No power or generator

Rochaven · 10-01-2021, 02:10 PM

I am parked in my driveway hooked to shore power via a 50amp receptacle I had installed prior to this MH. All appeared to be fine, but just a day or so ago we lost power. The control panel is dark, but there is power to the microwave and the two GFCI outlets. Nothing else. The generator will not start either. I have checked all the breakers, and the battery disconnect switch to make sure it is on. I'm looking for other suggestions as to what to check. The local shop says it will be December before they could see me. Supposed to go to KY later this month.

Morich · 10-01-2021, 04:56 PM

You've given some good hints but we still need to ask a few more.
When the microwave works, it tells us you are getting 110AC power on at least one leg of that shore power, but what about the Air conditioner? Does the fan come on when on air or when on heat?
When the generator does not start, does it crank and fail or just not try to crank. If not cranking it would say the batteries may be down, so does the RV engine start and if it does, will the generator then crank as if the engine alternator is giving it more battery power for cranking?
If the generator starts, do the AC and other 110AC items all seem to work and after a bit of running then perhaps the DC comes alive?

Give that a look and let us know so we can go from there?

Rochaven · 10-01-2021, 06:45 PM

Thanks for your response. No, the air conditioner does not come on. I have not tried just the fan but I will do so. I have tried the generator with and without the engine running. The vehicle itself does start as normal. When I try to start the generator I get nothing. No trying, no clicks, no noises at all. Just silence. I left it plugged in tonight thinking maybe the batteries were dead. The local shop wants me to check the disconnect solenoid. I will do that next. I appreciate your comments. If we’re going to do this long term, and we hope to do that, then I’ve got to learn everything I can.

armullis59 · 10-01-2021, 09:04 PM

Do you have a monitoring panel inside the coach were you can check the voltages coming off the house batteries? What is the voltage? If your generator will not turn over with a good chassis battery (that starts the engine), then your generator draws off the house batteries.

Also, I would also check for any blown fuses in the coach. If you have an inverter, press the reset switch on it (the inverter doesn't have anything to do with the generator), but resetting the inverter is never a bad thing to do!

armullis59 · 10-01-2021, 09:06 PM

Does your 50 amp plug that you are plugging into have current on both legs? If you have a surge protector/circuit analyzer, do all the green lights come on indicating the plug is wired correctly?

Morich · 10-02-2021, 07:43 AM

To explain my thinking a bit?
I am thinking the Rv has been stored and the coach batteries are totally flat.
This lack of 12VDC on the coach will not let the Air cond or monitor panel work as it is needed for the thermostat and controls. The AC side may be okay but not the controls that let them run!
When you are able to start the RV engine, that means the start battery is okay and there is a mode solenoid which connects start battery and the running engine alternator to the coach batteries, fi all is working correctly. After a bit to get just a small charge into the coach batteries, the interior lights, vents and water pump may begin to work but ONLY if the battery disconnect switch is turned on. But it WILL NOT turn on if the coach batteries are dead.
So the setup is that you may have to start the engine and that should get enough power to the coach to THEN turn the disconnect on. Turning the disconnect on will then let the AC powering the converter to make DC, get that DC through to the coach batteries to be charged.
The big question may be whether the fully discharged coach batteries are damaged to far to take and hold that charge!

This is kind of a frequent problem for newer users as the details can often be missed.
One big one is that the battery disconnect doesn't FULLY disconnect all power used on that battery as safety items like the CO and propane detectors are still left powered, so the RV is stored, the coach batteries go to low for the disconnect relay to work and the batteries may go totally flat.
Meanwhile the start battery may have enough power left to start the engine and that does often get enough power from the alternator running to power up the rest of the coach.
See if that meets what may have happened?

Reasonably easy to get you some drawings and show what I think happened so you can avoid it in future but first we need to make sure my guess is correct???

Marine359 · 10-02-2021, 07:53 AM

Has OP measured voltage across house batt terminals with a multimeter?
Nominal 100% SOC for FLA should be about 12.7 volts
Full DOD should be about 1.5v
So if batteries are less than 11.2v, they’re toast.

Morich · 10-02-2021, 09:10 AM

They have not mentioned the voltage testing, so I assume possibly not but the hints of no lights on monitor and no cranking for generator do point toward no coach power?
With no coach battery flipping the battery cutoff switch is likely not to do anything as it has no power. Kind of one of those easy to do things in letting the battery go down but , that's where the OP has to do some checking!

It really would be nice if we all got a great big note telling us that not ALL power is disconnected when we turn the disconnect off!

