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Old 07-22-2022, 02:11 PM   #1
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reverse polarity?

New to the class C motorhome. We picked up View 24D. I hooked a dogbone (110 to 30A), then a 30A surge protector. All read good. Plugged in the RV to turn on the AC to cool while we were getting ready and tripped the circuit breaker in the house (15A). I flipped the circuit breaker and now the surge protector is reading reverse polarity?? Once I unplugged the View and put the dogbone and surge protector back in the outlet, now reading normal. Thoughts?

Obviously not going to plug it back in that way again! Ideally would run a 30A service to the garage...

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Old 07-22-2022, 03:51 PM   #2
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You might watch for anything suspect as you go along but if I read that all is okay after plugging in a second time, I think you may just be a bit of "victim" of too much good stuff trying to watch out for trouble.

If it is working okay now, sounds like the surge protector just got it's little mind confused when it saw a bit of something it didn't like.
If we go with what it told you, the wires in the house outlet were wired reversed and then when you plugged in the second it time says it is NOT reversed so that doesn't work out if nobody changed the outlet and you didn't tell us?

Mechanical brains are great---until they are not!

A point that may come up is that the AC may be running pretty close to all the 15 amp breaker can handle, some do, some don't, so when close the surge may be more inclined to do goofy things.

Part of the problem can be that the house has a different ground on the outlet than the RV which has a ground to the frame and also to the cord, so that there are times when the grounding gets wierd. Especially seems to happen when we use a generator.

If all seems okay, I don't worry this one more as it is possibly just working the protection a little too close?
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Old 07-22-2022, 05:27 PM   #3
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A reverse polarity indication is common when a neutral opens and there is still a load present. When a neutral opens and a load is present the normally zero potential on the neutral rises to full line voltage and tricks the test device because it now sees 120 volts on the neutral and this is also what happens with reverse polarity, so it gives a reverse polarity indication.
If I had to guess I would say the heavy load on the 15 amp circuit found a weak point along the circuit somewhere and it is now compromised, likely a backstabbed receptacle. It is very common for a backstab to pop out on a heavily loaded residential circuit and a likely scenario if your house has backstabbed outlets, which most do unless it is a very old house. The other possibility is a loose screw on one of the outlets in the string, or if it is on a GFCI, some of those don't always fully reset and leave the neutral open. (the ones with the black & red buttons)
If a bad backstab is the case it will rear it's head again I can guarantee you of that, if so I will explain the easiest way to find it without tearing everything apart, if you are handy and feel comfortable trouble shooting.
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:03 AM   #4
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Just to be clear, you used a 15A to 30A dogbone not a "110 to 30A" dogbone. Both 15A and 30A shore power supplies provide something between 110V to 120V, only the breaker size is different. Things change with 50A shore power. It provides two separate 110V to 120V 50A supplies, not 220V to 240V as some assume. A 50A to 30A dogbone will pass through only one of the two 110V to 120V supplies.
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Old 07-23-2022, 10:35 PM   #5
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I'm learning some new terms here -

What is a "Dogbone"? Is that just a term used to describe an adapter to go from a standard 15/20 amp outlet to the 30 amp outlet? I have one of those I use to plug the MH into an extension cord.

"Backstabbed outlets", never heard that term before. All the standard house outlets I have ever used either have a screw terminal for the wires or a spring clamp that allows for the insertion of the wire in a hole. Is that spring terminal Called a "backstab" perhaps?
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Old 07-23-2022, 10:39 PM   #6
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By the way, I'm able to start and run my AC on the 15amp house circuit I have plugged in. I monitored the AC voltage drop since I have a 100 foot extension (12 gauge) I get about 110-113 volts with the AC running. Notably, the starting surge does not trip the breaker in my panel which is another 50-60 feet away. I only ran for testing, no more than about 5 minutes.
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Old 07-24-2022, 07:12 AM   #7
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a spring clamp that allows for the insertion of the wire in a hole. Is that spring terminal Called a "backstab" perhaps?
Yes, the ones with the spring clamp are called "backstabbed" by most electricians, not to be confused with the commercial style ones that have holes and pressure plates with screws that clamp down on the wire which are called "backwired".
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Old 07-24-2022, 09:27 AM   #8
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Yes, the ones with the spring clamp are called "backstabbed" by most electricians, not to be confused with the commercial style ones that have holes and pressure plates with screws that clamp down on the wire which are called "backwired".
I've never seen an outlet that only has a backstabbed connection. They always have screw connections as well. From what I've read, the backstabbed connection is less reliable than the screw connection and the commercial variety is the best alternative.

And, yes, "dogbone" is a common term for an adapter, be it 15A/30A or another combination.
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Old 07-24-2022, 09:30 AM   #9
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By the way, I'm able to start and run my AC on the 15amp house circuit I have plugged in. I monitored the AC voltage drop since I have a 100 foot extension (12 gauge) I get about 110-113 volts with the AC running. Notably, the starting surge does not trip the breaker in my panel which is another 50-60 feet away. I only ran for testing, no more than about 5 minutes.
When I first got my RV I ran a 50' outdoor extension to a 15 to 50 dogbone and ran one of my A/Cs for overnight. The next morning the breaker had tripped and the plug in the house receptacle was blackened and the ends of the plug softened.

