Pictures from a body shop... - Page 2

Steve N Sal · 10-15-2012, 04:42 AM

Wow that can't be good. Hope all turns out OK.

smlranger · 10-15-2012, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonK

Just curious, don't have a horse in the race, but does anyone know if Winne has changed the design to eliminate this problem?

I believe at least the newer Tour's/Ellipse's have the windshield set in the fiberglass cap. Perhaps someone with one of these newer models will weigh in on that.

movin-on · 10-15-2012, 05:14 AM

Winnebago isn't the only one with windshield problems....

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/mona...eld-97020.html

Wannabe · 10-15-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movin-on

Winnebago isn't the only one with windshield problems....

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/mona...eld-97020.html

I had a 2008 Monaco and I had some concerns about the windshield being set in the fiberglass instead of steel. Naturally Monaco had no rust problems, but the windshield was prone to pop out (often while driving). I personally had no problems.

I bought the Tour with the steel windshield frame being a plus until I read about all the rust. Winnebago assured me that the new design of the single windshield solved the problem. Time will tell.

It does look like an aluminum frame would be a good answer for all motor home builders. I wonder what Prevost uses?

PS: I checked their website and they use "stainless steel" for the structure. Problem solved!

doit2010 · 10-15-2012, 09:39 AM

Thanks to ALL for throwing out some $$$ amounts, that helps one to know what they might expect. Yes I fully understand that each case is different and the shops charge may differ, but now we have an idea of cost.
Thanks

kb7uxe · 10-29-2012, 12:07 AM

I can tell you from first hand experiace, this seems to be common to Wiebagos, and the glass guy knew about it. Billed me extra for "griding" and metal prep, but the glass leaked anyway. other mfg use a rubber gasket to seal the windshield, but Winnebago glues it to a steel frame like a car.
I believe the gasket would be better as it allows everything to "flex"..
Oh well, I like my Vectra, and will "endeavor to persevere" and enjoy the ride.

JMonroe · 10-29-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb7uxe

...I believe the gasket would be better as it allows everything to "flex"...

Have you seen the threads about windshields literally popping out of their rubber gaskets?

The windshields in cars and trucks have been glued to the steel structure for years. In fact, the windshield is considered part of the structural integrity of the vehicle which requires use of the appropriate materials and adhesives when being replaced. Seems to me the steel simply is not sufficiently coated/protected. The paint/finish has to fail before the moisture can get to the metal. Another question for the engineers, how is the water getting behind the glass in the first place?

I know the windshield in our Revolution is glued to the structure. So far I've not heard of an American Coach with this problem, but maybe I've just missed it? I'll let you know in another 8 or 10 years how it's worked out.

HappyGuy · 10-29-2012, 01:46 PM

Ok, dumb question. My 84 Blazer had zero rust behind the windshield. Same for my 97 chevy pickup and a 2000 Nissan Pathfinder. I was shopping for a Class A Winnie specifically because of the added security of the steel framing but if they can't seal the glass then that could be a real deal breaker. If it is bad enough that they tell you in the manual that you shouldn't drive in inclement weather unless you're prepared to replace the seal then I would call that a manufacturing flaw that should be prioritized. An auto maker would likely be put out of business if they put something like that in their manual. Does anyone happen to have an exploded diagram of the windshield assembly? It just seems incredible to me that they wouldn't be able to seal better or at least add some drain holes to help dry things out...

Gary - K7GLD · 10-29-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTegarini

'owner negligence on maintenance' is certainly one of the explanations I got from a Winnebago customer service rep.

In all fairness to Winnebago, on a non-existent page in my Owner's Manual it does state that the 'motorhome should never be driven or stored in inclement weather... and that if driven or stored in inclement weather or washing the motorhome is necessary, the reveal windshield molding must be removed immediately and all moisture thoroughly dried with a heat or hair-drying device. If the moisture is more extensive around the windshield frame, it's recommend to have a professional glass company remove the windshields and completely dry all surface areas. Failure to do so will absolutely lead to extensive rust and windshield frame failure.

The manual also points out that if this not feasible or practical over the estimated life and use of the motorhome, the purchase of any other brand of motorhome may be more practical and highly recommended.

I've owned many vehicles in my lifetime and other RV's and have never had this rusted windshield frame issue, but then anytime it was raining, or even might rain, I always walked to work and only camped in a tent, so my rusted Itasca is entirely self-inflected.

And isn't THAT a huge bag of BS!

I'd be ashamed, as a manufacturer to EVER have a statement like that in my operator's/owner's manual - as another poster said, what if FORD, GM, or ANY other vehicle maker had a page like that in their manuals?

SURE, just operate your RV out in the open ONLY in NICE, DRY weather...

Clifftall · 10-29-2012, 02:05 PM

When I bought my 01 Chieftain from Lazy Days , they had ( and I think still do ) a front end frame including steel windshield frame on their lot. They used it as a selling point. I guess it has benefits however , as we now know there are negatives. I saw mine in 04 when I suffered a windshield crack in Alaska. It was starting to show signs of rust at that time.

Cliff

emiddleb · 10-29-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD

And isn't THAT a huge bag of BS!

I'd be ashamed, as a manufacturer to EVER have a statement like that in my operator's/owner's manual - as another poster said, what if FORD, GM, or ANY other vehicle maker had a page like that in their manuals?

SURE, just operate your RV out in the open ONLY in NICE, DRY weather...

