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Old 03-09-2021, 03:01 PM   #1
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More and more options

I got a link to this video in the mail today from one of the solar companies here in Arizona. It refers to a Lithium battery, Discovery Blue, and the offerings of the line. What struck me about this are the options for a both a small 100 AH (Group 24) battery and a larger 200 AH golf cart size battery. That means that enough space for 2 golf cart batteries gives someone the option for 400 AH of power. Both are 12 volt, although they also have 24 volt batteries.

I have no idea how good these batteries are, but am encouraged that the options keep increasing.

http://trk.klclick.com/ls/click?upn=...NXYNc4ow-3D-3D
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Old 03-09-2021, 04:45 PM   #2
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Apparently that is Discover Blue, not Discovery Blue. My mistake.
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Old 03-09-2021, 05:23 PM   #3
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No price? I checked AZW&S website - "email or call us for pricing" which is, of course, subject to change. If they're reasonably priced, I'd have another look.
Other than that unknown, they look OK, and the 200Ah in a fairly small package could be very useful. I saw a warning on the case "do not use for ignition" so I'm wondering what their max continuous and burst mode output numbers might be?
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Old 03-09-2021, 05:55 PM   #4
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In view any Li battery manufacturer who won't post prices on their or their dealers (N Az Wind and Sun) isn't worth calling to find out the price.

Having said that they do seem to jam a lot of amp hours into a small space. I wish they would offer a G31 battery of 125 or more Ahs. A pair of G31s will fit in most MHs under step battery box and their high energy volume density would really be useful in that situation.

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Old 03-09-2021, 06:30 PM   #5
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In view any Li battery manufacturer who won't post prices on their or their dealers (N Az Wind and Sun) isn't worth calling to find out the price.

Having said that they do seem to jam a lot of amp hours into a small space. I wish they would offer a G31 battery of 125 or more Ahs. A pair of G31s will fit in most MHs under step battery box and their high energy volume density would really be useful in that situation.

David
200 AH - $1808 (I called)

The size is very appealing but they will not be available until May or June.
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Old 03-09-2021, 06:31 PM   #6
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100 AH - $990 or something like that.

Both are a lot of power in small size.

Lithionics offers 125 AH in Group 31 size, but it is a bit pricey.
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Old 03-09-2021, 06:45 PM   #7
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Not much of a saving buying in bulk (200Ah) over the basic model? However, doubling your power reserve, without doubling the size of the storage devices, might make it worth the money.
The physical size specs weren't that much different than the GR31 boxes I've got now, except for the height - almost 2.5" taller. I'll have to have a look at the depth of my battery tray, next time the weather relents.

Didn't someone else come up with a "new" lithium battery make recently, that had almost double the power of a standard GR31 lithium, packed into a GR31 casing? Within the last 3 or 4 months?
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Old 03-10-2021, 06:07 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Winterbagoal View Post
Not much of a saving buying in bulk (200Ah) over the basic model? However, doubling your power reserve, without doubling the size of the storage devices, might make it worth the money.
The physical size specs weren't that much different than the GR31 boxes I've got now, except for the height - almost 2.5" taller. I'll have to have a look at the depth of my battery tray, next time the weather relents.

Didn't someone else come up with a "new" lithium battery make recently, that had almost double the power of a standard GR31 lithium, packed into a GR31 casing? Within the last 3 or 4 months?
The 2 BB 100AH batteries in our Fuse have been more than enough for how we camp and I would not have much interest in adding more AH to our current setup, but my wife has found a new RV with a floor plan she really likes and keeps mentioning it to me and, having been married for a long time, I know what that means.

If we do end up trading our Fuse for the twin bed model of the Regency Ultra Brougham (which appears to be a copy of the twin bed model of the LTV) I will have to deal with the generator that they have installed right under the rear bed. It is so noisy that staying in that area while it is running is just impossible and I would have to upgrade the batteries enough to allow for use of the microwave and AC off of battery power and restrict generator usage to when we are not in the unit. The only alternative that I see would be to try to replace the generator with one new "super quiet" Onan I series and I don't know if that is feasible.

The RV comes with 2 golf cart batteries rated at 100AH each and if the battery box is large enough (and I don't know if it is) the Discover Blue batteries, at 200AH each, would be a great upgrade, and provide enough power to allow use of the AC for a short time - perhaps 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Of course then the issue will be how to add that power back to the batteries, and I don't think 400 watts of solar is going to do it.

