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Old 02-08-2022, 08:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by powercat_ras View Post
The OP has a 6 circuit manual transfer switch, that can be wired to 3 120 volt circuits each on a L1 side and a L2 side, this is what the OP has stated in this thread.

Each 3 circuit side is 1: 20 A and 2: 15 A breakered circuits. Each of those 6 circuits has an A-B switch to switch it between being fed from a utility service panel breaker OR being fed from a generator thru an integrated breaker built right into the manual transfer switch box in series with the generator connection.

So since the RV 5500 has two independent outputs, one 30 amp and one 20 amp it may benefit the OP to wire generator L1 to one side and L2 to the other side to maximize the load he can pull. Yes, he could wire both sides from the 30 A L1 and not be able to use the whole 45 amps the RV generator is capable of putting out.

The discussion was how many amps the cable, plugs, and receptacle have to be able to carry WORST CASE. The generator output worst case is the sum of the two generator breakers, 30 + 20 = 50 amps. That is the absolute worst case that can flow back to the generator that the neutral has to safely carry.

The OP will have to wire his 6 circuits to take into account that one 3 circuit group could use more generator power than the other ( 30 vs 20 )

Finally there is the real world situation that Onan uses thermal circuit breakers that can not deliver their namplate rating long term. They can only deliver about 90 % of their nameplate rating continuously for more than about 30 minutes. Anyone who has tried to use their AC and hot water heater in electric mode when both are feed by the same 30 amp breaker on an Onan has experienced this. On this particular generator this "real world" capacity of the breakers actually matches the rated long term output of the generator, 5500 watts.

So the OP should take that into account that the real long term capability of this generator is 27 amps on L1 and 18 amps on L2, not the 30 + 20 shown on the thermal breakers in the Onan.
Are you saying to wire from inside at the load center? I had hoped to wire feed from genny going into ATS using a junction box.

My Onan has two 30 amp breakers, but 45.6 amps is what I thought was max.

In simple terms, I just want to get 30 amps feed for my new to be installed L14-30R. If I can do that, all of my existing cords and existing Home Transfer Switch stays the same
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Old 02-09-2022, 08:14 AM   #22
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When wanting to know about the output of the genset, I go to the specs on this sheet:

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/m...et_revised.pdf

At the right side it does say again it is single phase and then tells us what breakers are built on the genset but to get that exact info we would need a definite model number as it varies. It tells me there are several different layouts for breakers with the larger being two 30 amp, combined thought could be looked at as a total of 60 amp if they are doubled breakers and they would trip if either went beyond the theoretical 30 amp. There is the last set showing dual 30 plus a 20 but we might assume that is not the one OP has?? Some check of model numbers would clear that if needed.

Does that look like what you other folks see?

I'm guessing what we are seeing is slightly misleading on power as we see two 50amp breakers in the RV fed by two thirty amp on the genset while your two air conditioners are each run on a single 20 amp! How the rest of the RV load is fed is not clear to me whehter it is split among the twobrekaers or worked off only one of the fifty amp. That means you may run 50 amp when plugged in but never going to get 50 out of the genset on either circuit as you are breakered for 30 on the set?

Again, my "feeling" is that connecting a 30 amp cord on the output of the genset at the auto switch or at the load center is going to be the same as running only one air conditioner for these reasons.

The genset breaker will only allow 30 amp on either of two circuits, so you will not overload without it tripping.
Thoughts of balance are in the three phase area to me and if it is same type problem in this single phase setup, it seems to be the same out of balance load situation that we would get when only running one air?

Thinking of why they want a breaker box balanced, I "feel" it is likely done to help the power provider as they will have three phase at their transformer, so codes are likely set to try to keep the load on each of the three phases there balanced by making each house balanced to some degree.

Theory would say that if we have fifty houses and each house is balanced, then the resulting load at the transformer is also balanced. But knowing that different houses will have different layouts and loads, is that actually going to happen? does the one room cabing with no running water load the transformer the same as the welding shop next door or the six bedroom house with three air?

