Shore Power Questions ...Water Heater, Slides?

[amanda_h]

More stupid newbie questions!

You guys are great for your willingness to help out!


Ok, the lighted switch on the panel that's labeled "Water HTR 110V"� ...when we're hooked to shore power, do we just leave that on continuously? We're just turning it on when we think we'll need hot water to save electricity. And not to overheat the water in the tank.

How does the system work? We do notice a propane switch for the water heater too. We are assuming that we'd use that when not hooked to shore power to heat the water.

However, we notice that the water is somewhat hot even though we don't have the electric switch turned to "on"� so something is automatically heating the water somewhat without our knowing it. We haven't started the engine in days so we know it's not the Motor Aid. What's heating the water? And what should be the procedure when hooked to shore power in a camp site? Just leave the switch on all the time?


Next question: The owner's manual states that we "should"� have the engine running when operating the slide outs. However, if we are hooked to shore power, do we have to have the engine running to be operating the slides? We can understand that if we were not on shore power but are the hydraulics the slides use electrically motivated? Is it an absolute must to have the engine running?

Thanks again!!!

--amanda

[amanda_h]

More stupid newbie questions!

You guys are great for your willingness to help out!


Ok, the lighted switch on the panel that's labeled "Water HTR 110V"� ...when we're hooked to shore power, do we just leave that on continuously? We're just turning it on when we think we'll need hot water to save electricity. And not to overheat the water in the tank.

How does the system work? We do notice a propane switch for the water heater too. We are assuming that we'd use that when not hooked to shore power to heat the water.

However, we notice that the water is somewhat hot even though we don't have the electric switch turned to "on"� so something is automatically heating the water somewhat without our knowing it. We haven't started the engine in days so we know it's not the Motor Aid. What's heating the water? And what should be the procedure when hooked to shore power in a camp site? Just leave the switch on all the time?


Next question: The owner's manual states that we "should"� have the engine running when operating the slide outs. However, if we are hooked to shore power, do we have to have the engine running to be operating the slides? We can understand that if we were not on shore power but are the hydraulics the slides use electrically motivated? Is it an absolute must to have the engine running?

Thanks again!!!

--amanda

[j griff]

There are many different ideas about the "best' hot water solution. The motor aid will heat while you are under way. If we are hooked to 50amp shore power or dry camping with the generator running we use the electrical option for hot water. If not, we normally use the propane option. Rationale: If paying for 50A or on generator - why spend money for propane use. If on 30A, particularly in summer, the electric option may cause other appliances to shut down. Works for us.

[Carnles]

Hi again amanda--

On the water heater, there are two ways to heat the water, with the electric element and with propane. You can leave the "Water HTR 110v" switch on continously to heat water and it will cycle on and off just like in a house to keep from overheating the water in the tank. The propane heater is for when you don't have an electric power source or you can use the propane heat and the electric heat simultaneously to help the tank recover more quickly in high use times. It's OK to use them both at the same time...they will both go off when the water is at the required temperature. My motorhome also heats the water up when we are traveling down the road by engine heat by routing the engine coolant through a heat exchanger so when we get to our destination we have hot water. I would assume that the water is somewhat hot as you describe just because it hasn't cooled down yet. The hot water tank must be well insulated.

As far as the slide question, my wife usually handles running the slides in and out and we usually do not have the engine running when moving the slides. We level the coach and turn off the engine and then run out the slides. We have not had any problems doing it that way. Just remember to hold the button momentarily once the slide is all the way in (or all the way out) to prevent the slides from creeping in or out. We have had one of the slides creep in when we have not held the switch momentarily after full travel.

Hope this helps.

[David K]

Amanda -- No question is a "stupid question" the only stupid one is the one that is not asked. You will find that everyone here will try to answer you when we can.

Water is heated on the road when by the heat exchanger (actually the coolant from the engine running through the water heater). The heaters are usually very well insulated and that heating will last for several hours after you stop. I usually run the 110 heating element when in the campground and hooked up to shore power. I will turn on the propane as a heater source when both the wife and I are taking showers in the motor home -- helps the recovery rate to be much quicker than when just the electricity or the propane is being used. When "boondocking", I use the propane as a heat source.

