Power Stations Instead of More Batteries

[bpcannan]

This is a question I trying to think thru - and am open to any thoughts...

With introduction of more powerful and feature filed LiFePO4 power stations at a competitive price does it make sense to incorporate one of these for of-grid RVing as opposed to adding more batteries? I have been aware of Jackery and some others but I caught a couple of YouTube videos about Dabbson and their incorporation of the RV TT30 connector.

So here's my situation -> Class A diesel 2010 Journey Express 34y
- 300 AH of LiFePO4 batteries (Battleborn)
- 3000W Victron multiplus inverter
- about to add 400 or 600 Watts of rooftop solar (CIGS flat panel as they are tough to destroy, shade tolerant and decent power - and got them new for a VERY low price, <$0.40/watt)

So I thinking should I add more batteries or get a 2200 watt Dabbsson Power Station (54 lbs) that has a TT30 connection that I could hook my 50AMP cable to with a dogbone and have 30 AMP service in the coach - it's like the typical 30 AMP connection you get in a state park.

Thoughts:
- at $1800 MSRP or $900 on Amazon today for DBS 2100 it is far less expensive that adding 3 Battleborn batteries (you need to stay with same brand and type as I understand it when expanding) $2250 for 3 X 100AH at today's pricing plus cables and labor.

- I can run my basement AC on 30 AMP with a few amps to spare when on 30 AMP shorepower...it takes about 23 AMPS...but am trying to figure out the calculations for see how many hours I might get with the power station. (23 AMPs x 120 Volts =2760 Watts, so <1 hour -is that right?)

The battery draw down if running the microwave 15AMPs is very fast so really can't do that well on the 300 AH of battery.

The Victron Multiplus will kick in briefly to supply power if I creep past the 30 AMP for a few moments.

The Dabbsson app lets me turn on/off the 30 AMP service so I not constantly having it on doing nothing, whch if I have it doing nothing will still draw 30 watts/hour.

Recharging could be done via Solar or via the 12Volt port in the RV while driving to next destination or managed by DC to DC charger installed so my batteries recharge while driving

Questions:
Anyone have experience using the TT30 connection on a power station with their RV, Class A or Class C? Would you share it?

Anyone have any advice on how to organize my thinking - somehow I feel like I have info but have not structured it yet so I can think it thru logically.

Thanks for any insights.
Brian

[Ontario Don]

Hi Brian - Great topic for conversation. I don't have any experience using a power station to augment the electrical system on our RV, but I have given it lots of thought over the past few years.

I noticed that you are comparing this power station to 3 battle born batteries. I think you are giving the Dabbson more credit than it deserves. Looking at the lithium battery that powers a station of this size, the 2150 watt hours (or maybe 2200 watt hours for the other brand), is equivalent to about one and a half of our Battle Born 100 AH batteries. Assuming the battery in your power station has a working output of 13.4 volts to its built in inverter, that is about 160 AH capability. So, not even two battle born batteries. If I got the 13.4 volts wrong, and it actually is 12.6 volts similar to the DC port output it advertises, then it works out to 170 AH, still less than 2 battle born batteries. So maybe you should be comparing it to 2 new Battle Borns when you run your numbers?

I believe your air conditioning calcs are correct. At a 23 amp draw, a battery with only a 2150 watt hour capability, is not going to last an hour when powering your air conditioner. (I'm not sure how Dabbsson get 2400 watts capability once the battery voltage is inverted to AC; but somebody out there might know...)

For us, having two 100 AH Battle Borns, already having an inverter in the coach and not needing another, having solar on the roof to do some replenishment, already having all the USB ports we needed, not needing any more DC output, and only using the microwave or heavy AC loads for brief periods, meant that maybe a portable power station was going to be more trouble than it was worth when compared to adding 2 more batteries that we could install and forget about.

We don't have somewhere permanent in our Class C that we could install a power station, and that was going to mean moving a 54 lb brick around and likely taking it outside to be useful. My back does not like 54 lb bricks any more.

Bottom line for us, it was just not going to be as convenient as installing two more batteries and moving on...

Having said all of that, we never did install two more batteries. Our requirement to do extreme dry camping during the winter came to an end, but running the Onan and charging at 80 amps was pretty effective at keeping us operational. But we did give it some thought ... and for us it all came down to the inconvenience of adding about one and a half times the performance of a new battery but having to deal with something else to carry around, maintain, and store somewhere, with features that we did not need.

Likely there are others out there who have actual power station experience to share.

Cheers,

[bpcannan]

Thanks for some things to think about and think through. Definitely. I also a few others chime in as well.
Brian

[creativepart]

To me, it makes no sense to use a “power station” in place of greater battery storage. With a power station you are paying for an inverter, Charger, outlets and fuses you already have, when all you need is more battery storage.

Remember, just because a power station has a 30-amp receptacle does not make it the same as a gas generator or shore power.

[bpcannan]

Thanks. As I look at your comment and Ontario Don's I am beginning to think a bit differently about the power station concept. Still some thinking yet. I appreciate your inputs.