So I don't worry the issue of balance on the line when not connected to the line!
I see a genset that is set up in a way that it may have an air unit on one leg and nothing on the other if we are using them in that way, so I get the same "feeling" that it is okay?

But for the cord sizing, I see no way to get too much power from the genset if we only tie the load to one of the circuits breakered at 30 amp! It can be breakered at 50 at the load center for cord use but if 30 at the genset, that is all you should get from it.

That's a feeling and should be checked!
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Old 02-09-2022, 08:57 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Are you saying to wire from inside at the load center? I had hoped to wire feed from genny going into ATS using a junction box.

My Onan has two 30 amp breakers, but 45.6 amps is what I thought was max.

In simple terms, I just want to get 30 amps feed for my new to be installed L14-30R. If I can do that, all of my existing cords and existing Home Transfer Switch stays the same
I'm going back to post #1 and your diagram. I'm still confused as to where the diagram is coming from. It this your coach circuit diagram? If so, lets get this off the board.
Please stick with me on this. I built generator ATS control circuit for a while when I worked in the power department of the phone company. I built portable power generators for emergency services. I'll apply what I learned here.
Are you positive you have a Automatic Transfer Switch? In my house I installed a Manual Transfer Switch. To operate it I must plug in and start the portable generator and let it warm up.

Each load is wired to a triple pole, double through, open before close switch. I will not explain the wiring. Just know that this switch prevents the generator power from going to the house service panel and the house service from going to the generator. It selects where the house circuit will get its power from. From your post #12 you have been running your house from a 3500 generator, all 10 circuits. In no way will you overload the 5500.

You need access to the 5500. Right?
Simply pick up the L1, L2, N & G from a added box in your electrical bay. Splice into the coach ATS output feed; the feed going to your coach service panel. Wire your house feed cord outlet here.

When you need the emergency power, plug your emergency power cord into your existing power inlet on your house and into your new generator outlet in your coach. Fire up the generator and be happy!

Just remember. ALL 120v loads in the coach must be off. The inverter charger MUST be off or you will trip a breaker on the generator. Just watch the batteries in the coach if your on emergency power for an extended period of time.
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Old 02-09-2022, 01:47 PM   #24
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The reason he has posted the wiring diagram is that it shows the existing wiring on his RV and since the RV is where he is wanting to connect the new wiring that makes it seem important if we are going to give him a straight answer!

But then getting a straight answer on any subject seems to be out of the question at times!
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Old 02-09-2022, 06:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Morich View Post
When wanting to know about the output of the genset, I go to the specs on this sheet:

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/m...et_revised.pdf

At the right side it does say again it is single phase and then tells us what breakers are built on the genset but to get that exact info we would need a definite model number as it varies. It tells me there are several different layouts for breakers with the larger being two 30 amp, combined thought could be looked at as a total of 60 amp if they are doubled breakers and they would trip if either went beyond the theoretical 30 amp. There is the last set showing dual 30 plus a 20 but we might assume that is not the one OP has?? Some check of model numbers would clear that if needed.

Does that look like what you other folks see?

I'm guessing what we are seeing is slightly misleading on power as we see two 50amp breakers in the RV fed by two thirty amp on the genset while your two air conditioners are each run on a single 20 amp! How the rest of the RV load is fed is not clear to me whehter it is split among the twobrekaers or worked off only one of the fifty amp. That means you may run 50 amp when plugged in but never going to get 50 out of the genset on either circuit as you are breakered for 30 on the set?

Again, my "feeling" is that connecting a 30 amp cord on the output of the genset at the auto switch or at the load center is going to be the same as running only one air conditioner for these reasons.

The genset breaker will only allow 30 amp on either of two circuits, so you will not overload without it tripping.
Thoughts of balance are in the three phase area to me and if it is same type problem in this single phase setup, it seems to be the same out of balance load situation that we would get when only running one air?