The next day I called the electrician and had a 30-amp RV plug installed. The total cost was only $210 and it's come in very handy ever since. More than earned back it's cost over the past 5-yrs.
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Old 07-24-2022, 09:55 AM   #10
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The next day I called the electrician and had a 30-amp RV plug installed. The total cost was only $210 and it's come in very handy ever since. More than earned back it's cost over the past 5-yrs.
This is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately, my 200A house service is maxed out now that I've converted to all-electric heat pump HVAC, so check your capacity first.
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Old 07-24-2022, 10:04 AM   #11
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This is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately, my 200A house service is maxed out now that I've converted to all-electric heat pump HVAC, so check your capacity first.
This explains why God made generators Bob. Lol.
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Old 07-24-2022, 10:26 AM   #12
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This is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately, my 200A house service is maxed out now that I've converted to all-electric heat pump HVAC, so check your capacity first.
This is something that needs a good look before deciding things are maxed out. Not saying you are wrong as you certainly may have had it checked and lots depends on the details and codes, local practice, etc.

But when we look at things from a novice standpoint, it is easy to assume the 200 amp can only feed the total of the working smaller breakers. That is not always true as many of those 15-20 amp breaker are never going to carry that much current, often they are not used at all!
Consider all the house outlets that have nothing connected in them but are protected by 15 or 20 amp breakers.
The electric stove may have a 50 amp breaker but is only using current while we cook.
So the decision of a 200 amp servive being full is more complex than just looking at the breakers and adding the total to find it exceeds 200!

Maybe full but also worth having a trained person do some checking if you really want/need an RV outlet?

This RV load center for example, has a 30 amp total main breaker but feeds far more than that if we only total the subbreakers. 75 or more?

Sometimes we think of the load as being maxed when all the slots for new breakers are full but then the details can be solved by adding a new small box, even for that one item we want or changing the breakers around.

Experience in how to "skin the cat" is what they get paid to do!
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Old 07-24-2022, 10:43 AM   #13
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This is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately, my 200A house service is maxed out now that I've converted to all-electric heat pump HVAC, so check your capacity first.
If you can free up breaker space, you can do it. An RV hookup is not a load and doesn't figure into load calculations, as Richard explained, load diversity is what enables us to fill a 200 amp panel with 600 amps or more worth of breakers. In order to determine if a service is maxed out a load calculation needs to be done, it is a mathematical calculation on paper, not actual load testing of the house.
Previous codes in the US limited our panels to 42 circuits, however code changes now allow more in new panels. If your old panel has 42 circuits you can also install a small sub panel next to it and gain more space.
Load calculations are there to guide you in sizing of a service, actual usage varies from family to family but even an undersized service is more of an inconvenience than it is a hazard. You would have a pretty hard time overloading a 200 amp service in most houses under 4,000 square feet and when houses get that big the normally get 400 amp services anyway.
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Old 07-24-2022, 10:46 AM   #14
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I've never seen an outlet that only has a backstabbed connection. They always have screw connections as well. From what I've read, the backstabbed connection is less reliable than the screw connection and the commercial variety is the best alternative.

And, yes, "dogbone" is a common term for an adapter, be it 15A/30A or another combination.
When the backstabbed outlets first appeared they had no screws, and they were listed for 15 or 20 amps. Although now they are listed only for 15 amp circuits on #14 wire, and most have screws however you can still find the Decora style with no screws. I know because I accidentally grabbed some at Home Depot.
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Old 07-25-2022, 08:55 PM   #15
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OK, dogbone and backstab terms are now understood, Thanks!

I only wanted to test the AC, so no problem for me.

At my former home I was out of panel space when I wanted a 240 connection for my Tig welder. So, since the breaker for the backup heating element (heat pump) was the proper size I just paralleled that circuit for my tig extension. For 3/4 of the year there is no possibility of needing the backup heating coil. During the winter when I wanted to TIG I just turned off the upstairs heatpump while welding. Same thing for the Arc welder.

The house I'm in now had lots of unused space, so when remodeling we added a couple of 20a circuits plus the 240 for welding.

I plan to run a 50a service out to the MH, just waiting on the Son to bring over the trencher. 100ft of red clay and tree roots is not going to get hand dug. I'll run power and water in the same trench.
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Old 07-28-2022, 05:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottD View Post
New to the class C motorhome. We picked up View 24D. I hooked a dogbone (110 to 30A), then a 30A surge protector. All read good. Plugged in the RV to turn on the AC to cool while we were getting ready and tripped the circuit breaker in the house (15A). I flipped the circuit breaker and now the surge protector is reading reverse polarity?? Once I unplugged the View and put the dogbone and surge protector back in the outlet, now reading normal. Thoughts?

Obviously not going to plug it back in that way again! Ideally would run a 30A service to the garage...

Thanks --

Scott D
2022 View 24D
Being a new rig, my first thought is to disconnect your power cord, go to where it is connected to your coach and make certain all of the connections are tight. If you have a ATS this is a know problem. With the ATS situation you want to make certain the generator breaker is off. You don't want to be in the box if the generator goes live.
The pedestal could have a problem in the making. Ask the park to open up and inspect the outlet. If it looks old ask for it to be replaced. The contacts could be burnt from years of misuse. Plugging in with the breaker on is to advisable.
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