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Old 08-25-2021, 10:35 AM   #1
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Socket use newbie ?

Hello, just got our first and brand new Navion 2022 yesterday. In my owners manual under socket use it says “ only devices of 150 watts maximum are permitted “ can you please enlighten me or elaborate as that seems pretty dang low. I intend to use a small hand blender but its 500 watts, my hair dryer is 1200. I haven’t tried it as I don’t want to just start blowing fuses. My rig is just parked in my driveway as we get to know it and sort through the basics. Thanks so much.
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Old 08-25-2021, 11:18 AM   #2
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I might guess that info is for use when using an inverter?
Some checking on the book is needed but is that under a section explaining inverter use as the inverter may only be sized to provide the 150 watt level, but if plugged into shore power, I would assume far more power would be available?

I'm thinking that we find a lot of somewhat confusing info in the manuals and this may be one where the folks who wrote it had something in the back of their mind that leaves us guessing at times? Not too many will have experience with the 2022 years yet but this would be true of many previous models RV.
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Old 08-25-2021, 11:56 AM   #3
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Does the "socket" you are referring to produce 12V DC or 120V AC? I suspect it is 12V DC and is a standard cigarette lighter outlet socket. These are limited to 10-15 amps DC.

If you want 120V AC power you will have to install an inverter, wired directly to your coach batteries through a suitably sized fuse. If you want to produce 500 watts for your blender, the inverter will draw about 40 amps from your batteries.

David
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
Does the "socket" you are referring to produce 12V DC or 120V AC? I suspect it is 12V DC and is a standard cigarette lighter outlet socket. These are limited to 10-15 amps DC.

If you want 120V AC power you will have to install an inverter, wired directly to your coach batteries through a suitably sized fuse. If you want to produce 500 watts for your blender, the inverter will draw about 40 amps from your batteries.

David
Doing a bit more looking, I suspect this is much more likely to be true. Sometimes it is how we read things!
Looking at the manual, the only mention of inverter is 200Watt as an option but not mention of "socket" that I find in the RV manual, so I'm changing my guess to thinking they are reading the manual for the chassis and that the "socket" referred to is one of the 12vDC outlets with limited power that we might call cigarette lighters?
The mention of blenders and hair dryer made me jump to thinking of 110AC!
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Old 08-25-2021, 01:45 PM   #5
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150W/12V = 12.5A which makes sense for a 12V "socket".

I'd think a blender or hair dryer would plug into a 110V/120V outlet, just like at home.

I don't understand David's comment about needing an inverter. The Navion is going to have 110V/120V outlets. An inverter would only be necessary if there wasn't any shore power. As long as Susan is hooked up to shore power she can plug in 110V/120V appliances in just like she'd do at home.

I guess Susan will have to enlighten us about her blender and hair dryer.
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Old 08-25-2021, 02:52 PM   #6
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She definitely didn't say she was plugged into shore power but may have implied it given that she is in her home driveway.

I will join the chorus: We don't understand what you are trying to do.

David
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Old 08-25-2021, 10:05 PM   #7
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Thanks, this is going to be a long learning curve

I think Morich may be on the right track the manual I am reading is “ Sprinter operating instructions” Click image for larger version

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ID:	180654 so the full heading is “using the 110v socket in the lower control panel”. So this probably does not apply to the 110 v sockets in the rear of the cabin. My goal is that I am stocking our tool kit and wanted to put in some of the most likely to need fuses. From life’s experiences if I am going to blow a fuse it’s when I’m using the hairdryer or the blender and microwave at the same time. But… as I dig a bit deeper it looks like maybe the “ rear sockets” are not attached to the standard fuses. in the Sprinter fuse assignment supplement I now see on the last page under k100 relay carrier the item “ sockets, rear” so I need to educate myself a bit (lot) more as this is obviously more complicated than my house. My rig has an inverter/ solar/ house/ chassis batteries/ generator and the salesman said it will just switch around from inverter on its own but seriously I want to actually understand it, not that I don’t trust the salesman.
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Old 08-26-2021, 07:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan View Post
My rig has an inverter/ solar/ house/ chassis batteries/ generator and the salesman said it will just switch around from inverter on its own but seriously I want to actually understand it, not that I don’t trust the salesman.
You're definitely going about this the right way and, although some salespeople are knowledgeable and helpful, many (most?) don't know what they're talking about.

