No Power to Lights

Siman00 · 07-09-2020, 10:57 AM

Hello. I just bought a 2016 Itasca/Winnebago Spirit 31K. I've discovered that the two 12 volt LED lights in the bedroom over the bed ( mounted under the overhead cabinet) do not work. I used a test probe on the positive and negative wires where they connect on the switch, and neither had power..

All of the other same LED lights work just fine. I'm believing either they were never connected at factory or a supply wire got cut.

I'm not too much of an electrician, so please be gentle with me.

How to diagnose or fix?

Morich · 07-09-2020, 11:49 AM

No big thing to be new. Just need to check a few things closer!
Step one is, do you know about the switch on the back of each light? That looks like it would be a hard place to spot if we didn't know to look there!
But if not that we need to look at things that are most likely to happen, like breakers or fuses. Wires getting cut is not the norm so let's skip the scary stuff, for now!
Your fuses are in a "load center" at the end of the cabinet with stove, sink, etc.
Pull the cover and see if it looks like this drawing.
I've circled two big lugs on the left as positive/hot and ground, so to make sure we are getting the right answer from the meter, put a probe on each of these, if it's a digital meter, either probe to either lug is okay and you should get a 12 volt reading looking for DC voltage.
If you've got that, it proves out what you are reading is good and you can move ahead with confidence in what you are doing. There are two 40 amp fuses but we will assume they are good or lots of things would not be working. Not keeping that secret are you?

So at the top right are three lugs where lights are connected that work through the three 15 amp fuses next to the lug. I might guess that one of those three fuses is blow and one of the lugs is not getting power.
But it all needs testing and that's where you come in! Keep one probe on the big top lug/ ground and probe the other points to see 12 VDC- more or less.
Your testing beats my guesses so check it out and let us know?

Siman00 · 07-09-2020, 12:49 PM

Morich, thank you for coming to my rescue. I've done like you suggested, opening the power panel and test probing (with a simple test light) each of the 12 volt lugs. Each lights when grounding one end and touching the lug. (By the way, every light works but these two).

What next?

Morich · 07-09-2020, 02:09 PM

Well, that was the easy, quick, thing but didn't work out, so we have to move on. One thing to check at the box is that the wires are not a little bit corroded where they screw down under the lugs. Often good to just try tightening them a little bit, both to help the corrosion, if any, but also just to make sure things stay tight. No need to screw it too tight to kill it but just nice and tight?
No signs or knowledge of any changes that might lead to wires cut? Not switches on the back of the lights?
So there is always the chance that you just have two bad bulbs or bulbs that are turned the wrong way. Depending on what style bulbs, the wedge shaped bulb is easy for somebody to have stuck them in backwards and they don't work that way.
But that still does leave your test that did not find voltage at the switch. Not saying it was not right but easier to ask than other things?
Did you get one probe on a "for sure" ground and the other on the wires at the switch to be sure you had ground and looking for battery?
One easy thing to miss is that voltage is a "difference in potential", so if we put a probe on 12 volts and the other also on 12 volts,we get nothing as they are the same potential.
So what I'm saying is insulting enough to say you need to make sure one is on ground! SORRY!
But once I get past insulting, we get into the really harder part, if you don't find battery at the switch. They don't give us much good info on how the wires get from the load center fuses to the switch nor how they get from the switch to the lights.
Is this a link that you can pull up the drawing I'm using to look for wires?
https://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2016/000180019.pdf
Easier to see the original than my copy, but the drawing shows wire coming from the fuses along the cabinet bottom "somewhere" and branching off the wire assembly to finally reach the switch.
They don't mention any joints or connections between the switch and fuses but if you get no power to the switch, the problem does look like it is in that wiring. Maybe need to be really sure that you have a good bare wire connection at the switch, as it gets really bad to find where the wire goes to get back to the fuses.
And how it gets from the switch to the lights is pretty much not shown! But the idea is that if it doesn't get to the switch, there is no reason to look further in that direction but find why it doesn't get there from the fuse.
Running out of information at that point.

