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Old 11-27-2014, 09:55 PM   #1
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Shore Power and Storage

Good Evening.


Our new to us Journey 34B is our 3rd DP. Just came across something that I never read before in the manuals of the other coaches that we have owned;

In the electrical section of the Journeys Owners Manual under Section 6 Battery Care the manual advises you to NOT leave your coach plugged into shore power while in extended storage.

While I totally understand why its necessary to ensure the Inverter is off and that both the Chassis and Coach battery disconnects are off what is the downside of leaving the unit plugged into shore power?

Is this a Winnebago specific directive??


Thanks
Adam
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Old 11-28-2014, 08:23 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Adam Hunter View Post
Good Evening.


Our new to us Journey 34B is our 3rd DP. Just came across something that I never read before in the manuals of the other coaches that we have owned;

In the electrical section of the Journeys Owners Manual under Section 6 Battery Care the manual advises you to NOT leave your coach plugged into shore power while in extended storage.

While I totally understand why its necessary to ensure the Inverter is off and that both the Chassis and Coach battery disconnects are off what is the downside of leaving the unit plugged into shore power?

Is this a Winnebago specific directive??

Thanks
Adam
is my first impression. I am wondering if the verbiage is poor or is there another explanation in a section that may be entitled storage?

If you have the typical RV refrigerator then I could see the caution as critical. They have a nasty habit of catching on fire, but you probably are aware of this.

Do you have a disconnect switch for both battery banks? If so, once operated to off you are, technically speaking, no longer on "shore power" because nothing is working (I believe). Try shutting of the battery banks and then check for AC throughout the coach. I am trying to "think" this on through without looking at the wiring diagram. If you still have AC functioning you may have to shut off the mains to isolate the coach from the shore power. The charger is all that needs to be active to compensate for parasitic drains. This would be for the greatest protection during storage because of all the computers in the coach--TVs, etc.

All of this is pure speculation on my part. We have not prepared for this situation because we are always with the coach. It will be interesting to see what you find out through testing. Don't forget to test the battery voltages when you are in "storage" mode to see if they truly are being charged.



Rick Y
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Old 11-28-2014, 08:29 AM   #3
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I would think it OK to leave connected to shore power so long as you have a reliable 3-stage charger and some kind of EMS. In fact, I think it is preferable to leave it plugged in. \ken
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Old 11-28-2014, 08:32 AM   #4
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I replaced my original converter/charger with a three-stage charger and now keep it plugged in all the time. It has worked great. The batteries are always ready to go with no boil off. I keep the refrigerator off until the day before we use the RV. I'm not concerned about fire, but it is just not needed.
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Old 11-28-2014, 09:24 AM   #5
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I questioned this also. I was told it is because my 2013 Vista has a single stag converter. I am doing what "macnut" did and changing to a multi-stage.
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:46 AM   #6
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Leaving it plugged in with the disconnect switch off doesn't charge the batteries. That's what I did when I had a single stage (stock) converter. I'd just flip the switch on for a day every month or so to keep the batteries topped off when it was sitting.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:08 PM   #7
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Inverter panel should read Float Charge
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:25 AM   #8
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Adam, you certainly have many answers. I now suggest that you call the factory hot line or email them. Here are a couple of conflicts: Does the battery disconnect switch disconnect the charger from the battery? And, do you have a three stage inverter?

Ask the service adviser to get an explanation for you. It is not possible to store without keeping a maintenance charge on the batteries. The normal parasitic drains will kill them in a few weeks or less.
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:41 AM   #9
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If you got huge res fridge then you should have three stage charging. I have two thoughts on why this is in the manual. First you are leaving rv unattended. Winne does not know if it's in your backyard or a remote site so that may be one reason. Second is that they put this generic verbiage in all their manuals even though you rv would be fine. I suspect the first. I have mine stored in my back yard and May or may not have it plugged in.
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:43 AM   #10
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Of course, thanks for everyones answers.