I usually do not have the engine running on my MH when I am running the slides in or out. Carroll and Leslie both had a good reminder about holding the slide switch on after running the slide either in or out. This builds up pressure and helps prevent "slide creep" which may occur if you do not do this. You will find this recommendation in the operating manual of your MH.

Hope this helps.

[amanda_h]

Oh gee! You guys are absolutely wonderful!

So we can keep the "Water HTR 110V"� on all the time while we are hooked to shore power. Great. We thought we'd be using more electricity that way but if it's like a home water heater with a thermostat, then it really shouldn't be using that much more electricity than turning it off and on all the time, right?

And that's great news about the slides. As long as we are hooked to shore power, it's perfectly ok to run the slides in or out without the engine running. That goes for the levelers too, correct? I think I remember reading in the manual that you should only have the ignition switch in the "accessory" position and not necessarily the engine running when activating the auto levelers.

So the engine doesn't have to be on for either procedure, correct?


Thank you!!!!!

--amanda

[CHIPPYSGT]

No, you don't have to have the engine running to do either procedure. Just level first, then run the slides out. In fact, you can do it on the batteries if you have to, though I usually start the gen. set.

Your engine heater (for cold climate starts) should be left off. They come from the factory unplugged in the electrical compartment. I've not plugged mine in as I try to stay where it's relatively warm.

[Tom N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHIPPYSGT:
No, you don't have to have the engine running to do either procedure. Just level first, then run the slides out. In fact, you can do it on the batteries if you have to, though I usually start the gen. set. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your '05 Meridian's HWH hydraulics (slides & jacks) run off the starting/chassis batteries. Your generator does NOT charge your starting/chassis batteries. Thus, running the generator when extending slides and jacks does nothing.

If you want to keep you starting/chassis batteries up while extending slides and jacks you have to have the engine running.

-Tom

[amanda_h]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHIPPYSGT:
No, you don't have to have the engine running to do either procedure. Just level first, then run the slides out. In fact, you can do it on the batteries if you have to, though I usually start the gen. set. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your '05 Meridian's HWH hydraulics (slides & jacks) run off the starting/chassis batteries. Your generator does NOT charge your starting/chassis batteries. Thus, running the generator when extending slides and jacks does nothing.

If you want to keep you starting/chassis batteries up while extending slides and jacks you have to have the engine running.

-Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok, this is where we don't really understand what's going on.

If the hydraulics to the levelers and slides are electrically driven, then shouldn't the generator supply the necessary back-up power to "help" them operate?

If not, then it doesn't necessarily matter if we're plugged into shore power, right? Does being plugged into shore power help at all in this procedure?

*laughs* As you all can tell, neither of us are mechanically inclined!

--amanda

[CHIPPYSGT]

Hmmmm,

I've done it since it was new with no problems. I do have a Trik-L-Start on my chassis batteries.

[Tom N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHIPPYSGT:
Hmmmm,

I've done it since it was new with no problems. I do have a Trik-L-Start on my chassis batteries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say you'd have problems. I said running the generator will do nothing to replace the current in your chassis batteries used by the hydraulic pump. The pump draws over 100 amps and I think uses #2 wire from the chassis batteries.

In the time it takes to extend your slides and jacks the trickle charge from your Trik-L-Start will do nothing.

If you want to charge your chassis batteries while running the pump leave your engine running not your generator.

Note, the Trik-L-Start will very slowly replenish the chassis batteries, after shutting down, if you're plugged in to 120v or running the generator.

-Tom

[Chief]

Amanda, you are correct in that the slides and levelers are motor driven, however their power source is the chassis batteries and not the house batteries. These batteries can only be charged by the engine running via the output of the alternator. They are not charged when hooked up to shore power or when the genset is running except for a very small trickle or "maintenance" charge via the Trik-L-Charge device. Your on board battery charger provides battery charging only to the coach/house batteries.
Now what does all this mean.
When you first arrive @ the campground your chassis batteries should be charged because the engine has been running for some time just to get there. It is OK to operate the slides and levelers with the engine off in this situation. If you must re-level or operate the slides after some time just pay attention to the sound of the hydraulics operating. If they are sounding a bit sluggish or they are not as fast as they used to be, then you probably need to start the engine and let the chassis batteries charge. These sounds will become apparent when you get a little more experience.
If in doubt, start the engine when operating these systems.
You can check the status of both battery systems @ the one place center. If the chassis batteries are less than 12.5 volts it would probably be a good idea to start the engine before operating these systems. Hope this helps.