Siman00 · 07-09-2020, 03:13 PM

Also, from the diagram, it appears that the room light switch powers them as well as the switches on the lights themselves. Is this correct? The lights, BTW, are flat panels with the LED modules on those panels. No "bulbs" at all.

Siman00 · 07-09-2020, 04:40 PM

Also, from the diagram, it appears that the room light switch powers them as well as the switches on the lights themselves. Is this correct? The lights, BTW, are flat panels with the LED modules on those panels. No "bulbs" at all.

Morich · 07-09-2020, 04:46 PM

We may not have been speaking the same thing and I'm confused!
Not clear from the drawing where that switch goes, so I was assuming something that you may not have meant.
There is another way we may need to go as Winnebago has a code stamped on wires to ID them and that might give us a better idea of where to look next.
If you pull one of the lights off and wiggle enough wire out to spot some 2-3 digit letters, then we can go to a list of those codes here:
https://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram...ical_guide.pdf
If you can find a code, go to the list, run down the leftmost column to find the code and then the next big column is "from" and right hand column is "to" .
An example is from that first drawing on page three for detail CK? It gives wire code of JC and PC to tell you those wires on the room switch come from fuse and go to light!
If you can find the code on the small LED lights, finding the code may give us a better idea of where the other end is??
Sorry about the confusion, I thought you knew that switch was feeding these lights and found no voltage on it. The drawing doesn't actually show that but it also doesn't show where the wire does come from either? Maybe the codes will help?

Siman00 · 07-09-2020, 04:58 PM

I'm sorry to have created the confusion. Let me say it another way--In the bedroom, there are severalloghts that do not have individual "On-Off" switches. They turn on and off when the wall switch is turned on and off. There are also two smaller 12 volt LED lights over the pillows and under the cabinet. Each of those 2 has a "On-Off" switch. They never light up, so I really don't know from where they get power.

I'll look at the wires after dinner and get back to you

Morich · 07-09-2020, 05:53 PM

No problem, this communications stuff is hard when we can't see each other!
Just do it at your own speed and good luck with the chase. Never a good time to try to figure things out if we are already beat!

Siman00 · 07-09-2020, 06:54 PM

I've looked at the wires and copied all the writing on them as follows:
Yellow wire-192291-03-000-(B) YEL1
White wire- 192291-03-000-(B) WHT1

I've take pics of the wires with writing, along with the light itself, but not sure how to send them.

Done for the night. I Wang you to know that I really appreciate your willingness to help, along with your patience. Hope your evening is good.

Morich · 07-09-2020, 08:51 PM

Staying home, trying to keep the mind from going to Silly Putty so lots of time. Not the code the book says is there but that is also what I found on my RV!
So it tells us what assy and that matches the info from the drawing but the drawing shows an "extension" which sounds like just an added short length, but the yellow and white don't tell us anything good, so I wonder if it is possible the short extension just goes down to the light below that looks like it might be in an outside storage compartment?
I'm pretty well out of other ideas but might be worth taking a look at the wiring on that light, to see if there is any splice that might be tucked up between two layers in the compartment. Also would be good to check that light is working and if not we need to do more looking for a fuse that might be listed on the chassis 12 volt wiring drawing, rather than the coach wiring.
Rest well and come back fresh and whenever it moves you.

moabdds · 07-15-2020, 10:54 PM

I think there is a simpler solution. Check to see if you are getting power at the light itself. I have a 2016 Itasca, and during that time period, Winnebago got a bunch of defective LED lights. They even had a recall on them and would replace them for free for a while. Since I bought my Itasca used in 2018, this recall period was already past. I called the manufacturer and got the same answer. They had gotten a bunch of lights from their supplier in China with bad soldering. To make a long story short, I bought replacements for these two reading lights and also the one over the dresser and replaced them all.

I bought these on Amazon. Two for $16.99. They popped right in and work perfectly now.