But then, I'm also open to guessing wrong!

Rochaven · 10-02-2021, 09:12 AM

Thank you for your help. I'm new to this and I appreciate it. I have the coach running now. Should I check the batteries unhooked, or is there a way with them still hooked. If I check post to post I get a very negligible reading. At the junction of the red wires and a ground I get about 12 with the engine not running and up to 14 with it running.

Marine359 · 10-02-2021, 09:28 AM

To check, batteries don’t have to be unhooked, just disconnect using the battery disconnect switch. Measure between pos/neg posts on each battery. Even if battery is discharged you should get some kind of voltage. Could be one of them is dead and the other is still alive. If batteries are 2x 6v wired in serial, you should also check pos post on one battery and neg on the other.

**creativepart** · 10-02-2021, 10:50 AM

Those appear to be 2-6v batteries wired in Series. You need to test between that top black wire on the left battery in the photo and the top red wire on the battery on the right battery in the photo. You can see that top left black wire looks to go to the chassis and the top right red wire goes to the fuse on the wall behind the battery.

The engine should be off, everything unplugged from shore power an the battery disconnects turned to OFF, and then you should wait 1 to 4 hours before actually testing the voltage.

Since those are flooded batteries - you should have been opening those caps and keeping the cells topped up with distilled water every month or so. If they are dry and you get a reading below 12v when the battery has rested they are most likely shot and not worth trying to revitalize.

When the engine is running your alternator is putting 14+ volts into the batteries and that's why you get that reading while the engine is running.

Rochaven · 10-02-2021, 11:17 AM

Thank you. I did check the water in the cells and it is OK. I'll let it rest then check as you suggest. A tech is asking me to check the output terminals on the power converter. I know where it is but getting to those terminals won't be easy. I did confirm that the outlet the converter is plugged into does have power to it.
I do believe those batteries may be dead though.

Morich · 10-02-2021, 12:01 PM

When testing there will often be things suggested that are really hard to get to and do, so some thought can save you some effort in those cases.
What they are wanting to know is if the converter is working and putting out the Dc power to charge the batteries but that can be right at the output terminals, which you say are hard, OR if all is working that same test can be done at the battery much easier.

They want to know if it is leaving the converter but if we see it arriving at the battery, we can assume it doing that, right? We have to admit that if it IS NOT getting to the batteries, we may have to go further to find out why but why go to the hard part first when it may be possible to avoid that?

Keep in mind that a battery is a chemical process that has to settle a bit before we get a true answer on what voltage the whole battery may be holding. We do that chemical reaction at the first cell only and it has to work it's way all through the battery to get a good answer, so let it settle without engine running, not plugged into power and most things turned off like light, fans, etc.

Then after it settles. test from the actual positive post to the negative post. In your cases, you do have an RV that has been modded to use two 6 volt batteries instead of one 12 volt. Instead on one battery case with six cells, you have two cases with 3 on each added together. Expect to get near six volts if testing from the posts on the same battery but then move one probe to the other battery and expect to get more than 12 volts on a well charged good set.

To test if the converter is putting out? Plug in the power cord, make sure the converter breaker is on and then look at the voltage at the same point where you got the earlier reading and it should be higher as the voltage coming from the converter is what you expect to see! If the reading in now higher, it can be assumed it is coming from the converter and you don't have to dig to find out!

But if that reading is not higher, then there may be one or more problems. One is that the converter is not working but the more common problems are things like the converter is turned off at a breaker, the cables are corroded at some point and that point may be either end or some connection between.

See that red cable with the blue tape in your picture? That tape is coded (if somebody has not hammerheaded it!) that tells you where the cableshould go using this code:

Rochaven · 10-02-2021, 04:52 PM

Thanks Richard--
The batteries were indeed dead. I got no reading at all so took them to Battery Outfitters. They confirmed that one was totally dead, and the other had less than 3 volts. I will put new ones in but want to clean the cables first. Once I've done that I'll try your suggestion on testing the converter. It is impossible for me to get to. I can see it, but the terminals I need to check can't be reached, by me anyway. It is under the refrigerator.

bigb · 10-02-2021, 04:57 PM

As Richard said just check at the batteries while you are plugged in, you should be seeing at least 13.2 volts. If it is not charging your batteries you are at risk of running your new ones dead which will cause permanent damage to them. If your converter is not working you can squeak by with a battery charger connected to the batteries and limited usage of your 12 volt stuff.