UPDATED:

Or perhaps this is a better solution: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...eter-9229.html
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Old 03-10-2021, 06:52 AM   #9
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The 2 BB 100AH batteries in our Fuse have been more than enough for how we camp and I would not have much interest in adding more AH to our current setup, but my wife has found a new RV with a floor plan she really likes and keeps mentioning it to me and, having been married for a long time, I know what that means.

If we do end up trading our Fuse for the twin bed model of the Regency Ultra Brougham (which appears to be a copy of the twin bed model of the LTV) I will have to deal with the generator that they have installed right under the rear bed. It is so noisy that staying in that area while it is running is just impossible and I would have to upgrade the batteries enough to allow for use of the microwave and AC off of battery power and restrict generator usage to when we are not in the unit. The only alternative that I see would be to try to replace the generator with one new "super quiet" Onan I series and I don't know if that is feasible.

The RV comes with 2 golf cart batteries rated at 100AH each and if the battery box is large enough (and I don't know if it is) the Discover Blue batteries, at 200AH each, would be a great upgrade, and provide enough power to allow use of the AC for a short time - perhaps 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Of course then the issue will be how to add that power back to the batteries, and I don't think 400 watts of solar is going to do it.

UPDATED:

Or perhaps this is a better solution: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...eter-9229.html
I used to live on that forum when I had the Roadtrek.
Much has changed over there, except the discussions. Long, interesting, and there were more than a few people that you could learn a lot from just following the threads.
As always, there's no perfect solution. If there was we'd all have it and that would be that.
Larger battery bank, means more run time for your appliances, and larger inverter capacity means heavier loads become manageable, but the failing is replacing the energy you use. Even the comments farther into the thread about everything going lithium, I treated with some skepticism, because the current battery chemistry and technology takes some time to recharge. Yes, you may be able to drive farther on a single charge/battery pack, but then you might have to stop for 8 hours to replace it.
My personal preference is small nuclear reactors to power the vehicles, but that technology isn't (yet) available on the scale of individual vehicle sizes, although some jurisdictions are planning on trying small scale reactors to power smaller towns and villages, so it may be coming down the pike. Who knows?
It's never simple, is it?
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Old 03-10-2021, 07:04 AM   #10
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My personal preference is small nuclear reactors to power the vehicles, but that technology isn't (yet) available on the scale of individual vehicle sizes, although some jurisdictions are planning on trying small scale reactors to power smaller towns and villages, so it may be coming down the pike. Who knows?
It's never simple, is it?
It is hard to conceive of small nuclear reactors being used to power vehicles given the need for cooling and shielding and the associated weight of the required material. Added to that is the need to find someplace to store the used fissile material since deactivating the produced isotopes is one of the few technical problems that we have tried to solve, and failed.

I remember the attempt to build a nuclear airplane, but that came to nothing since the weight was too great and the power produced too little to be practical. Trying to put it in an RV seems like an even bigger problem.

But then perhaps you were joking when you posted ...

One of the things I want to check into is the possibility of replacing the generator that comes with any new RV with a super quiet version, but I assume that might well void any warranty. No, it is never simple.
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Old 03-10-2021, 07:20 AM   #11
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It is hard to conceive of small nuclear reactors being used to power vehicles given the need for cooling and shielding and the associated weight of the required material. Added to that is the need to find someplace to store the used fissile material since deactivating the produced isotopes is one of the few technical problems that we have tried to solve, and failed.

I remember the attempt to build a nuclear airplane, but that came to nothing since the weight was too great and the power produced too little to be practical. Trying to put it in an RV seems like an even bigger problem.

But then perhaps you were joking when you posted ...

One of the things I want to check into is the possibility of replacing the generator that comes with any new RV with a super quiet version, but I assume that might well void any warranty. No, it is never simple.
Wasn't joking about smaller reactors. I don't profess to understand the technology, or the ineherent problems and engineering challenges, but there's probably someone out there that does, and is trying to make them happen. Whether they'll be able to scale them to personal motor vehicles is another story.
I'm wondering whether we'll ever see battery technology that recharges faster, hundreds of amp hours recovered within minutes, for example, or some sort of a mini-fusion or fission driven motor/engine/power source?
Did you read the entire thread you linked? A quiet(er) generator is probably the best answer under today's technical constraints on the other options.
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Old 03-10-2021, 02:13 PM   #12
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Battery research is really going strong. And, why not, the market is big and getting bigger every day.

It's tough to spend $2K on a product that's "not available until...." without worrying if it's going to live up to the hype. Even if they provide a 10-yr warranty. Will they be around in 10-years to back that up?