Agreed, but you did note the "on a NON-EXISTENT PAGE" in the original posting, didn't you?

kb7uxe · 10-29-2012, 11:28 PM

Happy guy:
don't let the windshield deter you from buying any brand or style motor home.
it's just part of life, not really a big problem.. I just think motor home frames tend to "flex' a little more than a car, and they anticipated. But not a big deal, any competent installer can make quick work of it if required. 8-)
Happy RVing..
73
Dan.

Mr_D · 10-29-2012, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go6car

Horrible.

Does insurance cover any of this?

Just horrible....

Insurance doesn't cover this unless you can work it into a broken windshield estimate, but that might be against the law/rules!

Mr_D · 10-29-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb7uxe

But not a big deal, any competent installer can make quick work of it if required. 8-)
Happy RVing..
73
Dan.

Sure, for a few thousand $$'s that is!

HappyGuy · 10-30-2012, 07:38 AM

Well, having worked on many older vehicles and dealt with rust and rust abatement I have a real appreciation for what it takes to truly resolve the situation, how badly a "looks good" job can be done and the damage that can result. Since this is a structural component of the coach that takes not only road vibration and coach flex but sustained air speeds that can easily exceed hurricane force on a daily basis (65 mph + 10 - 15 mph headwind), anything that would compromise that structure would be a cause for concern. I too saw the windshield frame in the showroom but didn't look closely enough to see the finer structural points. I saw that there is a large amount of steel present so yes, some rust could be dealt with successfully. However, if more than a third of the thickness of the steel was compromised or someone did a poor job welding and weakened the area around the weld then I would consider that structure compromised. Since I don't have the tools to safely remove the glass myself I wouldn't be able to perform the repair and that bothers me as well. Problem number two is that I haven't found a good repair shop in the Raleigh NC area that I would trust to work on my rig. Most have failed the basic maintenance order, friendly talk and shop walk through test.

What really shocks me is that this issue has been a persistent problem and has yet to be addressed when the coating technology exists to eliminate this issue.

One person asked why not use aluminum. The reason for high strength steel is that the same amount of aluminum needed to handle the stress loads would be too bulky to package into the existing space without seriously reducing the size of the windshield. A second issue is that long term aluminum's properties would predispose it to stress fractures and fatigue in this application. The wear would require replacement and specialized welding etc to repair. A repair that would likely exceed the value of the coach or be too difficult to realistically expect an existing RV shop to successfully and safely complete.

I guess the short of it is I would not be able to leave things be if I purchased a coach that I knew had a structural member that critical with a known rust problem. The knowledge of the problem and resulting worry would age me too much to be worth it.
That being said, I also wonder how those coaches with windshields set into fiberglass are able to hold up. Kinda scary when you think about it...

This thread was a life saver. Still looking at Winnies but replaced the A at the top of my list with a C.

Gary - K7GLD · 10-30-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emiddleb

Agreed, but you did note the "on a NON-EXISTENT PAGE" in the original posting, didn't you?

YUP - noticed it, but not sure exactly the intended meaning - in any event, that DOES seem to be unspoken attitude from Winnebago on the issue - "windshield frame rust-out is purely the responsibility of the owner to prevent and/or repair..."

RTegarini · 10-31-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD

YUP - noticed it, but not sure exactly the intended meaning - in any event, that DOES seem to be unspoken attitude from Winnebago on the issue - "windshield frame rust-out is purely the responsibility of the owner to prevent and/or repair..."

It was my attempt at tongue-in-cheek humor. My real point is that there is nothing funny about having to pay almost $4k for Winnebago's mistake, and many owners here have had to pony up for the needed repairs, or you just allow the damage to get worse.

As far as ..."that DOES seem to be unspoken attitude from Winnebago on the issue"... I can tell you first-hand that it isn't 'unspoken'; call Winnebago and the customer service rep will tell you flat-out that 'it's 100% on the owner, thanks for calling Winnebago...' Click!

dirko · 11-01-2012, 08:42 PM

Hi Ho: I will offer this as an idea only. About a month ago I had the windshield replaced on our 2006 Tiffin Phaeton. It uses one windshield that is pretty big and heavy. They had four guys getting it into position.

However, after 6 years there was no rust in the steel frame, so it can be done. Even though there was none in the original installation, the installers used black urethane to seal the window to the rubber mounting. Now, the question is whether the rubber can be sealed to the coach to prevent water getting to the frame.

I would suggest that having the coach in a dry climate like Salt Lake City could be a difference, but this coach spent its lifetime in Maryland right on the ocean. (We just got it in April of this year) Even the mirrors show signs of corrosion, so I don't think the weather was an issue.

We previously had a 2000 Itasca Suncruiser for 12 years which also had a couple of windshields replaced and no signs of corrosion. Why? I don't know. Maybe someone else does.

I wonder if the steel frame is treated with anything besides paint. It could, for example, be galvanized. Is it? At the very least it could be passivated with alodyne? Is the paint a rust inhibitor (rusoleum or similar)?

Sorry to ask so many questions without answers.

Dirk

Weimaraner · 11-01-2012, 08:59 PM

Ok, I just posted about the advisability of purchasing a 2003 Adventure 38G. Do ALL winnies have this problem? I'll sure see if there is a rust problem now and also look into whether it had been fixed. Is there an absolute permanent fix for this problem? Why wasn't there a factory recall?

HappyGuy · 11-02-2012, 04:49 AM

Dirko,

Perhaps your rig was kept covered when stored? lived in a garage? or perhaps just had a good seal? I imagine part of the problem is that heavy glass you mentioned. Shifting that glass around during installation could disrupt the seal. Maybe yours was just installed correctly? Lots of maybes... Just like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop. The World may never know. (Ok that was bad...)