Our coach is equipped with a standard version of the Magnum MS Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger. It is a 2800W model. We have the residential fridge.

As you all know, when in standby mode the Inverter operates as a charger by doing Bulk, Absorb or Float charging. There are actually 5 modes, but 3 are the most commonly referred to.

This morning I isolated the chassis batteries and the coach(house) batteries to off using the disconnect switches (with shore power ON) you get a message on the inverter panel that reads "Fault - No Comm". Once I turned the coach batteries back on the inverter returned to Standby/Float mode.

In the Winnebago Operators Supplement Manual, Magnum has provided their manual for the inverter. What's interesting is that in this appendix Magnum has 6 steps for storage preparation and battery maintenance and they include;
1. Perform battery maintenance
2. Fully charge the batteries
3. Connect AC power, insure inverter input is switched on
4. Verify inverter is OFF
5. All unnecessary AC/DC loads off
6. Disable the AGS.

Magnums instructions make sense to me. And thats why Winnebagos advice to remove shore power from the coach while in storage seemed odd?


All of that being said in a perfect world I would take the 8 batteries and put them in the heated portion of my shop - but thats just not reasonable considering that I need power in the coach from time to time and I exercise it when the weather is good and the roads are clear in the winter.


As Rick suggested I am still going to put a call out to Winnebago the first of the week for their final direction and I will add to the thread at that time.


Thanks Again.
Adam
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Hunter View Post
Of course, thanks for everyones answers.


Our coach is equipped with a standard version of the Magnum MS Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger. It is a 2800W model. We have the residential fridge.

As you all know, when in standby mode the Inverter operates as a charger by doing Bulk, Absorb or Float charging. There are actually 5 modes, but 3 are the most commonly referred to.

This morning I isolated the chassis batteries and the coach(house) batteries to off using the disconnect switches (with shore power ON) you get a message on the inverter panel that reads "Fault - No Comm". Once I turned the coach batteries back on the inverter returned to Standby/Float mode.

In the Winnebago Operators Supplement Manual, Magnum has provided their manual for the inverter. What's interesting is that in this appendix Magnum has 6 steps for storage preparation and battery maintenance and they include;
1. Perform battery maintenance
2. Fully charge the batteries
3. Connect AC power, insure inverter input is switched on
4. Verify inverter is OFF
5. All unnecessary AC/DC loads off
6. Disable the AGS.

Magnums instructions make sense to me. And thats why Winnebagos advice to remove shore power from the coach while in storage seemed odd?


All of that being said in a perfect world I would take the 8 batteries and put them in the heated portion of my shop - but thats just not reasonable considering that I need power in the coach from time to time and I exercise it when the weather is good and the roads are clear in the winter.


As Rick suggested I am still going to put a call out to Winnebago the first of the week for their final direction and I will add to the thread at that time.


Thanks Again.
Adam
Your "storage" is not what I consider true storage. You take the coach out from time to time. You are doing the best thing for your coach, in my opinion. Your original question has made for great conversation and even speculation. But in your case it is of no concern. Just do what that great Magnum manual recommends and your batteries will be happy. Even loading the AGM's from time to time is good for them. And, don't forget the generator. It likes to play too . The Magnum is one of the best inverters on the market, in my opinion. Coupled with the Onan, you have a great electrical system for dry-docking. I run the AGS from time to time for testing and I love it. It is so reliable and the batteries hold for 8+ hours if only lights are used. I get about 4 hrs before the genset fires if we cook with the microwave.

I think, by your attitude, you are going to be a very happy camper. I know your coach is going to fair well by you.

Happy trails, Adam, and many of them.

Rick Y
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Old 11-30-2014, 11:00 AM   #12
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Thanks Rick,


Wish it was warm enough here is S. Ontario to use it all winter. But that's another story.

