No Power to/from Onan Gen- Intellitec Solenoid issue also

[Morich]

Originally Posted by JedtheCamper

Thanks for all the great info-

So here's some other questions here:

1. The remote switch at the stove does not work and the hour meter that is there does not work. It is located on the stove hood.

2. The remote switch at the front lights up green, but does not do anything when cranking.

3. The start switch on the generator allowed it to make the clicking noise.

Would it help to disable the remote switches right now while I work on it?

Thanks!

This all sounds like a good chance it is lacking 12VDC power from the batteries to make them work.

A brief rundown of solenoids may help.
A solenoid is just a switch but instead of a handle like a common light switch, the contacts inside are moved by an electromagnet and that magnet gets the power from the small wires going to the coil of wire inside.
For simple, we don't need to talk why a magnet works, just that it does, so if we think of a bolt inside the coil and on the end of that bolt we put a contact like a big washer, when we power the coil of wire it moves the bolt and contact so that it touches the big lugs on each side of this solenoid.

Kind of crude drawing but when we put power on the blue wire coil, it makes the center black "bolt" move the big black washer to short the two big lugs (red) together to connect the cables on each side together.
The same as when you short around the solenoid with a wrench pliers or such! Only the sparks are inside where you don't see them and that can be what goes wrong with a solenoid as the sparking corroded and eventually the contacts don't make good contact!

The click you hear when you use the switch at the gen, may be when the solenoid moves but if the contacts are too worn, we may only get the click but not good contact. When you are doing it by shorting around the solenoid the power is going through the wrench or pliers you are using and not the solenoid contacts, so the starter cranks the generator!
But you are right that if the small wire lugs are not making good contact, that will also keep the solenoid from working so make sure they are clean and good, too.

On the other switches, I would not worry them too much at this time and just get it starting from one switch first. There green indicator light probably is getting power from a different path and doesn't really do much other than let us know there is power there. Kind of like your phone says you sent an e-mail? Doesn't mean they got it!

[Morich]

I don't know how the generator may be wired for ground. The starter solenoid has to have power come in on one of the small wires and go through the coil inside, then the other end of the coil has to have some way to get back to ground. Sometimes they use only one wire for the power in and then let the other end go to ground by where the solenoid is bolted to the engine. Other times, they use a wire for power and a second wire for ground.
I have not tried it but if you had the wires backwards, it might make the solenoid move the contacts in the wrong direction, push them instead of pull them?

But to test the solenoid, if you put 12VDC from the positive post on one small lug and touch a wire from the negative post to the other small lug, you should hear and feel it jump or click as the contacts close.
If you get the solenoid to move like that, then you need to see that 12VDC power put on one of the big lugs will come out on the other one!!! And it doesn't make any difference on this solenoid which way you put the big power in or out, just as long as it get through when you close the solenoid and doesn't get through when you turn the solenoid off.

See up there in post 15 where the little wire labeled LR comes in? That is the power coming in from the switch and they don't show any contact for that to go to ground, so they are using the mounting screws or bolts to get to the frame for ground! Old cars used to be like that and might not start until you cleaned the metal where the solenoid and starter were bolted on.

[JedtheCamper]

I will get to work on this possibly tomorrow or Saturday. Here's some old posts from Facebook where I was trying to solve this a few years back. This has a link to the video of the sound it is making.

https://www.facebook.com/556676540/v...56187116501541

My notes from a few years ago and also from last year stated:
1. I was jumping lug to lug using a Snap On Tools push button starter. The push button went on one side of the big lug and then on the other big lug. The Onan Start button was not used.

My response to a previous board:

"I jumped lug to lug on the solenoid of the generator with a push button jumper. When I hook battery cables to a ground and positive on the generator it does the same clicking sound in the video above. Jumping the battery (which is full) also produces the click. The click sounds like the fuel filter coming on but nothing turns over. When I jump lug to lug it turns over and cranks....ran for over an hour no issues....but tried every thing and no power."

2. I was told on that thread that if the Rocker switches were not used, the board would not have been energized to know to produce power- is this true? Using the Snap On starter, I can jump the solenoid lug to lug and make the generator run. This lets me know the starter and the motor still work well. I can turn it off using any rocker switch in any of the two remote (front of RV, Stove Rocker Switch) or the switch on the generator. It does not produce power when I crank like this. Yes, the toggle breaker is fine and it is plugged into itself.