I was in advertising and marketing for 35 years so I know all too well that saying something is great is super easy to do. Making it so... harder.

I really love the Leisure Travel Vans products. Very smart design and packaging. It's the 18-month+ delivery times that would put me off. Small company + great product = high price and/or long waits.
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Old 03-10-2021, 02:36 PM   #13
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It's tough to spend $2K on a product that's "not available until...." without worrying if it's going to live up to the hype. Even if they provide a 10-yr warranty. Will they be around in 10-years to back that up?
While the Discover Blue batteries seem to fill a very convenient niche (200AH in a G31 footprint) I would be reluctant to buy them until I saw some review indicating if they are as good as their advertising says they are or until someone who has used them indicates that they work as specified.

While I am fairly ignorant about how these batteries are made I assume that cramming 200 AH into a 100 AH footprint means that more cells were somehow stuffed into the battery case and that begs the question as to whether the entire thing is built for the long run. Perhaps they are great - I would hope so - but I think $2000 is a pretty expensive coin to be flipping concerning that question.

Still, 2 of them (for $4000) seems like a better buy than $4500 for one of the Lithionics 315AH batteries - more power in a redundant package.

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I really love the Leisure Travel Vans products. Very smart design and packaging. It's the 18-month+ delivery times that would put me off. Small company + great product = high price and/or long waits.
We saw some of them about 2 weeks ago in California, but given my present age I am unwilling to wait 18 months for one to show up, and DW does not want to order any RV, even known versions like the Winnebago Navion/View because she wants to look at the specific one we would be getting, both inside and outside, drive it, run the generator and other stuff like that before buying it, and I have to agree with her.

I assume that LTV models are in great demand because there are not many built, the floor plans are well designed and the finish seems to be well done. They are so popular that it looks like Regency has copied the floor plans, the furnishings and the standard features. DW looked at one of the Regency floor plans and decided that it was exactly what she wanted - compact living room area, no slide, twin bed (or island bed) that is easy to get out of in the middle of the night, a dry bath and a separate shower. I would have considered buying the corresponding (perhaps I should say the original) LTV but finding one without someone's name on it is impossible.

I suppose when (or if) we ever get over this virus and manufacturing returns to normal the backlog of RVs will begin to dry up, but I don't see that happening for at least another 6 months in the best of circumstances, and more likely a year or more given how messy life really is. For someone my age that is a long time to wait.
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:09 PM   #14
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LTV motorhomes are nice looking, but they do nickel and dime ($5 and $10?) you for "options" that are standard on some other products, Winnebago for one. For example, I bought the QD3200 as an option on our Navion for C$5000 and thought I was getting robbed. LTV wants US$8000 for it 3 years later, same generator. Add solar panels, exterior ladder, MaxxAir fan, exterior table, and even remote key fobs. Add the diesel generator, some solar, and some lithium and you're getting up there.
The Regency does look nice, and if it comes with some more standard perks, might not be a bad option, if you want a little more space. I'd not even consider a newer View/Navion, after reading about all the problems with the VS30 chassis (many NHTSA recalls), and the coach itself. There's a recall for the side entry door, what's up with that???
Either way, good luck with it.
btw, we're all getting up there in the birthday rodeo. I'm stuck behind a border that's been closed for a year. Like you, I have no idea how many more years I have left, and it's aggravating to say the least. Unfortunately, neither the government or those that elected them seem to care much about cross border traffic resuming any time soon, as long as they can get their Amazon orders delivered.
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:59 PM   #15
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LTV motorhomes are nice looking, but they do nickel and dime ($5 and $10?) you for "options" that are standard on some other products, Winnebago for one. For example, I bought the QD3200 as an option on our Navion for C$5000 and thought I was getting robbed. LTV wants US$8000 for it 3 years later, same generator. Add solar panels, exterior ladder, MaxxAir fan, exterior table, and even remote key fobs. Add the diesel generator, some solar, and some lithium and you're getting up there.
The Regency does look nice, and if it comes with some more standard perks, might not be a bad option, if you want a little more space.
I noticed the business with the very high priced options with Regency as well.

2 solar panels run you $1700 US and, just in case you might think that the price is high because it includes the solar combiner and controller, you find that 4 panels costs you $3400 US. Seems high for $200 solar panels.

You know that keyless entry lock that costs about $200 at Amazon? $600 as a Regency option.

No standard generator. If you want a generator you get a 4K one and it costs you an extra $4800+. When we were playing around with pricing at the dealer I left the generator off thinking that the $4800 was for an upgrade and they told me it was the basic gen for the RV.

