Salesman Switch

Journey cat · 08-15-2020, 03:28 PM

Ive searched and can not find a replacement .
Id like to purchase a new Salesman switch
Ive had mine apart and cleaned the contacts .
Although I have to press it several times for it to work
For a 2005 Winnebago Journey .
Second switch down . Right side of instrument cluster
Part number or a link would be of great help

Morich · 08-15-2020, 04:28 PM

On that year all the parts show a Winn number but I have found there may be a Carling or other manufacturer number on the side of the switch if you have not pulled it out yet. That number may give you a chance to get it locally or from other places at a better price.
But before getting there, check these pictures to verify it is the one you mention.
Nothing from the internet should be trusted until verified!!!
And my drawings and snips are certainly in that group.

Clicking the pictures may make them come up bigger and better to read?

Journey cat · 08-15-2020, 07:05 PM

I did come up with that number
Although in reading the description makes me un certain in its function .
Here are two I found . Can you make sense of there description ?
I believe the Original Owner must have fooled with it also as the name & numbers are not legible
Although I do believe its a Carling

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carling-Con...EAAOSwfXFaqL1Y

AND

https://www.boatersmarinesupply.com/...iABEgJgj_D_BwE

Journey cat · 08-15-2020, 07:15 PM

Can this help ?

Wyatt · 08-15-2020, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey cat

Ive searched and can not find a replacement .
Id like to purchase a new Salesman switch
Ive had mine apart and cleaned the contacts .
Although I have to press it several times for it to work
For a 2005 Winnebago Journey .
Second switch down . Right side of instrument cluster
Part number or a link would be of great help

Ok another new one for me. What’s a “Salesman” switch?

Morich · 08-15-2020, 08:46 PM

That one looks like it has been beat up pretty good but I do see "carling switch" as the top line. Somewhere in there it says made in Mexico, maybe? But the really important stuff may be the next line maybe 20-and what we really would like to know!
I have an idea that this switch as listed is used to move a solenoid or relay which "latches" using a magnet. That lets us push the button and it moves the relay say to closed so that we get all the coach stuff powered but since the switch is a momentary, when we let go of the switch, we stop using battery power but the magnet in the relay keeps it where we last had it, like closed. But we can't use that same set of wires in the same way to open the relay except they are really tricky and put tow wires at the other set of two contacts and reverse the polarity!
Getting into guessing at things without being sure but this is what I "think" I'm seeing:
This gets tough to follow but if you look at the last picture of the E-bay you show, it shows the six contact lugs on the back of the switch. The battery and ground I think are connected to the center pair of lugs and when we push it one way those connect to one set of the outer lugs. Does your switch have one end to push for on and the other for off? Push one way one set of two is connected momentarily, push the other and it connects to the other set which they have reversed and that makes the disconnect happen.
Pushed one way sends power to the relay coil, makes it move and the magnet holds it when we let off the switch. Then pushed again in the other way, it makes the relay move back to where it started! Coach battery connected or not connected!!
So the trick becomes finding exactly the right switch and the Ebay one is kind of close but not momentarty, so it would always be using battery and not what you need.
Can you feel if your current switch flips and stays like most light switches or does it feel like it kind of bounces back after you flip it?
This is getting pretty deep into my guessing and I would not want to recommend a switch without knowing more about it, so some questions may help.
Oneis if you have a meter to tell which contacts connect to the others and if they are momentary and connected only when you push or do they stay connected? How's the experience level? Some of that testing make sense or do we need to work around to another way?
Carling makes about a thousand different switches and only one is the right one, so we need to look really carefully or we waste time and money, getting nothing done!
I wonder what you might get if you were to call Winnebago and explain that we can't read the Carling number , if they might choke up that info real easy?
Meanwhile, can you get enough wire pulled out to read the code stamped on the side of the wires? Something like I've marked in blue and maybe 2 or 3 letters? We can ID the wires if you can read that. Also some more info on your exact model as there are five different models, so easier if we start with looking at the right one.
Glad to help if I can but it is a tricky one with the limited info we have on hand for exact switch.
Maybe wire ID like these?
Try clicking the pictures to make them better to read?