3. Feedback from someone that responded
"The rocker switch has ground going in and ground goes out on either the start wire or stop depending on which position you have the switch in. While pressing the start switch put your test light across the two small terminals of the start solenoid. One is ground and one is hot and it should light your test light while the start switch is held. If so and you don’t have 12 hot on both the big terminals while holding the start switch then you have a bad solenoid. Also if you are holding the start switch while jumping the starter to manually start the genset then it should be producing power. That model generator will not stay running if it’s not producing power. There is a circuit breaker just below that blue coil in your picture, pull the switch towards you for the “on” position."

4. I am taking all of your advice and this into consideration before I work on it. I like to have as many options to work through and try to solve this once and for all!

Thanks!!!!!!

[Morich]

You are getting into a part of the generator that I do not know about how the switches on it work, so no comment on whether their ideas are right.
I test solenoids different, so some ideas on testing one may help.

Understand that what you did with the snap switch is just letting the switch connected to the big lugs make the connection instead of letting the coil move the contacts inside.
The old farmers way is too use an old set of pliers to touch the two contacts to see if the engine turns over! Anything metal that you don't mind getting some arcing on it, will do the job. In this drawing, I put the snap switch in blue.

But to test the coil, which is just a coil of thin wire between the small lugs, I use a meter to test continuity. Continuity just means a full path from one point to another for the power.
So I set the meter to read resistance in ohms, one of the funny things marked like an upside down horseshoe on lots of meters. To make sure I have the meter right, touch the leads together and get near zero reading as the meter has a battery in it that sends power up one lead and looks to see it comes back on the other lead. Then if the meter is working, I move the two leads to each small lug on the solenoid and see if I get nearly the same reading or maybe a little bit higher as the wire has some resistance and the meter will measure that. Don't worry about which lead to which lug or exactly what the coil should read as long as it get a reading other than "NONE", it is good. Different meters read a little different, but if it gets some reading, it is likely to be a good coil. If your meter reads like you didn't connect the leads, the coil is open, no good.

If you short out the lugs on the solenoid in some way, like the snap switch and the generator runs, then while it is running is a good time to use the meter to see that the gen is putting out power to the box where you plug the big RV cord in on the RV. Careful here because you are looking for 110VAC and it can hurt you if you touch the wrong things together!

But on the RV plug box there will be one round lug that is ground one that is neutral which is much the same as ground and one of the slanted lugs that is hot power. Set your meter to read AC voltage and then carefully stick one probe to ground, either the lug in the box or the frame of the RV( I tend to like to stick that probe into a crack or some spot of metal on the frame, just to keep one probe out of the way) and then the other into the slanted holes until you hope to find there is power on one.
If you see 110VAC on the box, the generator is good and putting out power! Plug the big power cord in and see if the microwave inside is lighting up!
If not, something on the generator is not right, maybe like the other folks say? Yes, make sure the circuit breaker on the generator is "ON" to see power come out.

[JedtheCamper]

Here's today's info

1. The intellitec is wired correctly in the front of the RV and there is proper power to the onan solenoid at the generator. All lights are able to come on inside the RV no issue from the rocker switch that connects to the intellitec.

2. The onan solenoid was taken off and bench tested. It clicks properly when hooking up power on the top and there is the "click" and power moves from lug to lug.

3. The onan solenoid was missing a ground wire that I cleaned, connected to the proper screw, tested, and was able to make sure it was grounding correctly.

4. The lug facing me is receiving 12 volts plus of power.

5. Nothing happens when i press start. Previously, i could hear the fuel pump engaging. I now do not hear the fuel pump engaging.

6. I tested the switch at the generator and that rocker switch is working fine. i tested all the connections and the wires leading to the rocker switch check fine. It looks like the middle is the hot and the left and right do not have power? Should i retest and see if the right wire engages when i press start????

7. Holding a pair of pliers from the lug to the top spade allows the generator to turn over very nicely and very cleanly. Since the fuel pump is not engaging, i cannot crank it.

8. I also tested the fuse and the fuse is getting power.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

What happened to the fuel pump? Why do i not hear that? I can still not crank using the switch.

unfortunately since i cannot crank it, I cannot tell if it would supply power back to the cab now that the Intellitec solenoid and disconnect Rockers switch are working properly

thanks!

JedTheCamper

[imnprsd]

Here is my circuit diagram for a 2004 Itasca Horizon.

