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Old 04-17-2006, 01:45 PM   #1
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In light of my buddies inverter disaster (which is being fixed now Thanks to Bryan and the Winnie Guys ), I am looking at putting in my own Surge Guard and possibly an Autoformer. The Franks booster and Hughes Autoformer come to mind. Also, the surge guard permanently installed would be good too. Given the space issues in the electrical bay, has anyone mounted these permanently?
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Old 04-17-2006, 01:45 PM   #2
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In light of my buddies inverter disaster (which is being fixed now Thanks to Bryan and the Winnie Guys ), I am looking at putting in my own Surge Guard and possibly an Autoformer. The Franks booster and Hughes Autoformer come to mind. Also, the surge guard permanently installed would be good too. Given the space issues in the electrical bay, has anyone mounted these permanently?
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Old 04-17-2006, 02:31 PM   #3
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I mounted our Frank's booster in the electrical bay semi-permanently by cutting our power cord and adding a female connector to the severed end of the cord and a male end to the part of the cord still attached to the motorhome. Worked out very well, I can by-pass the booster unit if needed and still get power to the RV, which in my case is good since the booster has not worked more than it has!
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:34 PM   #4
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Big Trace, I have a 50 Amp Surge Guard hard wired in my compartment and there is plenty room. Don't know about the Autoformer as I have never felt the need for one.. Good Miles
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:04 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
Big Trace, I have a 50 Amp Surge Guard hard wired in my compartment and there is plenty room. Don't know about the Autoformer as I have never felt the need for one.. Good Miles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Same as Jim. I absolutely want the surge protection. The autoformer would be in the "nice to have" category. I have pondered having one and I decided I wouldn't need it that often to justify carrying the weight around.

Only one time in maybe thirty campgrounds did I have sagging voltage. I must say that at that moment in time I probably would have paid the $$ (not insignificant) for the Hughes product. I "solved" the problem by switching the EMS to 20 amp even though we on 30 amp service (it was 30 amps on a weekday!)

If you want surge protection, go with a dedicated surge protector; the autoformers are okay at surge protection but not as effective as a dedicated surge protection product.
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:17 PM   #6
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Hey Ichn,

Thanks for the input. Have you found the need for the autoformer? I know the surge guard only allows voltages down to 102 where it will then cut off, but 102 is a very dangerous area for any appliances to live in. With the autoformer or Frank's booster, you would be assured of a minimum of 112 volts (10% increase)in the autoformers case, slightly more in the Franks Booster case (16% increase). Have you found any problems at any park resulting in a loss of power, or surge situation? Has anyone installed a park power line monitor to see what the incoming voltage is?? Thanks
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:23 PM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
Big Trace, I have a 50 Amp Surge Guard hard wired in my compartment and there is plenty room. Don't know about the Autoformer as I have never felt the need for one.. Good Miles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Same as Jim. I absolutely want the surge protection. The autoformer would be in the "nice to have" category. I have pondered having one and I decided I wouldn't need it that often to justify carrying the weight around.

Only one time in maybe thirty campgrounds did I have sagging voltage. I must say that at that moment in time I probably would have paid the $$ (not insignificant) for the Hughes product. I "solved" the problem by switching the EMS to 20 amp even though we on 30 amp service (it was 30 amps on a weekday!)

If you want surge protection, go with a dedicated surge protector; the autoformers are okay at surge protection but not as effective as a dedicated surge protection product. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have read that placing the autoformer after the surge guard and before the ATS is the way to go. Our last campground was older and probably had some power issues. One guys 30 amp connection actually fell out of the receptacle because it was so loose. He called me over to see what the issue was, and after some sluething, I found the plug resting against the box cover out of the receptacle. I don't know if poor voltage caused my buddies problem, especially since he had a surge guard in place, but I know it didn't help either. The park was PACKED with people and I'm sure people lighting off different things, at all hours, were having big power swings.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:55 AM   #8
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Big Trace, Like John, I have only had one problem in one campground with low voltage.
The surge protector kept kicking out and it only happened when the campground was full.
Wasn't smart enough to shift to 20 amps.
I have a plug in meter (digital) that I leave plugged in to a inside receptacle all the time. Just reads the voltage and I leave it plugged in at home too...Safe Miles...Jim
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:56 AM   #9
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I have both the surge guard and the autoformer.
I placed the autoformer after the surge guard and before the ATS. I have personally found countless times when the autoformer is in the boost mode indicating low campground voltage.
In fact I even had it at home recently until we found that the transformer on the street was bad and the power company had to replace it.
I think either the autoformer will pay for itself over the long run. There is plenty of room in the bay for both units.
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Old 04-18-2006, 04:53 AM   #10
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigTrace:
Hey Ichn,