Reading Winnieowners posts on a regular basis will educate you fairly quickly even if they're not specific to your Navion.

You can download a lot of info including plumbing and electrical diagrams here:

https://www.winnebago.com/owners/owner-resources

The parts catalog is useful not only to find part numbers but there are great drawings as well.

I'm not familiar with your inverter, but most (maybe all) will consume battery power as long they're "on" or in "standby" mode even if they're not being used. It's better to leave them "off" and turn them "on" only when needed.

Also, 120V appliances (especially your hair dryer), running on an inverter, can quickly consume your house batteries' available amp hours. Amps = Watts/Voltage. Amp hours = Amps x Hours of Use. 1500W/12V = 125A. A typical (non-Lithium) RV battery is about 100Ah in capacity, of which about 50% is useful. That means a hair dryer running for 10 min will consume 125Ah/6 = 21Ah or a little less than 50% of a typical 100Ah RV battery's useful capacity.

What do you have for house batteries? Do you have solar? Do you have a generator? What kind of refrigerator and what kind of stove top?

Do you plan on camping frequently without shore power? If you do, 12V power is going to be your #1 concern.
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Old 08-26-2021, 07:57 AM   #9
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Getting to know the systems BEFORE they break can make things much easier when they do finally give you a headache! Good thinking.

One way To help me clear things when there is a big muddle of new stuff to figure is to break it down into smaller bites of info. The electrical parts of the RV can seem terribly complex, so I look at them as three separate but connected systems.

I find the stuff we find on most any car or truck is one system. Horn, headlights, outside clearance lights, all fit this. These often have a different fuse/breaker box and often outside under the hood, etc.

The 110AC system is more familiar as it matches what we have in houses in some ways.
We plug in a cord or start the generator and then we run the bigger, higher current items like air conditioner, microwave, hair dryer and things we can plug into the outlets that look like what we have at home. This AC system also has a converter which makes 12 VDC to be stored in the coach batteries.

This last and harder for many is the 12VDC system that powers the RV stuff that we don't often find on cars or trucks. Sorting which item will be powered by which system can help clear the muddle a bunch, so if you have vent fans, water pumps, interior lights or things that don't come on the normal truck, expect it to be part of the coach RV 12 volt system!

What makes it hard, is that these different systems do have lots of connections which we use at different times and for different reasons.

We want the start battery to charge and use that for the car/truck items but that alternator on the engine has lots of spare capacity, so they have gizmos to tie the coach batteries onto it and let those batteries get a bit of charge while we drive to the next site. It connects while we drive but disconnects when we shut off the engine so that we don't run both batteries down! But they also may put a "boost" or "aux" switch on the dash and we can use that switch to temporarily connect the batteries to give the engine start battery a boost if it is weak! Good system but confusing?

Big headache for new folks is that they know the batteries are connected when driving so when stored they think keeping the coach batteries charged will also keep the start battery but that connection is not there on many RV. Some come with a setup and some add a Trik-L-Start to help.

Lots of small points on each RV.
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Old 08-26-2021, 11:52 AM   #10
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To add to Morich's comments, one of the most important things is to make sure you turn your "house" or "coach" batteries Off when you're not using your MH unless you're plugged into shore power. There are a number of so-called "parasitic" loads (Propane alarms, etc.) that can drain your batteries.

Pages 6-8 and 6-9 of your owners manual addresses this.

I hope we're not throwing too much info at you but managing and maintaining your batteries is one of the highest priorities.
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Old 08-26-2021, 10:46 PM   #11
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Thank you

You all are a wealth of knowledge. I really appreciate the breakdown of the various elec systems and I’m already feeling more confident.
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Old 08-26-2021, 11:01 PM   #12
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Ok, am I missing something? She has a 200w inverter, hence the reason why the manual says not to plug anything in over 150watts. Makes sense to me.
The second question is when on shoreline power, is the outlet then able to provide the typical 15amps? Is it wired to do so?
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Old 08-27-2021, 07:29 AM   #13
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In looking at the pictures from the manual posted above, I think it is a matter of being an "extra" socket or outlet for the RV which is connected to the chassis part of the electrical and not the coach 110AC we normally think of for hair dryers, etc.
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