Journey cat · 08-15-2020, 09:29 PM

LOL Something that should be so easy NOt in my world though .
I do think I found one or two that match .
As you state , there are many
Tomorrow Ill identify the wires and remove the switch also
Ive spent quite a bit of time going through them all .

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...tches&_sacat=0

Wyatt · 08-15-2020, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyatt

Ok another new one for me. What’s a “Salesman” switch?

Ok, I’ll try again. I’m familiar with those switches—they fall apart easily and can also easily be reconstructed.

So I guess my real question is, “Why’s it called a salesman switch”?

Morich · 08-16-2020, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyatt

Ok, I’ll try again. I’m familiar with those switches—they fall apart easily and can also easily be reconstructed.

So I guess my real question is, “Why’s it called a salesman switch”?

Good question and this is the only place I've seen the term but it seems logical that a really good salesman might want to kill the coach battery drain when the unit was on the lot, but that brings the question of how many of them do actually try that hard. I find it pretty normal for them to explain that things won't work because the batteries are run down! Once I got more used to shopping for Motorhomes, I was able to spot the fact that a lot of them do not have much idea about what they are selling and having run down batteries was a simple way for them to avoid knowing which switch does what!

My big thought overnight was to ask about how sure you are that the switch is the failure! With this semi-goofy feeling battery and ground reverse thing, I found the switch to be terribly confusing the first time I came across one.
With this relay that is supposed to latch or hold the last place it was moved (open or closed) it seems like it might be really easy to think a switch had bad contacts which were intermittent when it might actually be the relay not being consistent.
Another thought on ID of the switch, might be if you had another switch of the same type, how hard is it to get a different switch out of the dash to see if you could read the Carling number?
I can do a check of drawings to see if I can locate any other drawings that use that and might give us more info for ordering specifics. One of the odd things about drawings that are put out by the same company but different times may give different amounts of info on the same items. Hit and miss but there might be a nugget in there somewhere!
For shopping, the switch will need to be a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) as it has to have two poles (Middle two contacts) and be able to throw or move two ways (two sets of outer contacts) but where it gets really hard to find is that it has to be momentary on each throw or move and I suspect those are really not too common.
DPDT mom-off-mom might be the "official" label.

Morich · 08-16-2020, 07:54 AM

Do you have a dash mounted slideout switch, located down low and next to the right side of the steering column? If so, that switch appears to be the same type listed as 108357-06-000. Any chance of seeing a number on one of those?
OR? As a further thought, one way to say if it is the switch or the relay FOR SURE is to swap one of the slideout switches for the suspect switch. But whether that is practical depends on how difficult it is to do, so just a thought for you. On the first drawing clip I posted, the top number ten is the same as the two down lower, also number ten!
Sometimes there is so much info on a drawing that I only see the one spot that I'm looking at right then???

Journey cat · 08-16-2020, 10:55 AM

I have replaced the relay in recent past . The last time I cleaned the switch ..
I cleaned it again this morning . This time paying more attention to the contacts in the switch bottom . I was able to get down to the botton but its difficult .
Also I checked the other switches on the dash . None seem to be the same .
I will call Winnebago and see if Ii can get a number for it . As I wont be comfortable until I get a new one . As previouslly said , The Original Owner had been in there fooling with more than one switch .
The bottom line is that I have this one working normal at least for now .
And on E Bay . I do believe This one should be correct ,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carling-Tec...53.m1438.l2649

