Inverter Question modified sine wave

[RVwithDogs]

2014 Navion comes with a Xantrex 1000w inverter which is a modified sine wave inverter. I thought this might be handy to keep my laptop fully charged while driving but much reading on the internet indicates you should not use a modified sine wave inverter for laptops as it will shorten the life of the power supply brick or even fail to charge the laptop battery. so, this brings up some questions. I can easily install a Pure Wave inverter next to the door or just buy a DC / DC power supply for the laptop but now I am curious what others may be using the Xantrex for. Mine only powers the back bedroom plugs and the plug on the inverter, not exactly handy locations.. What are you using yours for ?

[rgvtexan]

I have no problem with the 3 laptops we travel with. A netbook is used for the VMSpc and is alway on when the coach is running.

My inverter also runs the frig icemaker, TVs, Microwave, and most outlets.

[SLOweather]

I've never had any problems with MSW inverters and various electronics.. If you are that concerned, change it out for a pure sine wave one.

[Morich]

Understanding that the different is in how quickly the voltage rises and falls is one step to understanding this question. Most electronics are pretty simple minded things and don't need pure signwave but are okay with the more "square" shaped waves of newer rectifiers, etc.
Pure signwave rises and falls in sloping fashion as you may have seen on drawings for AC, where the modified has a more "blocky" or rise and fall with more squared off shoulders.
On something more complex like a computer, I might want a pure as it often uses several voltages from the power supply, but on something like a charger, I would not expect it to pass through in radical enough fashion to hurt anything since the purpose of the charger is to change the AC signwave to DC for the batteries we charge.

[jeepster05]

I had a Xantrex msw 1000 for 11 years. I used it for laptop, TV and cable box, powered a crock pot when we were traveling so when we stop for the night dinner would be ready.
I ran an electric wire up through the floor and installed an outlet close to the kitchen cabinet.

[RVwithDogs]

I like the crock pot idea, I guess one could make some sort of rack in the sink to help hold it in place while driving?

[luvlabs]

Either run your generator or plug into shorepower. The Xantrex is good for running the TVs when you stop for a quick overnight and that is about it.

[powercat_ras]

Originally Posted by RVwithDogs

... reading on the internet indicates you should not use a modified sine wave inverter for laptops as it will shorten the life of the power supply brick or even fail to charge the laptop battery ...

Not something you should worry about. Laptops, Tablets, and Cell Phones use a type of power supply that works fine with MSW inverters.

AC motor loads get the most benefit from a pure sine wave inverter (AC/Refrigerator Compressors, Clothes Washers, etc.).

[creativepart]

While the MSW inverter may not generally be an issue... I'd sure plan to replace it when it makes sense to do so. Even though your RV is only 6-years old, I'm kind of surprised they used that type of inverter on a mid-2010s model.

New inverters with PSW output and intelligent chargers that accommodate LiPo batteries and some with Bluetooth monitoring, etc are a super handy thing to have on an RV.

[lewisedge]

My wife and I use 12-volt power supplies for our laptop computers and for our inkjet printer when we're traveling in our Itasca Sunova. That way we are not using an inverter to convert 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC and then running the results through our computers' power supplies to convert the 120 volts AC to 19 volts DC that our computers need. That's an extremely inefficient way to power laptop computers.



Twelve volt power supplies are available from Amazon.com for most brands of laptop computers and for several brands of compact inkjet printers. I strongly recommend that solution, which makes much more efficient utilization of our coach's power.

[bamaboy473]

Originally Posted by RVwithDogs

I like the crock pot idea, I guess one could make some sort of rack in the sink to help hold it in place while driving?

Old towel is best. It cradles the pot, and absorbs any spills.

[sajohnson]

FWIW --

We have a PSW Magnum inverter -- MS2000 -- in our View, and two 25 year old Trace DR2424 MSW inverters in our house for 120/240V backup power.

Our experience has been that everything we've powered with the MSW Trace inverters runs fine.

I will say that the fridge compressor sounds a bit different on inverter power, as does a box fan -- but they both work. The fridge is about 30 years old and it has been run on MSW inverter power many times over the years.

In 1995, when we bought the Trace inverters, I was aware that we could have some problems with MSW, but at that time, PSW inverters were VERY expensive. So far so good with MSW -- but obviously, our experience is limited to our devices -- laptops; stereo gear; DVR; the fridge; a freezer; plasma TV; various LED and CFL lamps, etc.

In 2013, when I was looking at inverters for the View, I became aware that the price difference between MSW and PSW inverters had shrunk dramatically. I was able to buy the MS2000 inverter for just $250 or so more than their 2,000 watt MSW inverter cost. Did we need it? Who knows, probably not, but I like not having to worry about it.

My guess is you can get by just fine with the MSW Xantrex. Just check any devices you aren't sure about to make sure they're not getting hot.

[tmelsonjr]

i read the same about the modified sine wave, and brought the pure sine and can run my computers with no problems

[Shedboy]

Use my MSW inverter to power onboard desktop PC, Wally Satellite TV receiver, Winegard Travl'r Antenna controller, TV's, power tools, cell phone rechargers, chassis battery trickle charger, vacuum cleaner and fresh water transfer pump. Use a 12VDC laptop recharger.


As Morich replied, the difference between MSW and PSW has two pieces, duty cycle and a frequency (rise time) component, Most modern electrical device designs have evolved and include internal protection from rise time problems but protection from elevated duty cycle is not
easy. Blown fuse, tripped circuit breaker and elevated operating temperature of the device are symptoms of duty cycle issues. If the device has a cooling fan in it (like a computer or microwave oven) be sure that the air screens and filters are clean and unobstructed.

[RTrider]

We have a 3K inverter and everything works well except the microwave makes really strange noises and so we always start the generator if microwave is needed without shore power. We found that the induction heaters don't work at all on the inverter. As already said, no problem with anything that uses a power supply like computers, phone chargers, etc. Most of the computer power supplies take 100 to 240 volts and 50/60 hertz. In other words the electronics in the power supply will handle almost anything.

[Ret.LEO]

I would have to switch out to a pure sine to be safe BUT I would also be doing a decent solar upgrade. I would add a Victron inverter/charger to really open up possibilities and keep everything safe.

[powercat_ras]

Personally, I found it much more cost effective to have separate solar charge controller, AC converter/charger, and inverter. I found high quality fairly priced PSW inverters and MPPT Charge Controllers at WindyNation.

In my system with separate AC and Solar charging, I put a disconnect switch between the solar panels and the charge controller that I manually operate when I run the generator to boost battery charge from below 80% to 80%. This makes sure the AC charger does not drop out of full output bulk charge mode early.

I found for those times that you need to charge batteries with AC power due to parking in shade or weather it's good to upgrade the converter charger to one that has max DC output of 100 amps, it lets you bulk charge your batteries to 80% in half the time, saving generator time.

I upgraded my Vista for boondocking, total hardware cost under $ 2,000 as follows:

400 Amp-hours of Costco Interstate Golf Cart Batteries ( 6V x 4 )
700 Watts of Solar Panels, flat mounted on RV roof
PowerMax 100 Amp Converter Charger
40A max MPPT Solar Charge Controller
3000 Watt PSW Inverter

[RVwithDogs]

Thanks Everyone for the comments and advice. I did fine the Xantrex MWS will power up my older Dell but the Dell power brick will not charge the battery. I will get a DC - DC laptop power supply for the old Dell..