I bet your older coach (and newer) uses the same principles.

* Your generator power normally would feed and ATS with your Shore power.

* Your inverter has an ATS/Relay inside and it senses when you have generator or shore power and then turns "on" or "off" your inverter automatically.

* My inverter has a charger built in and it uses the same large battery cable to pull amps from the battery when "inverting" as it does when charging. (I.e., current will always flow from high potential to low potential.)

==> If you don't have an ATS then why not add one?

[Morich]

This older model does not have the automatic transfer switch but only a 30 amp receptacle for the output of the generator where we do the transfer manually by plugging the shore cable into the box or into shore power. We have to do the work but it does make the wiring less difficult to figure!

But it looks like you are making some progress in fits and starts but getting some things clear will often make the rest easier. So I did some looking at the drawings for how the mode solenoid and battery disconnect switch are wired. I think you are well on your way past those two but maybe just to make it a little more clear in the mind we should look at them as the disconnect does have to be working to get power to the generator starter.

One big hiccup in reading the drawings is that they did not put the total picture on either drawing. We get one drawing for the start battery and another for the coach and each only has a note to see the other for info. I think they should have just said "this connects to the other"???

The first pic shows the start for the RV engine and how it connects to the starter and to the right side of the drawing mode solenoid. I drew in the connection from the coach batteries to the left side of that mode solenoid and the yellow line is the control wire coming down from the dash boost switch or when we have the RV engine running. It goes through the coil in the solenoid and is connected to the frame as ground by the mounting screw!

We get the signal from the dash, the coil pulls the contacts and left and right big cables are connected together! At the same time there is a big cable running to the battery disconnect switch and when that switch is on, it passes the power through to a lot of the RV coach wiring like lights, vents, pump.
This is drawn from the start battery thinking.

The second picture is from the coach battery thinking but shows much of the same but with the info that we need the disconnect switch to be passing power to get it up to the generator starter!

To get that switch to work, we have one wire LG to engage the switch and then they stay latched until we push the switch the other way to send power to the disc switch on LH which is the disengage control.

I believe LJ is just to light the LED on the switch!

So jumping to your questions 5,6, 7, I'm not sure where exactly you mean but it looks like you are ready to start the generator and it doesn't crank when you push the start switch on the generator? Does it crank when you push any of the other start switch like one inside?

You may need to test this idea and let me know if it is not right. I think pushing any of the start switches should make the generator solenoid click shut and hope to put power through that solenoid to turn the starter. I would want to see the starter crank it first, even if it would not start because of a fuel pump, etc. question.

Is it possible the fuel pump is not jumping up because it already has the fuel pressure high enough and not needed now until we start using some fuel? Not a generator mech, so that is just a thought, so I like to get step one of cranking going first and THEN look for problems if it is cranking but not starting.

I would check if all the start switches fail and get at least one of those to crank the engine first.
Second get it to start and run.
Then third, once running find out if there is a problem getting power at the output box/ receptacle and then into the RV when we plug in the cord.

Meanwhile, make sure not to let the batteries run down as there are things using power even when we think we have them all turned off. So you can really chase yourself in circles if you get the coach batteries working right through the disconnect and the next time you test, they have run down so the things you just got going are now dead!!! Put a charger on them if you can.

[JedtheCamper]

Replacing my board and voltage regulator on Onan 4000. Flight Systems did all my info and sent me the board and regulator.

The old board does not have the small pigtail. I took pictures of everything. Seeing if yall can help me line this up.

The purple and green lines to the left in the plastic wrap have never been connected. Possible remote start ?????? You will see them labeled on the pic


Flight systems said new board, new voltage regulator. Just got it in and dealing with the j2 pigtail

Thanks!

Just making sure it all lines up

[JedtheCamper]

More pics

[Twpinaz]

Jed,
I see from the posts you have done extensive work on the gen. I have a onan 4000 and had carb issues from sitting at dealership lot for 3 months for warranty work in hot Arizona summer. Tried just flushing carb with sea foam and could intermittently get it to fire up. Replaced oil, air filter, fuel filter and spark plug. So flushing with sea foam wasn’t enough to break up the varnish glaze.
I removed the carb and the bowl and found it varnish sticky build-up coating it and the carb solenoid sticking cleaned everything with sea foam and carb cleaner. Put it back together and no more issues. I make sure that I use stabilizer in my tank and fire it up once a month and put it under load. No more issues since the rebuild.
Seems like from the posts you are working on many more advanced issues, but thought to share my experience with the carb.
Angela

[JedtheCamper]

I love SeaFoam! That is my next step. When I jump it, it runs like a top.....but I am willing to bet I am going to need some Seafoam in there.