Here also are a few pictures of the switch and wires . FWIW

Morich · 08-16-2020, 12:45 PM

Good show! I like to see a guy bold enough to really get down to the nitty gritty of "what's in there?"
That further than I got as I did not want to tear it down any further so I am glad to see what's there.
But this is where things get a bit messy and I found the same problem when looking at my wiring and switch as the code on the wires did not match what is shown on the wire ID list. I see LG and LH on the wires and on the list as going from the relay to the switch, LG being to engage and LH to disengage. But those with two letters and a number do not show in the codes, leaving me guessing what and where they went.
Then on the ordering, I might want to ask first if that switch is described exactly right. Sometimes E-bay sellers are not really into knowing what they are selling and can miss the tiny small but critical parts.
The way on-off-on should technically (for what I understand of Carling?) be a switch which is not momentary as momentary is what you need but should be shown as (on)-off-(on). So it brings the question of being actually momentary and the seller just missed and a tiny techie things or is it actually a snap action that stays on after you hit the switch.
I'm getting way over into your end of the dealing with buying a replacement but those are things I might want to confirm to avoid getting something that won't work. Buying on E-bay can be great but it can be full of potholes, so I'm backing away from saying yeah or ney on the switch choice!
Too chicken to say it's right but that is not lots of money if it would work. We've probably both done worse gambles. This is a site which offers options from their store that we might not find and it looks from here as if their item 12951 might be what I see as correct:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carling-3-P...EAAOSwoydWoD4f

But near twice the price!

Journey cat · 08-16-2020, 01:01 PM

Ill call either Winnebago , or Lichtsinn . Or both to pick there brain ,
Here was the response from that seller

New message from: 54craig (781Purple Star)
On the opposite side from the printed info there might be some stamped or raised letters & numbers. These should tell you which switch it is. My listing has the number in it VJD1. It looks like the same switch. On-Off-On six pins no light. Just to be sure it stays on in the up and down position.

Thank you
Craig

Morich · 08-16-2020, 02:04 PM

This one might be a winner?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Position-....c100008.m2219
You do want it to be momentary contact on both up and down and this one is in black!

Journey cat · 08-16-2020, 02:57 PM

Although , It has plastic dividers between the terminals . where as mine does not ,rather it has a locating pin . Good try Ive seen that one also .
I'll be a calling tomorrow for info

jerichorick · 08-23-2020, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey cat

Although , It has plastic dividers between the terminals . where as mine does not ,rather it has a locating pin . Good try Ive seen that one also .
I'll be a calling tomorrow for info

Try these folks: https://www.lichtsinn.com/
Give them your RV SN and what part you want and they will find it for you if it is available. Winnebago is not providing parts as they used to.
Rick Y

Journey cat · 08-23-2020, 07:30 PM

That is what I did .
Lichtsinn , and shipping was quick .
There has been some changes in the labeling , so here is a picture for others to see if they should need one
The cost with shipping was only $15
Problem is now solved . I installed the new one and kept the re conditioned one as an emergency spare

Captdennis · 05-04-2021, 10:41 AM

This happened in another guys coach so I know what it is but I can't find it. I have no power to the ignition switch or the house batteries??

Morich · 05-04-2021, 11:44 AM

Some background to see if we are all speaking the same?
Salesman switch is used by some to describe the "AUX" or coach battery disconnect switch is usually designed to cut off much of the coach load like lights, fans and pumps to slow running down the batteries on the coach side when we store the RV.

Note that they should NOT disconnect things on the start battery which involves the ignition switch and starting, the things we normally find on a car or truck.

But for info on the switch, it seems to be shown here. Click to get a better view on computer. Point to know on Winnebago is that they often call the coach battery and system by "aux or "auxiliary" as it is a second power system from the main normal auto system.

What I'm getting at is that there are two systems and you mention trouble with both the ignition/start and the coach. RV tend to have more battery trouble than most cars ,due to the way we often let them set for so long, so a good place to start is often checking the batteries themselves as they are what make relays, solenoids and such move things further down the line. Before getting too deep into a switch or relay that doesn't work, make sure it has power from the batteries to do the work!