Thinking of why they want a breaker box balanced, I "feel" it is likely done to help the power provider as they will have three phase at their transformer, so codes are likely set to try to keep the load on each of the three phases there balanced by making each house balanced to some degree.

Theory would say that if we have fifty houses and each house is balanced, then the resulting load at the transformer is also balanced. But knowing that different houses will have different layouts and loads, is that actually going to happen? does the one room cabing with no running water load the transformer the same as the welding shop next door or the six bedroom house with three air?

So I don't worry the issue of balance on the line when not connected to the line!
I see a genset that is set up in a way that it may have an air unit on one leg and nothing on the other if we are using them in that way, so I get the same "feeling" that it is okay?

But for the cord sizing, I see no way to get too much power from the genset if we only tie the load to one of the circuits breakered at 30 amp! It can be breakered at 50 at the load center for cord use but if 30 at the genset, that is all you should get from it.

That's a feeling and should be checked!
All you state is correct. I have the 1st unit in your link ( two 30 amps breakers)

I had purchased a new L14 - 30R with intent to install between generator and ATS via a junction box. But as I think I may just consider coming out of the one leg within the ATS? I stopped and posed the question on this thread because I start hearing that I would damage the windings on one leg? My thinking was IF that was true, it must some other way to safely wired to the L14-30R?

Not confuse anyone, but today, my 30 amp portable genny only has 1 hot leg coming out and it is L5-30R. My adapter/ connector ties both the L1 & L2 wires from the L14-30 cord together so both sides have 120 in the Home Transfer Switch. To do the same, I think part of answer to my own question would be to have jumper so the one hot I choose from Onan 5500 30 amps is jumpered to feed L1 & L2 on the L14 - 30R?
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Old 02-09-2022, 06:23 PM   #26
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I'm going back to post #1 and your diagram. I'm still confused as to where the diagram is coming from. It this your coach circuit diagram? YES and it comes from Winnebago based ion my Coach's serial number If so, lets get this off the board.
Please stick with me on this. I built generator ATS control circuit for a while when I worked in the power department of the phone company. I built portable power generators for emergency services. I'll apply what I learned here. I stuck with you but fail to see why the ATS wiring from my RV is NOT relevant, we might getting off topic though?

Are you positive you have a Automatic Transfer Switch? Yes, I never touch it and it switches back and forth by itself, I call it ATS and so does Winnebago, see the drawing you asked me to remove
In my house I installed a Manual Transfer Switch. To operate it I must plug in and start the portable generator and let it warm up. So do I, I have Connecticut Electric 7500watt 30 amp 120/240 Home Transfer Switch.

Each load is wired to a triple pole, double through, open before close switch. I will not explain the wiring. Just know that this switch prevents the generator power from going to the house service panel and the house service from going to the generator. It selects where the house circuit will get its power from. Yes I have been running that Home Transfer Switch for 10 years, I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING WITH IT AS FOR AS WIRING IS CONCERNED. My thread was how to wired the Onan 5500 to the L14-30R receptacle From your post #12 you have been running your house from a 3500 generator, all 10 circuits. In no way will you overload the 5500.

This is where I was asking what would be safe?
I was told that if I wired to one bank of 30 amp from Genny, I could damage the windings? If I run two both banks of 30 amp then I could exceed the neutral with 45.6 amps?


You need access to the 5500. Right?
Simply pick up the L1, L2, N & G from a added box in your electrical bay. Splice into the coach ATS output feed; the feed going to your coach service panel. Wire your house feed cord outlet here. Then my Neutral could esaily exceed the 30 amps max that my connector, cord, subpanel and home transfer switch could handle.

When you need the emergency power, plug your emergency power cord into your existing power inlet on your house and into your new generator outlet in your coach. Fire up the generator and be happy! Yes this is what I want

Just remember. ALL 120v loads in the coach must be off. The inverter charger MUST be off or you will trip a breaker on the generator. Just watch the batteries in the coach if your on emergency power for an extended period of time.
If I have no power; then I am 100% certain the 120v loads would be off, but if generator is on, I could see the charger inverter getting power?