I put 3 100W trouble lights on the battery banks too. 1 on the chassis batteries and 2 on the coach batteries. I found over the years its just enough to keep the battery banks out of the really frigid air. Its surprising how much a lightbulb can do to keep things warm.

Thanks for your input about the AGS.

One last question while we are on this battery topic;

I notice the passengers console lights stay illuminated at the switch panel next to the entrance door when I have the coach batteries on. Is there any way to shut these backlights off?




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Old 12-01-2014, 07:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Adam Hunter View Post
Thanks Rick,


Wish it was warm enough here is S. Ontario to use it all winter. But that's another story.

I put 3 100W trouble lights on the battery banks too. 1 on the chassis batteries and 2 on the coach batteries. I found over the years its just enough to keep the battery banks out of the really frigid air. Its surprising how much a lightbulb can do to keep things warm.

Thanks for your input about the AGS.

One last question while we are on this battery topic;

I notice the passengers console lights stay illuminated at the switch panel next to the entrance door when I have the coach batteries on. Is there any way to shut these backlights off?




Thanks
Adam
Your welcome, Adam.

You do live in a beautiful province. But with that said... You must still be working because your there in the WINTER ! BURRRRrrrrr.

I think the LED in the switches is integrated. On my coach, only those selected illuminate. Are all of yours on? Only my battery disconnect switches stay lit when selected.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:02 AM   #14
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Thanks Rick,
I notice the passengers console lights stay illuminated at the switch panel next to the entrance door when I have the coach batteries on. Is there any way to shut these backlights off?
No and I don't know why Winnie did this. I modified my RV to turn them off. One of the pushbutton CB under the bed control these lights along with the bay lights under the RV. I removed the terminal off the back of all the CB until I found the one that turned off the lights. I then installed a toggle switch in the blank CB hole (used for RV fridge) and ran that circuit thru that switch. Sucks to crawl underneath there to turn them on/off but it does work. I many try to hunt down the circuit later and put the switch in a blank panel on the pass counsel.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:05 AM   #15
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BTW, while I was behind that CB panel I saw a unused wire used for the RV Fridge (I got a res fridge so that circuit is not used). If you open the exterior door to drain the Icemaker on your res fridge you will find the other end of that wire. I used it to add a 12V plug to the bedroom located near the TV. I use that plug for my portable Fantastic Fan and my TPMS while driving down the road.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:47 PM   #16
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Thanks zman-az

I appreciate the info about the lights at the passenger side console. I will put that on my to-do list for this winter.


Adam.
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:03 PM   #17
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No and I don't know why Winnie did this. I modified my RV to turn them off. One of the pushbutton CB under the bed control these lights along with the bay lights under the RV. I removed the terminal off the back of all the CB until I found the one that turned off the lights. I then installed a toggle switch in the blank CB hole (used for RV fridge) and ran that circuit thru that switch. Sucks to crawl underneath there to turn them on/off but it does work. I many try to hunt down the circuit later and put the switch in a blank panel on the pass counsel.
Seeing that this is on a dedicated circuit could you not ID the feed to the switches in that console and place your switch there?

My back lights only come on when I turn the dash lights on. I do see your setup in a positive because you know which switch is which in the dark. I have had to memorize mine. I don't know how long these will last if illuminated all the time. If LED there should be no problems for a long time.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:52 PM   #18
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Seeing that this is on a dedicated circuit could you not ID the feed to the switches in that console and place your switch there?
I could not identify the feed line for the switches in the console. There was a separate wire to each illuminated switch that went into a bundle and I could not locate where they all terminate at. I then went to the breaker and pulled wires until I found the circuit. Installing the toggle switch there took me 5 minutes to install (and I can remove it just as easy). Unfortunately all the drawing on the Winnie site do not show me how this circuit is wired in detail. At some point I do want to get the switch located up front, there is a blank switch spot and it sure would make things easier. I also need to find a supplier of the switch being used on the console as it has a slight curve to it.
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