Thanks for the input. Have you found the need for the autoformer? I know the surge guard only allows voltages down to 102 where it will then cut off, but 102 is a very dangerous area for any appliances to live in. With the autoformer or Frank's booster, you would be assured of a minimum of 112 volts (10% increase)in the autoformers case, slightly more in the Franks Booster case (16% increase). Have you found any problems at any park resulting in a loss of power, or surge situation? Has anyone installed a park power line monitor to see what the incoming voltage is?? Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Trace - I actually have a couple of ways of getting a good idea about park power problems.

First way is the UPS I use for my PC tower; when I get voltage sags, it beeps at me.

Secondly my Xantrex display will tell me what the incoming AC voltage is, and even the line frequency.

My feeling is the surge guard will protect you from transient events which would be the most damaging and is the least predictable. The autoformer will help keep your voltage up in sagging situations, but you can do self-management by switching the EMS to 20 amps, and/or shutting AC-powered equipment off manually until you stablize the voltage.

It is important to remember that the autoformer is not 'creating' energy - it is raising voltage at the expense of the current. You might have 110 V after the autoformer does its thing, but you won't have the full 20 or 30 amps available.

Having said all of that, if I had the space to permanantly mount an autoformer, I probably would buy one. Since I essentially had to choose between a surge guard or an autoformer, I wanted the surge guard. If you can do both, go for both.

Oh - a word about damage due to low voltage. Not everything that is plugged into the AC outlet will be harmed by low voltage. As a rule of thumb if it is mostly a resistive load, i.e., hairdryer, toaster, they will not be harmed by low voltage, they just won't work as well. Inductive loads (motors) would not do well with low voltage over an extended period of time. Some electronics might not even work if the input voltage drops too much, however they might not be permanantly affected (damaged) - it is hard to say.

Some electronics and other products are designed to operate over a wide variance of input voltage - in other parts of the world you might or might not get 115V (or 220v in Europe) at the mains, especially in the evening when everybody is watching the telly
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:35 AM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I have only had one problem in one campground with low voltage.
The surge protector kept kicking out and it only happened when the campground was full.
Wasn't smart enough to shift to 20 amps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have low voltage at 30/50amps you would still have low voltage at 20amps.
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:01 AM   #12
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Big Trace: I installed the Franks just like Easyrider described. I can tell you that the boost is great. Lake Havasu AZ,and the Sacramento Delta, last summer, everyone turns on the AC, the Franks boost kicks in and my coach is set. Boost with surge protection, well worth the money. The install will take about 2 hours.
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Old 04-18-2006, 07:42 AM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I have only had one problem in one campground with low voltage.
The surge protector kept kicking out and it only happened when the campground was full.
Wasn't smart enough to shift to 20 amps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you have low voltage at 30/50amps you would still have low voltage at 20amps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The voltage will sag due to the current demand; reduce the current demand and the voltage will rise. If things are really bad with the campground wiring, that is if you only have 100V at the box before you plug in, then Tom is exactly right - you cannot change that except by a buck/boost autoformer.

Like I said - if I had the space to mount one in the electrical bay, I would probably get one. Since I don't, I'll just have to deal with the occasional low voltage problem.
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:13 AM   #14
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If I'm correct, I think what John is trying to say is that he manages the power by making the PMS work a bit harder to manage things within 20 amps, vice 30 amps thereby reducing the risk of equipment problems due to low voltages (simply because they are turned off when not needed). As John mentioned, motors would be most at stake, specifically the compressor motor of a refrigerator or a computers power supply. Any rebuttal to this??
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Old 04-18-2006, 09:32 AM   #15
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I was advised by the Hughs Autoformer folks not to install the unit inside unless it is well ventillated as it generates a lot of heat. They say it must be well ventillated and not to be used otherwise. So that should be a major consideration as to where you install it.....
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:30 AM   #16
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Not from me Big Trace, I don't do rebuttals. Good Miles
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Old 06-09-2006, 06:16 PM   #17
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I believe I read where the Hughs Autoformer works by using a step up transformer when low voltage is present. Transformers are usually very effiecent and I do not think much amperage is consumed by increasing wire turns for greater voltage. For over voltage a step down transformer comes into play.
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