Want a safe? $475. And the list goes on.

We had them turn on the generator while we were in the demo and it was so loud I could not even stay in the bedroom so I guess they don't believe in using too much sound proofing. I would be tempted to leave off the generator and just add a lot of battery power. One of the online videos talked about replacing the 2 golf cart batteries with the Lithionics 315AH battery saying that it fit into the battery box with room to spare, but I don't think 315AH is enough power to compensate for loosing the generator. I think I would need at least 600AH to even consider that, although I don't know how I would get it recharged without a gen.

One interesting thing is that both LTV and Regency have moved to add the Ford Transit chassis to their line, although in a gasser version with the V6 EcoBoost. I guess they decided that they just could not get enough of the MB chassis to sell what they want so they added Ford. LTV did it last year or so, Regency just now. The Regency Ford based RVs have not even hit the dealer yet, and that is one of the things we are waiting for. I want to see one of them and find out if they are priced enough below the MB models.

I thought one option for the noisy Regency generator might be to swap out the regular one and replace it with one of the super quiet new versions, but I don't know if it will fit and if it would void the warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbagoal View Post
btw, we're all getting up there in the birthday rodeo. I'm stuck behind a border that's been closed for a year. Like you, I have no idea how many more years I have left, and it's aggravating to say the least. Unfortunately, neither the government or those that elected them seem to care much about cross border traffic resuming any time soon, as long as they can get their Amazon orders delivered.
Part of me says that we should not be wasteful at this point in our lifes, but another part says that as long as our dependents are taken care of, why not enjoy what we can while we can. Life always seems to be full of hard choices.

As far as the border is concerned, it all seems quite silly to me. Canadian traffic is kept from crossing the border while people are pouring across the Mexican border and no one is making any effort to stop them. Seems a bit inconsistent to me, but perhaps that is one of the definitions of government.
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Old 03-10-2021, 05:33 PM   #16
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Let's not forget about the thousands of truckers and other "essential" (who decides that?) traffic that cross the border a mile from where I live, on a daily basis. If they can cross without endangering the rest of Canada or the US, and get exempted from having to do all the silly after crossing quarantining and whatever, then why not the rest of us? A friend of mine's daughter lives in NYS, just across the border from were we all used to live. She's a nurse and went there for work yaears ago, married an American, and has lived there with her family for quite a while. My friends haven't been able to visit her and their grandkids for over a year now, when they used to be able to cross several times a year, or whenever they wanted. It truly is painful for them, and to what end? They'd have gladly crossed with things as is, no vaccines or other prophylaxis. The cure is worse than the disease for them. On a lighter note, he told me yesterday that they're getting the vaccines soon, and maybe they'll be able to cross after that. I hope so. This virus has become a confusing mess (up here, at least) that no one wants to admit is just another disease that we've got to learn to live with, like colds/flus/cancer/heart disease/HIV/WNV/ebola/malaria/cholera/whatever, because it's not going away any time soon. Just my opinion.
re: Regency on a Ford Transit gasser chassis. Has Ford solved the GVWR/GCWR/chassis limitations to allowing you to tow something larger than a Smart car or Fiat 500? I guess if you don't tow now, you won't miss it, but I haven't seen the specs on the Transit 350 recently. Or is the Regency going to be built on an E350-E450 in future?
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Old 03-10-2021, 05:37 PM   #17
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The way you camp, you need a generator to recharge those big lithium battery banks you need to run the A/C from an inverter.

If you can save $4,800 by not buying a coach with a generator, do so and put your own Onan 2,800 watt inverter generator in for less than $3,000 for the generator, maybe $500-1,000 to install. It should fit right into the space where a QG 4000 would have gone. If you wait a year, maybe less, Onan will have the 4,000 watt inverter generator available.

But you probably don't need more than 2,800 watts. That should start and run a 15A A/C just fine but you can't run any other big loads such as a microwave at the same time.

The new Onan inverter generator gets high marks for quietness. See

David
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Old 03-10-2021, 05:39 PM   #18
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Want a safe? $475. And the list goes on.

We had them turn on the generator while we were in the demo and it was so loud I could not even stay in the bedroom so I guess they don't believe in using too much sound proofing. I would be tempted to leave off the generator and just add a lot of battery power. One of the online videos talked about replacing the 2 golf cart batteries with the Lithionics 315AH battery saying that it fit into the battery box with room to spare, but I don't think 315AH is enough power to compensate for loosing the generator. I think I would need at least 600AH to even consider that, although I don't know how I would get it recharged without a gen.

