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Old 02-19-2017, 07:30 AM   #1
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New owner with "pilot out" mystery

I have been lurking around for a month searching previous posts and have learned lots from here about my coach.
In fact every issue I have had up until now has been solved by researching the same issue others have had posted.
I have however run into two issues I have yet to solve.
Here is the first one:
My "pilot out" light turns on on the lp water heater display when I have only the electric heater heater on. Once this light turns on, the electric water heater stops heating. I can often get it to run again for another hour if I cycle the breaker.
2004 Itasca Meridian 39W , water heater, not sure of brand, has both 120 and lp element.
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Old 02-19-2017, 07:58 AM   #2
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Check this link to see if it helps


http://www.irv2.com/forums/f54/atwoo...ter-92527.html


Can you post the manufacture of your HWH.


Good luck
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:04 AM   #3
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Well that's different.... the No Pilot LED is driven off the igniter module, and as I recall has no connection to the elect module (have to look). Is the WH Gas switch Off when this happens?

And when on Gas, the heater stays lit?
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:04 PM   #4
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IF it is an Atwood the 'Fault Light' (not a pilot light as there is NO pilot) comes on for 2 reasons:
1) when on LP it will come on IF main flame fails to light off and prove it lit
2) when using lp OR electric it will come on when the ECO OPENS (Energy Cut Off---high temp t-stat)

The ECO opens at 180*F and happens when the 'T-stat' (normal temp=controlling t-stat) fails to open at 140*F
The ECO auto resets (closes) when water temp drops below 150*F and you reset 'Fault Light' by turn OFF , wait 30 seconds and turn back ON (same reset anytime it comes on)

Time for NEW set of t-stats (t-stat & ECO come together) OR could just be that the t-stat is NOT being held tight against tank wall therefore it is NOT sensing tank temps
They look alike but have different size terminals/spades so no confusing which is which when replacing.

Suburban only has fault light on Flame failure
High temp t-stats opening have no fault light as they have to be MANUALLY reset
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Old 02-19-2017, 01:45 PM   #5
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x2 what Old Biscuit said. The ECO-STAT his most likely the culprit. They come together as a kit and there are You Tube videos that walk you through the procedure to replace them. If this is the first time for their replacement, the job can be a bit arduous. The tank is surrounded by another thin metal layer that contacts the tank. Both the ECO and STAT are held in place when their peripheral flange is nestled between the tank and that outer skin. There is also a small spring that is nestled in there as well that applies constant pressure to the sensor so the sensor makes solid contact with the tank. To remove and replace they "twist out" and "twist in" and all the while you must apply pressure to compress that spring as you remove and install. The glitch come if this is a first time replacement. If the sensor does not want to rotate to remove, you may need to take a small pocket screwdriver and VERY CAREFULLY work it in between the tank and that outer metal skin to SLIGHTLY increase the tolerance between the two surfaces so the sensor's flange can rotate to remove. Once that tolerance issue is overcome for the removal, installing the new set is without issue.

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Old 02-19-2017, 10:33 PM   #6
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It appears I have the Atwood unit. It is an auto lighting unit so it has no actual pilot that stays lit. I see that these parts are on the front of the unit and appear relatively easy to access, much easier than if I needed the element. Perhaps camping world will have this in stock.
I watched a video twice and believe I am up to the task.
The collective knowledge base of this group never ceases to amaze me. I will post back when I get the parts and put them in.
Thanks.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:41 AM   #7
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Any RV dealer will probably have the kit in stock. The kit contains the two sensors, new springs and a new peel-and-stick black seal patch that covers them. When I replaced my set in 2013, the kit was less than $20.00.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:48 AM   #8
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this happened to us last year, the 'pilot out' light lit below the 'LP' and 'ELEC' water heater buttons... I knew that there is no 'standing' pilot light for either, and was confused to the naming of this indicator light.
A call to Thor service told me that I was correct and to, if I remember correctly, pull the 12v fuse, under the bed area, which would then 'reset' the water heater circuit.

No problems since. : )
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterT View Post
this happened to us last year, the 'pilot out' light lit below the 'LP' and 'ELEC' water heater buttons... I knew that there is no 'standing' pilot light for either, and was confused to the naming of this indicator light.
A call to Thor service told me that I was correct and to, if I remember correctly, pull the 12v fuse, under the bed area, which would then 'reset' the water heater circuit.

No problems since. : )
Just turning switch OFF wait 30 seconds and turn back ON will reset the 'fault light'
No need to pull any fuses
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:16 AM   #10
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Update:
Part was in stock at Camping World (never going back there again) and was easy to install. I cleaned all connectors and used dielectric grease.
But the problem remains.
I still get the pilot out error light after several minutes of turning on the electric water heater. I can however now use the lp side of the water heater without the error light coming on.
It is a 10 gallon Atwood with dsi.
Any ideas?
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:14 AM   #11
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There is a group of wires that connects to a terminal on the circuit board located in the upper right side of the water heater. Remove the connection from the circuit board and clean the male end of the terminal strip using a pencil eraser. Do both sides of the terminal and reconnect. See if that helps.

