departure that the batteries were discharged.

"I informed the tech of what was happening. He stated that the step must be in the off position as it keeps a steady voltage on the steps when left on. Further conversation and the tech stated that the chassis disconnect must be in the connected position, and the Auxillary Battery switch in the "On" position to charge both batteries. (and be connected to shore power)"

wagonmaster2 · 10-11-2009, 04:54 PM

My Auxilliary Battery switch is always in the On position but the chassis batteries don't get charged while hooked to shore power, only the house batteries. I usually keep a small cable with alligator clips connected to one "positive " post of the house batteries and the other end to a "positive" post of the chassis batteries and never have a dead chassis battery when starting after camping for a week or two in one place. Just have to remember to unhook the cable before starting the engine, the alternator puts out enough current to fry the small cable.

Wagonmaster2
2004 Meridian 36G

MrTransistor · 10-11-2009, 10:41 PM

Wayne…I haven’t seen a Simpson in forever! I’ve been using Fluke or years now. But I do remember the old standby meter the PSM-6 from my military days.

Belgique · 10-12-2009, 05:37 AM

I installed one of these and no problems with dead starting battery since CLICKY.

Wayne M · 10-12-2009, 08:03 AM

Thanks all for the comments, and keep them coming.

The Simpson 260 is my fall back when I just don't trust a digital. (Old school, I guess.)

I do not have a critical requirement to monitor the batteries. I just want to be able to start the coach and get on the road when I want to. My unit is in storage, with 115v, about 10 miles from me. Covered storage and night security - for a price!

I like the idea of a jumper between chassis and house batteries to maintain a charge. I would have to take into consideration that the batteries are not the same, but similar, and of course, to remove the jumper. The Trik-L-Start seems to be a good alternative, but I already have purchased the Battery Minder 12248 and I intend to hook it up when my knee replacement allows me to crawl around. Also, I have considered putting a timer on the AC input to allow the AC to come on for about 1 hour a day or so. I'll need to do some more research on that possibility. All of this is subject to monitoring to see if the desired results are achieved.

My first step is as originally posted, following Winnebago's suggestions. After all, are they not the ones that know?

Today I will check to see if the voltages are around 13.5v for both sets of batteries. If they are, then the Parallax convert is doing it's job. If not, then an alternative will be found.

Keep 'em coming.

JayLodge · 10-13-2009, 07:08 AM

PSM-6. Wow. Haven't heard that term since I left the F-106 flight line (MA-1 system) in 1971. What were you doing were you're familiar with the PSM-6?

RustyJC · 10-13-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

I like the idea of a jumper between chassis and house batteries to maintain a charge. I would have to take into consideration that the batteries are not the same, but similar, and of course, to remove the jumper.

Wayne,

While you're laid up and have time to ponder, how about a high-amperage manual switch in the jumper, or a relay that would break the jumper circuit when no AC was present or when the ignition switch was turned on?

Just some off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts over a cuppa coffee....

Oh, and I'm an old Simpson 260 user myself.

Rusty

MrTransistor · 10-13-2009, 11:16 AM

Hi Jay & Rusty,

AC&W radar maintenance from Nov. 1967 to Nov. 1974. Taught Radar Sets at ‘field site’ out on Pass Rd. west of Kessler before being transferred to Ally Hall to teach transistor theory. 7 level course on the MPS-11 as a prep for a year at Pleku, RVN before my ending A.F. time with 4 years on the FPS-85 at Eglin. 3 AFSC’s with a T prefix.

33 years with Siemens Medical Solutions fixing X-Ray equipment tore me up. Now I’m disabled and wishing I was 25 again.

Looked on line and found several sites that have vintage Simpson 260s for sale. One had an unused one for $389.00. Makes me wish I had bought them up years ago. I wonder what a pristine PSM-6 would sell for?

UFO Pilot · 10-13-2009, 10:25 PM

Wayne M

My 08 Destination came from the factory with the Trik-L-Start installed. I verified that with Winne and found it behind a panel in the electrical compartment. I believe it only works if the battery disconnects are in the on position.

Wayne M · 10-14-2009, 08:19 AM

Thanks again for all the comments. Keep 'em coming.

Yesterday I visited the MH and disconnected the electric and metered the batteries (Sperry 4400DM digital meter) The chassis batteries had 13.1+ volts, and the house batteries were at 13.2+ volts. This is typical of the float maintenance put out by the Parallax converter. So I guess it is working, including the chassis batteries.

I purchased a digital electric switch and have it set to turn on the AC for 1 hour each day. I plan on monitoring this every few days until I add the Battery Minder.

As for the Battery Minder, I called the "distributor" and left a message and they called back after two days. I had some questions, of which they answered.

One of them was, can I charge all batteries using the Battery Minder. It was stated that the batteries must be brought up to the same state of charge and then the Battery Minder could be used to maintain all four (two sets of two each). I would expect that once I have this set up, and have traveled down the highway for a couple hundred miles, that the alternator would have all the batteries to a same state charge, at which time I could plug in the Battery Minder and have it do it's mainenance thing of desufating, etc.,

Oh! Winnebago stated I did not have the Trik-L-Start.

UFO Pilot · 10-14-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Oh! Winnebago stated I did not have the Trik-L-Start.

That is really strange as I was told that they are standard on all Winne coaches now. Have you looked at the wiring diagram for your coach? Like I said before, mine is hidden behind a panel. I removed the panel to verify that it is indeed there.

Wayne M · 10-15-2009, 09:01 AM

I have called Winnebago on two occasions before, and both time the looked up my specific build and said I do not have the Trik-L-Start. I asked my dealer service manager and received the same reply.

No, I have not removed any panels, and don't even know what panel I would have to remove. All of my electrical is in one compartment, just to the rear of the street side duals.

MrTransistor · 10-15-2009, 12:20 PM

Hi Wayne,

May I suggest the echo~charge by Xantrex instead of the Trik-L-Start by LSL Products.

The echo~charge has a 15 Amp. max output compared to 5 Amps. for the Trik-L-Start.

I don’t know the price difference but the echo~charge that I installed floats the chassis batteries at 13 Volts when the coach batteries are floating at 13.3 Volts. I’ve never had any problem with the echo~charge or the chassis batteries since I installed it above the inverter/charger about 4 years ago.

Wayne M · 10-15-2009, 09:29 PM

Thanks Mark.

MrTransistor · 10-16-2009, 03:29 PM

Hi Wayne,

According to the wiring diagrams, all versions of the 2008 Destination are equipped with the Ultra Trik-L-Start. It should be mounted just above and in the center between the two solenoids for ‘Aux. Start’ and ‘Battery disconnect’. If it’s not there, I’d do some complaining. As reference, go to the ‘Chassis Wiring Installation’ diagram page 4 for your coach and zoom in on the contactor area.

UFO Pilot · 10-16-2009, 10:16 PM

As soon as I get mine back from the shop, I will post a picture of where I finally located the Trik-L-Start on my Destination.