One interesting thing is that both LTV and Regency have moved to add the Ford Transit chassis to their line, although in a gasser version with the V6 EcoBoost. I guess they decided that they just could not get enough of the MB chassis to sell what they want so they added Ford. LTV did it last year or so, Regency just now. The Regency Ford based RVs have not even hit the dealer yet, and that is one of the things we are waiting for. I want to see one of them and find out if they are priced enough below the MB models.

I thought one option for the noisy Regency generator might be to swap out the regular one and replace it with one of the super quiet new versions, but I don't know if it will fit and if it would void the warranty.



Part of me says that we should not be wasteful at this point in our lifes, but another part says that as long as our dependents are taken care of, why not enjoy what we can while we can. Life always seems to be full of hard choices.

As far as the border is concerned, it all seems quite silly to me. Canadian traffic is kept from crossing the border while people are pouring across the Mexican border and no one is making any effort to stop them. Seems a bit inconsistent to me, but perhaps that is one of the definitions of government.
Totally agree on all points. Particularly on enjoy while you can, and life's choices don't get any easier, nor does life iself, as far as I can tell.
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Old 03-10-2021, 05:45 PM   #19
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The way you camp, you need a generator to recharge those big lithium battery banks you need to run the A/C from an inverter.

If you can save $4,800 by not buying a coach with a generator, do so and put your own Onan 2,800 watt inverter generator in for less than $3,000 for the generator, maybe $500-1,000 to install. It should fit right into the space where a QG 4000 would have gone. If you wait a year, maybe less, Onan will have the 4,000 watt inverter generator available.

But you probably don't need more than 2,800 watts. That should start and run a 15A A/C just fine but you can't run any other big loads such as a microwave at the same time.

The new Onan inverter generator gets high marks for quietness. See

David
I think the Onans are all noisey, but so is the Air Conditioner that I want to run with it. Interestingly enough, and like many other things, I can get used to running them together after a while, when the alternative is to lie in a pool of sweat in the heat and humidity of the warmer times of the year. However, I wouldn't run the generator unless I was parked far enough away from others, to minimize the audible damage.
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Old 03-10-2021, 06:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Winterbagoal View Post
Let's not forget about the thousands of truckers and other "essential" (who decides that?) traffic that cross the border a mile from where I live, on a daily basis. If they can cross without endangering the rest of Canada or the US, and get exempted from having to do all the silly after crossing quarantining and whatever, then why not the rest of us? A friend of mine's daughter lives in NYS, just across the border from were we all used to live. She's a nurse and went there for work yaears ago, married an American, and has lived there with her family for quite a while. My friends haven't been able to visit her and their grandkids for over a year now, when they used to be able to cross several times a year, or whenever they wanted. It truly is painful for them, and to what end? They'd have gladly crossed with things as is, no vaccines or other prophylaxis. The cure is worse than the disease for them. On a lighter note, he told me yesterday that they're getting the vaccines soon, and maybe they'll be able to cross after that. I hope so. This virus has become a confusing mess (up here, at least) that no one wants to admit is just another disease that we've got to learn to live with, like colds/flus/cancer/heart disease/HIV/WNV/ebola/malaria/cholera/whatever, because it's not going away any time soon. Just my opinion.
re: Regency on a Ford Transit gasser chassis. Has Ford solved the GVWR/GCWR/chassis limitations to allowing you to tow something larger than a Smart car or Fiat 500? I guess if you don't tow now, you won't miss it, but I haven't seen the specs on the Transit 350 recently. Or is the Regency going to be built on an E350-E450 in future?
BORDERS

In my opinion the current administration can not admit that this is just another disease. They spent the last 6 months beating up on the previous administration telling everyone how their lack of concern caused all of those deaths. They can not now say “Oh. They were right and we were wrong”, even if that is truly the case.

I think this stuff will continue until they can find some face-saving way to end it all. And it may go on, in one form or another, for another 6 months or a year,. Perhaps longer. Politicians can not seem to find any way to say “I was wrong” gracefully.

IMHO

FORD CHASSIS

Ford has increased the tow weight of their Transit chassis to 4000 pounds so, with a little judicious care in loading an RV, you can tow a light Jeep.

Our 2018 Fuse can only tow about 3100 pounds and we tow a Honda Fit on a dolly. The combined weight is just about 3100 pounds but we pack lightly and can probably tow 3300-3400 pounds without an issue.
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