[Tom N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by amanda_h:
Ok, this is where we don't really understand what's going on.

If the hydraulics to the levelers and slides are electrically driven, then shouldn't the generator supply the necessary back-up power to "help" them operate?

If not, then it doesn't necessarily matter if we're plugged into shore power, right? Does being plugged into shore power help at all in this procedure?

*laughs* As you all can tell, neither of us are mechanically inclined!

--amanda </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your slides and jacks are operated by hydraulic cylinders. But the hydraulic pump that operates the hydraulic cylinders is run by a 12 volt electric motor. This 12 volt motor is operated from your engine starting batteries. So if you leave the engine running while extending jacks and slide your engine alternator will replenish some of the current the hydraulic motor draws.

You generator produces 120 volts and charges the coach (house) batteries through your invertor. Your invertor converts the 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC for interior lights and other house 12 volt items also. And your invertor also supplies 12 volt DC to you house batteries to keep them charged. Also, when not pugged in your invertor changes 12 volt DC from your coach batteries to 120 volt AC for TV, micro, etc.

If you have a Trik-L-Start this supplies a very small charge from your coach/house batteries to your starting/chassis batteries when you are plugged into 120 volt AC or your generator is running.

When your engine is running ALL batteries are being charge through a battery isolator. The isolator only allows current to flow one way and that is from the engine alternator to ALL the batteries while the isolator still maintains the separation between the chassis and coach batteries.

I think.

If I made any error someone please correct me.

-Tom

[Tom N]

Amanda;

Many don't like to hear a diesel engine idling for extended periods of time in a campground.

You'll be fine just positioning your Meridian and shutting down and then leveling and extending the slides. Your Trik-L-Start will keep your starting batteries charged as long as you are plugged in and they'll be completely charged in a few hours.

You can monitor the state of your batteries on your OnePlace systems center. The batteries should always be above ~12.5 volts.

-Tom

[amanda_h]

Tom and Chief, you have both posted such great clarifying explanations!! Thank you so much!

So as long as the engine battery meter is reading in the 12.5v range, it should be ok to level and run the slides with the engine off, right? That's great information!



I can't believe how helpful everybody has been!

If we ever meet any of you on the road somewhere, dinner is, of course, on us!!

--amanda

[SCVJeff]

I haven't measured it, but the Trik-L-Start is rated at 5A, which is more than enough to top off the batteries over a few days stay while plugged in. Dry camping is a different story..

[John_Canfield]

Tom - in my chassis Winnie uses a bridging solenoid and not a diode isolator for charging all batteries while the engine is running. I would have thought an isolator would have been the preferred engineering since there are no moving parts with the isolator. Downside of a diode isolator is the approx 1.2 volt drop across a silicon diode which is released via heat (ergo the cooling fins on the assembly.) We are now on our second replacement solenoid

FWIW - our set up procedure is:

+ engine off when we are situated
+ I'm inside watching the coach level while Jane is plugging in power
+ as soon as we are leveled, slides go out
+ Datastorm gear turned on, King Dome set to "Idle/hold"
+ cats are let out of their carriers
+ I go outside and hook up plumbing and disconnect toad unless it is only an overnight stop
+ deploy awnings as required
+ kick back with a nice glass of Chardonnay, check email, and plan the next day if we are en route

[mickey53usa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">kick back with a nice glass of Chardonnay, check email, and plan the next day if we are en route </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John,

I do like your style : )

[j griff]

I never leave the engine running when leveling or extending/retracting slides or jacks. And, most of the time I level, extend, before plugging in to shore power. Have never had a problem with insufficient battery power to accomplish the set up.