If I can solve this electrical mess. I know I have a grounding issue on the fuel pump I discovered tonight.

I am matching my wiring to this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYuaPtomcA&t=522s

Thanks for the response!

[JedtheCamper]

Flight Systems (www.flightsystems.com) sold me the board and voltage regulator. They consulted with me today on wiring. Here is what we found out:

1. I tested all switch wires and the run and start were flipped and grounds were not correct. They are all corrected now

2. The fuel pump was wired wrong. I fixed the ground, power tested it, and now it works properly.

3. Everything is lined up ready to go with the board. I will hook it up tomorrow with the solenoid and voltage regulator....I will update a resolution

[JedtheCamper]

Solved!

Any one following the thread...board and voltage regulator replaced.... All wires matched for coding to Onan and Winnebago specs......coil wire reseated it slipped....bingo! It is on!

[JedtheCamper]

We are about to kick off the spring season and I want to give an update.

After the complex two yrs of rewiring, last season Flight Systems new board and control fixed the Onan.

Just like many on his board, it sputtered under load with the AC. It would run the fan, but not the AC. It sputtered and cut off under load.

1. I bought a new carb on Amazon. I just read the Seafoam trick on taking off the float bowl. We used to this on KX and YZ dirt bikes back in the day. Is the original carb better than the Amazon replacement?

2. A family member was working on the gen bogging down when I was not there. They plugged up and pancake style air compressor. It bogged down and now nothing works.

3. I am going to dissemble the boards and control and send to flight systems to test.

4. I am going to hook up the new carb when I get those back from flight systems.

5. More Updates to some

Jed, the Camper

[JedtheCamper]

New board, new regulator. Everything wired correct.
The fuse "looked good" but a continuity test proved otherwise.

Replaced carb with Amazon 40 dollar carb. That carb is awful and floods the engine. White smoke blows everywhere.

I am soaking the old disassembled carb in Seafoam. I am going to use the new bowl, old jet, old top, new carb solenoid.

Thoughts???

Should I also drain the oil???

[JedtheCamper]

First update. Tried to go back to the old carb after cleaning. It would crank, run, but sputter. It would not rev up.....but ran for hours. It blew some white smoke... burped...gurgled.... chugged along.

Onan is backordered on their carbs.

Another update. I have built a "Frankencarb" out of the Amazon cheap carb and original. The amazon carb jet has six holes and the original has two. Use the original.

I used the bowl and altitude jet from the Amazon carb. I cleaned the float and soaked seafoam, carb cleaner, and blew out the top.

Changed to a new fuel pump and fuel filter. I put in a new air filter, too.

Now we have it up and running full throttle. It is choking out on AC. Maybe it needs to run more??? Dirty slip rings????

Ran for three hours. I did not have it plugged into itself. Older Onans do not have automatic transfer. They plug into themselves

Battery died....but I did not realize it was low. Went to crank and it froze.

Charging battery....was one click noise...now multiple click noise.

Going to manually turn fan with 14 mm, charge battery, maybe try a jumper....

Updating soon

[JedtheCamper]

Here's some pics of the rebuild

[JedtheCamper]

More pics

[JedtheCamper]

The jets are different. The new Amazon carb springs on top are cheap. There's a few subtle size differences with pieces. The electronic plunger is a different size and does not hold as strong. Frankencarb took the best parts out of both, cleaned old parts, and made a carb out of the two

[Morich]

Glad to see you still game to work it!

I found some info that maynot be what you need right now but maybewantto file away for later?
Way back on post 28, you had a picture and four wires that were not connected and I think I have found them on the drawing and info to tell what they come from and to.
Looking at the wires, you may find labels on the sides like this example.

The wire code list is here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

What I find on your picture, shows three green and one purple.

And what I find on the drawing is three green and one purple,so I think those wires are what I have marked on this drawing but needs the code checked to see if I'm right?

But if correct, it looks like somebody has cutoff a connector that feeds the switch for stop/start and lights? Got any loose connectors found on the generator to match this missing plug or has it been cutoff too?


When you get more into the switches, these wires look to be what used to connect them! Good reason for the switch not to work!!!