[bpcannan]

As I think a bit more, my interest in this was piqued because of the expense of adding 3 more Battleborn 100AH batteries to boost those I have compared to the expense and potential power in one of these power stations. Then again, with EcoFlow rolling out their own 100AH LiFePO4 battery (Will Prowse review I saw the other day here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhHsEL8Pxr8

) and Amazon selling them for roughly $200 each I could replace my 3 Battleborn with 6 of the EcoFlow for $1200 instead of adding 3 more Battleborn at roughly $$2300.

Hmmmmm....

[bigb]

I've thought about building a power station with some of the new, low priced batteries available now. There are a few tutorials out there. I don't plan for a TT-30, just a way to power something with a 15 amp plug directly. Possibly a small fridge when I travel by pickup truck with a camper shell once a year, and a weed wacker when I do yard work at my rentals.

[creativepart]

I upgraded to LFP batteries in 2022. I installed 2-200ah Renogy 8D sized batteries. After about a year I noticed some oddities. The batteries never seemed to balance or start and stop at the same time. By stop and start I mean that the batteries automatically went to sleep after 30 min of non-use. But one battery didn't want to wake up when a charge current was applied. It would start up and immediately go back to sleep.

I contacted Renogy and returned the bad battery. They refunded the full purchase price (not quickly or easily but they did it).

When I bought the Renogys they were $995 each. Rather than buy another 200 amp hour battery I removed the one good battery and bought a Epoch 460 ah battery for $1200. So, for only an additional $200 I more than doubled my amp hours. The Epoch has Bluetooth, have low/high temp cutoffs and a built in heater.

I know I could sell that remaining Renogy for probably $300-$400 but I'm hanging on to it for now.

My point is... you could easily sell those BattleBorns and buy a lot more amp hours for not a whole lot of money. .

[bpcannan]

Thanks 'creativepart'

[powercat_ras]

The issues with power station vs standalone LiFe04 batteries approach I see:

- you need large amps of 12 volt DC for your 3,000 watt inverter. Are there any power stations that have direct access to 12 volts at more than 10 amps? The ones I have seen only have a 12 volt accessory outlet rated at 10 amps.

- You can get a very good quality 12 volt LiFe04 for well under $ 300. No reason to spend $ 600 on BattleBorns anymore. Personally I have been using 100 AH LiFe04 batteries branded LISAUTELI with internal low temperature protection that currently cost $ 170 with shipping. 12V 100Ah MINI Bluetooth LiFePO4 Lithium Battery, Deep Cycle Battery with Upgraded 100A BMS, Max 1280W Energy, Up to 15000 Cycles & 10-Year Lifespan for RV, Solar

[bpcannan]

Thanks. I think I am coming to the same conclusion - the power station idea I was evaluating is not sensible for my rig. The other idea of replacing my 3 Battleborn 100 AH batteries with 6 lower cost and decent quality 100 AH for less money than adding 3 more Battleborns has me really intrigued.

I appreciate the comments that have helped me out here.

[powercat_ras]

There's no reason you can't mix 12 volt LiFe04 batteries of different brands, no reason to replace your existing ones. There are slight variations in the BMS of each battery, same brand or not, that will cause them each battery to cut off slightly different points when approaching 100% charge, and that will cause them to cut off discharge when approaching 0 % percent charge.

[bpcannan]

Interesting as it runs counter to some of my early reading which indicated you shouldn't mix 100AH and 200AH in a single app, but has been less clear about mixing 100AH brands ina single app.

It's worth some more investigation and maybe some input from Battleborn (though I suspect their answer, it might be good to hear it.)
Thanks

[creativepart]

The thing I worry about is mixing new batteries with old batteries AND mixing different batteries with differing BMSs. For instance many LFP batteries have a BMS set up for 13.5v "float" charge while others can be 13.6v or even 13.8v. So, I'd try to mix batteries with as close as possible charge profiles. But that's just me.

I worry most about the old battery / new battery thing.

[bpcannan]

Right, the differing BMS and voltage settings come up as things to be aware of in research so far. The mixing of ‘old and new’ is next on my list. My Battleborn were installed in Feb 2021, 3.5 years. With a life of 10,000 cycles in them, even if I cycled them everyday, I’d only be about 10% of cycles, while realistically I might 1%. So I need to figure out how old is old? Is it measured in time or cycles?

Thanks

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by bpcannan

So I need to figure out how old is old? Is it measured in time or cycles?

Ask Battleborn... I think I've seen them say one year old or less when matching with new batteries. But that may not be a hard and fast rule.

[Ray,IN]

Running an A/C air conditioner on battery power long enough to be practical is not yet a sound idea.
A man on rvforum.net spend thousands and many man-hours perfecting a battery system to accomplish what you desire. The end result was burning down his RV when something went wrong. BTW, he is a wealthy inventor.


Battery strength/status is measured in resistance per cell when charging. (my opinion)

[Tony65]

Originally Posted by creativepart

To me, it makes no sense to use a “power station” in place of greater battery storage. With a power station you are paying for an inverter, Charger, outlets and fuses you already have, when all you need is more battery storage.

Remember, just because a power station has a 30-amp receptacle does not make it the same as a gas generator or shore power.

It's all true.

I had the same problem and after due evaluation I understood that it cost less to install LiFePO4 batteries, moreover I would have had much more power available than the power station.

So I installed 3 lithium batteries of 400 Ah.

What can I say? Fantastic!

A whole other life compared to the Jurassic lead batteries.