Dan
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelledan View Post
There is a group of wires that connects to a terminal on the circuit board located in the upper right side of the water heater. Remove the connection from the circuit board and clean the male end of the terminal strip using a pencil eraser. Do both sides of the terminal and reconnect. See if that helps.

Dan
X2^^^^

And it is NOT 'pilot light'..........it is a FAULT Light

When using electric there is a milivolt signal on the RED wire to ECO and gas valve solenoid.
That signal is necessary for electric side to be controlled by circuit board and for the ECO to be in the circuit for safety reasons.
IF this milivolt signal is NOT going out to ECO and then to gas valve the FAULT Light is triggered and turns on.

Doesn't take much resistance to stop 12V DC .....even LESS to prevent that milivolt signal from getting thru.

As suggested pull the connector....bottom one Green, Red, Blue, Yellow, Brown wires.
Make sure all pins are straight and have tension so they make good contact of board and that board contact is clean (use pencil eraser).
This is especially true for RED wire due to that milivolt signal

(LP is working cause it uses full 12V DC current ---no milivolt signal involved)
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:21 PM   #13
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I cleaned the contacts on both of the white plastic clips that plug into that black box on the upper right side. No change. The light turns on (not immediately) but like 10 or more minutes after I turn it on.
Oh I don't know if this makes a difference, but I the little red light bulb was burned out in the 120v water heater switch. I swapped it out. But in removing it from the wall, all three wires came out of the back. Two wires were yellow and one white. I put the two yellow wires in the upper two spades and the white one on the bottom. I could not tell a difference in the yellow wires and don't know if it matters their order.
Could it be those wires? The bulb built in the switch does come on when I flip the switch.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:39 AM   #14
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I'm 400miles from home on business so cannot look at the drawings, but yes, it absolutely does matter where those wires go. It will either work, not work (as you apparently found out), or create a dead short and hopefully do no other damage more than blow a fuse. Stop and wait for someone here with drawings to tell you where things go.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kg4izw View Post
I cleaned the contacts on both of the white plastic clips that plug into that black box on the upper right side. No change. The light turns on (not immediately) but like 10 or more minutes after I turn it on.
Oh I don't know if this makes a difference, but I the little red light bulb was burned out in the 120v water heater switch. I swapped it out. But in removing it from the wall, all three wires came out of the back. Two wires were yellow and one white. I put the two yellow wires in the upper two spades and the white one on the bottom. I could not tell a difference in the yellow wires and don't know if it matters their order.
Could it be those wires? The bulb built in the switch does come on when I flip the switch.
Page 7 of the Body, 12 Volt Wiring Diagram for your coach shows the wiring of that switch in the lower right corner. The YELlow wire labelled HHJ should be on the center terminal of the switch.
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:48 PM   #16
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Ok I have a three spade switch. Two gold and one silver.
I will put the yellow wire with HHJ in the middle gold spade(2)
Does the white that says JP> go in the other gold spade (3)and the yellow with JA1 go on the silver spade(1).
Silver should be the load ,the yellow wire JA1, right?
I think this is how I had it.
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:27 PM   #17
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The WHIte wire JP is the ground, the YELlow wire JA is +12V, and the YELlow wire HHJ is the 'load' (water heater relay).

I just took a look at the switch on my 2005 Vectra for comparison. All three terminals are brass-colored. As mounted there are three terminals in an inverted 'L' pattern, with two horizontal terminals in the middle and a third horizontal terminal below the right-hand terminal (as seen from the back). Sort of like this (ignore the periods used to make things line up):

| (Back of switch)
| _JP_ _HHJ
|
| ........_JA_

Does that configuration match your switch?
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:39 PM   #18
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that does not look like mine.
My switch is a Jr Products 12045 lighted switch.
It has three spades in a row numbered one, two, three.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kg4izw View Post
that does not look like mine.
My switch is a Jr Products 12045 lighted switch.
It has three spades in a row numbered one, two, three.
That's odd--this JR Products page shows that switch with a pin layout that looks just like mine: JR Products 12045 Lighted Switch

[OnEdit: Removed guess about terminals]
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Old 02-25-2017, 05:03 AM   #20
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Ok my switch is wired correctly, what else could be wrong?
Since I changed the Eco and stat, the 120v water heater heats for less than 60 minutes before the red light comes on, and then it heats no more until turned off and then on again.
This ends up in quite a delay when I come home and want a hot shower.
Any ideas?
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