Morich · 07-16-2020, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moabdds

I think there is a simpler solution. Check to see if you are getting power at the light itself. I have a 2016 Itasca, and during that time period, Winnebago got a bunch of defective LED lights. They even had a recall on them and would replace them for free for a while. Since I bought my Itasca used in 2018, this recall period was already past. I called the manufacturer and got the same answer. They had gotten a bunch of lights from their supplier in China with bad soldering. To make a long story short, I bought replacements for these two reading lights and also the one over the dresser and replaced them all.

I bought these on Amazon. Two for $16.99. They popped right in and work perfectly now.

This it true but in this case the first post stated there was no power to the switch. And this is where things get messy in trying to sort testing which is done at a remote location.
Which switch? Those on the fixture or the switch on the wall which we now agree does not control these lights? Testing with a small test light has some downside as the probes are pretty short and don't give much chance to actually reach a known good battery or ground source. That can leave us open to getting a bad test, even though we think we are doing the test right. Bad testing can definitely make it harder the find the problem, but on the other hand, it is not really nice of me to tell somebody they are not doing things right, since I'm not in a position to see what they are doing. In most cases we have to start with the assumption that folks do know enough to get the job done. I often try to point out what I feel is a better way but that s a very personal thing for most of us and I don't feel like my way is the only way to get things done. What works for me doesn't always work for others and I try not to push the issue too far.
Lend support, add info, and advice but I do not want to control! Doing a class, you are expected to have control but not on a forum! So we get a fairly imperfect situation.

Siman00 · 07-16-2020, 10:10 AM

I've now checked, with a meter, DC voltage where the power supply goes into the fixture. It's 1.6 volts. If I check with reversed polarity, it's 1.6. If I chech with correct polarity, it's -1.6 volts. I also checked another light over the counter exactly like these, and it showed 12.8 volts.

Maybe I'm an idiot; I know mechanical pretty well, but I'm not good with electric. But testing a duplicate light that works vs these lights gives me very different results. As I said originally, there is (essentially) no power at the light.

The previous owner says they once worked and that he has no idea why or when they stopped working. All 3 of the other identical lights work just fine.

I'm not going to tear into the unit's wiring system; there are much easier solutions. If anyone has an easy solution, I'm up for trying. I sincerely appreciate your help.

Morich · 07-16-2020, 11:47 AM

Okay, always good to hear some more results as things do take time. What you see with the meter is the problem. Being reversed on working would be bad but when reading with a digital meter, the polarity is not a big factor as we know that ANY volage can't be different than what the battery puts out. If we get a reading that is different than the battery is wired to provide we can always assume we got the probes wrong!
The reason for the low reading, when expecting 12 volt is likely to be a connection at some point is not good but making a connection with high resistance. Corrosion is a very good suspect.
Agree with not tearing things apart if there are options. One option to look at is Checking what it would take to run a wire from the light in the compartment below.
The drawings are not clear on whether there are two wires to each light or just one in and one out to the other light.
The thing to remember on basic battery like this is that it takes a full circuit (circle?) to make it work. So if you found putting your probe on one point in the light gives you voltage reading on the other point, we have to say you have ground at one or the other.
That ground is just any metal connection to the metal frame of the RV. That metal can be the frame, or any other metal like a metal door, screw sticking out of the siding, etc. as it is all connected together. Not a faucet in RV as they are fed with plastic pipes!
So you are missing having good battery or good ground at the light. One way to get it there is to run a single wire down to the compartment and feed whichever is missing from that point.
The idea being simple enough as you want to find battery, run it through the LED and then back to ground with the switch being somewhere along the circle, no matter where but we normally put it so it is between the battery supplied and the light. Works the same but normally we do switch the hot side, rather than the ground. On 110 AC it is important as it keeps the power off the light as a bit safer but with 12 VDC we can touch it and no harm.
So the tricky part gets down to how easy to get a wire from one light to the other and hide it!
Good luck and wish you well.