Did not follow what to watch about the batteries? I have 2 AGM SLR 125 amp/hrs VMax Tanks
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Old 02-09-2022, 06:35 PM   #27
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The reason he has posted the wiring diagram is that it shows the existing wiring on his RV and since the RV is where he is wanting to connect the new wiring that makes it seem important if we are going to give him a straight answer!

But then getting a straight answer on any subject seems to be out of the question at times!
Like I said earlier, I am not sure it was clear to all what I was trying to do.
I just need to know how I can safely wire my Onan 5500 to a L14 -30R

With that said, I appreciate all the help I can get from everyone that is trying to help me It is all good. At the end of the day, I don't want to damage my Onan 5500 which I love, nor my RV's ATS.

I think you are where I was when I got information warning me about wiring to one lead. I may have to have a dealer install this if they will to ensure I have some security about what I may do?
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:03 AM   #28
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That's where I'm only conficdent enough to say I "think" it's okay!
My generator work has been to pull one up and plug it in without having to look at what or why very much, I was there to get the batteries charged and going again and the genset was to be ready for that, without much thought to what or how the power comes out.
But looking at the RV wire setup, if you turn on one AC and nothing else, it would seem like the same load on one leg of the generator two ouputs, so it seems like it might be okay???
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Old 02-10-2022, 08:48 AM   #29
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If I have no power; then I am 100% certain the 120v loads would be off, but if generator is on, I could see the charger inverter getting power?

Did not follow what to watch about the batteries? I have 2 AGM SLR 125 amp/hrs VMax Tanks
I'm sorry about the ATS/MTS confusion. I am referring to you stick & brick.
dkoldman, I'm trying to filter out all of the stuff you don't need to be concerned about. We, who have done this for a living or have a deeper understanding of this topic are trying to do this for you.
Your coach ATS will drop off if you loose power in the coach and have the Auto Start feature set to go. True.
If you have the house added to the generator load, and you have coach loads active when your emergency power situation occurs, you could have a situation where you will overload the generator circuit. In this case, the only thing that will happen is the L1 or L2 circuit breaker from the generator will trip. No big deal. The circuit breakers are device protectors. Tripping is what they do when the load is too high.
Here is a question for you to answer and then have a plan in place to make thing work as you want.
"Do you want to be using the coach as a active, lived in RV and the house as active both at the same time?"
If the answer is YES than you need to be proactive with how you supply power from the coach to the house in emergency situations. That is, how much power do you need for the house through the switches (plural)?

The size of the breakers is not the main concern here. The load placed on each circuit is.
i.e.: A 20A circuit pulling a half amp is putting a half amp load on the L' of the service panel. All the circuits connected to the L' must be considered and totaled to find the load value you are expecting to be place from the house switch to the coach switch.
I hope you are following me here.
I have a few wiring ideas for you. PM me if your interested. We can talk.
Rick Y
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Old 02-10-2022, 05:08 PM   #30
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That's where I'm only conficdent enough to say I "think" it's okay!
My generator work has been to pull one up and plug it in without having to look at what or why very much, I was there to get the batteries charged and going again and the genset was to be ready for that, without much thought to what or how the power comes out.
But looking at the RV wire setup, if you turn on one AC and nothing else, it would seem like the same load on one leg of the generator two ouputs, so it seems like it might be okay???
When I get back to Dallas and have more time, I will call Onan on that load balance thing. That is the only deal breaker I see. If they say I can use one leg up to 30 amps with no issue, I have my wiring solution. If the recommend against it, I conclude the answer to my question is "No, there is no safe way to wire a Onan 5500 to a L14-30R connector?
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Old 02-10-2022, 05:14 PM   #31
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Here is a question for you to answer and then have a plan in place to make thing work as you want.
"Do you want to be using the coach as a active, lived in RV and the house as active both at the same time?" No
If the answer is YES than you need to be proactive with how you supply power from the coach to the house in emergency situations. That is, how much power do you need for the house through the switches (plural)?