Morich · 10-02-2021, 06:13 PM

Knowing how and when the batteries get charged from what source is one of the big items on the learning curve and if we can get it right, we can save afair maount of trouble and expense on swapping out batteries.
A short review may help some new folks and it never hurts for us older folks to read it to jog the old brain! ?

There are almost always what is termed "parasitic drains" on both start and coach batteries and they will be run down and damaged if given time and not tended properly. On the start, there are things like radio presets and maybe some ignition or other "automatic" features that draw power.
On the coach, even when the battery disconnect switch is off, the co and propane detectors are left on for safety, so be aware that either battery may run down while stored if not some method to charge them.

When plugged into power, the converter should normally charge the coach batteries but NOT the start battery if the Rv does not have some specific item like a Trik-L-Start of some brand/type built in.

When the RV engine is running and the alternator is feeding charge power to the start battery, the solenoid should also be connecting them together with the coach battery, but that connection drops off when the engine stops!

It's that "sometimes connected, sometimes not" that can make it hard to sort out and it gets worse when the coach battery gets run down because then there are so many other things that stop working.

Just being aware of what each item dos is a good start but it takes time to get there!

For that long term learning curve, I might suggest starting with how these things work by looking at the drawings here for your specific RV:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_157461.pdf

I took a snip of the drawing and did some notes to explain what it does but it does take some time to get it all in mind, so this is not the totally big picture but basics. Maybe click this snip to get a better look?

The start battery is connected at the black line to the solenoid and the coach battery on the other big lug as marked in red. When you start the RV engine or push the momentary dash switch (boost, aux, or maybe other labels?) it puts battery on Wire LR marked green and goes through the coil of the solenoid to meet ground on wire FM which is screwed down on the mounting screw! It's NOT on the big lug! when there is power there the solenoid closes the contacts and connects black line to red line. There is already a battery cable between the solenoid and disconnect switch and that makes pretty sure there is power to that side of the disconnect switch. What may happen if the coach battery is dead, wires LG and LH are the control wires from the disconnect switch and they may not have power to move the relay closed or open! If they don't move the relay and it was left open when it latches after last use, there is no way to get the power from the red cable to the blue line going to the generator starter.

That leaves you dead and can't start the generator but if you can get the engine started, then there is power to start the generator. You have a chance to bring it all back to life again!

I like to always start the engine first, then do the generator slides or jacks as a way to help those power hungry things have the best shot at working the first try!

Problem is that the contacts in the solenoid open and close every time we start the engine and they do wear quicker that lots of things due to passing so much current and so often!
Good thing to find where they are set and what they do as they tend to be a trouble spot!

Rochaven · 10-03-2021, 07:21 AM

Thanks, all of you. I appreciate you taking the time to teach me. Here is my next question. When I took the batteries out, I found they were separated by these burned pieces of plywood. I didn't find any other signs of a fire. Can the batteries get that hot? If so why? Is it possible they just used the already burned boards because that is what they had? It's kinda scary thinking it got hot enough to char the boards. Are there recommended materials for spacers between the batteries?

**creativepart** · 10-03-2021, 09:47 AM

It's a guess... but on any coach that was previously owned by another human being you can never rule out the former owner as the explanation for something that's not otherwise explainable. I think that's what you've got there... unless you see anything else that corroborates a fire in the area, in which case never mind what I said.

Morich · 10-03-2021, 10:07 AM

Looking at the picture you posted on post 9, I'm not seeing what you show here but it looks like something that I would not want, just based on looks and there is not normally any need for the extra weight and clutter as there are better ways to go.

Assuming there is a solid metal tray under the battery to hold the weight, there are regular clamps to hold the batteries down and avoid damage if you happen to hit a major bump. It is possible to break a battery case as they are plastic!
Your picture appears to show one clamp holding one battery but they apear to have been careless when changing to six volt batteries and did not fasten them in any way that I can see.
The blue lines show the existing and where new ones should be added but it will likely require drilling new holes for the clamp bolts to fit down through at the bottom.
There are lots of different clamps and they are easy to find locally in most cases but forget the boards between as extra weight and you actually want space around the batteries for helping to cool as well as let fumes blow away.

Example of clamps:
https://www.jbtools.com/fjc-46226-ba...RoCnGYQAvD_BwE

Rochaven · 10-03-2021, 10:35 AM

Thanks for hanging with me. Batteries are in, ATS tests good. When I flip the Battery disconnect switch labeled AUX BATT on my coach, I can hear a loud click. I believe it's the solenoid behind the panel under the steps. What is the best way to test that? I did try the battery test and it reads 12.51 so I don't think the Power Converter is charging.