The size of the breakers is not the main concern here. The load placed on each circuit is.
i.e.: A 20A circuit pulling a half amp is putting a half amp load on the L' of the service panel. All the circuits connected to the L' must be considered and totaled to find the load value you are expecting to be place from the house switch to the coach switch.
I hope you are following me here.
I have a few wiring ideas for you. PM me if your interested. We can talk.
Rick Y
I don't think my focus has ever been about breakers? Simply how I might safely wire from one or both 30 amp breakers to a L14-30R receptacle. Everything else has been noise.

To my knowledge there are only two options, connect L! & L2 from both breakers and risk overloading the Neutral. I have ruled that out as unsafe 45.6 amps possible on 30 amp connector. cord, transfer switch

And Option two wire off one leg of 30 amps from generator. I will see what Onan says about if that could damage the Generator.

Thanks for all of the help
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Old 02-10-2022, 05:50 PM   #32
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One more try ...

OK I get it. You don't want more than 30 amps JUST 30 amps.

So... Connect your L14-30R receptacle to the L1, N, and GRD. Just don't use the L2 terminal on the receptacle. It's safe. Continue to use your same solution to feed the L2 side of the manual transfer switch from L1 like you did with your portable generator.

I'd just connect it to the transfer switch box on the generator connection terminals with at least 10 gauge 300V or above rated wire.

The 30A thermal circuit breaker in the genny that is in series between the generator output and L1 will limit the current to about 28.5 amps long term. This is less than the L14-30R rating.

One final comment:

AC loads in your RV on the L1 side of the RV breaker box may pull a few amps and the sum of the loads in the RV and house may exceed 28.5 amps and trip the breaker. In particular the RV refrigerator (5 amps worst case) and the RV converter charger (5 amps worst case). Can always flip off those circuit breakers in the RV if you are not using it except to power the house.

Good luck.
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:13 PM   #33
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OK I get it. You don't want more than 30 amps JUST 30 amps.

Correct

So... Connect your L14-30R receptacle to the L1, N, and GRD. Just don't use the L2 terminal on the receptacle. It's safe. Continue to use your same solution to feed the L2 side of the manual transfer switch from L1 like you did with your portable generator.

Yes, but I have to jumper the L1 to the other side of connector L2 so both L1 & L2 are hot on the cord that feed the home transfer switch to be the same solution as my current portable generator.

I'd just connect it to the transfer switch box on the generator connection terminals with at least 10 gauge 300V or above rated wire.

This would avoid me from needing to use a junction box. The wire I would use is actually rated for 600v

The 30A thermal circuit breaker in the genny that is in series between the generator output and L1 will limit the current to about 28.5 amps long term. This is less than the L14-30R rating.

Good luck.
Now that you grasp what I was tryin to do, here is my problem. I was told by several sources and some even citing Onan that if I did the above I could damage the windings on my Generator. I ran my portable 3500 5 days straight last year during the Texas Freeze. So what if were to run my Onan 5500 5 days straight only drawing for L1?

So my question or post was to find a safe way to wire an Onan 5500 SPECIFICALLY to a L14-30R? I know two ways to do, but not sure either are safe ( recommended)
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Old 02-10-2022, 08:28 PM   #34
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If you connect at the transfer switch, I don't agree that you could damage your generator windings.

Why? That connection point is past the generator circuit breakers. You will be pulling power in exactly the same way that the load inside your RV does. The generator does not care if the 28.5 amp load is inside the RV or outside the RV thru an additional new 14-30R receptacle.

If you run a wire from the terminal in the transfer switch with the black wire coming from generator to the 14-30R X terminal and jumper it to the Y terminal that will make both 120 volt hot wires in a cord you plug into it hot.

X and Y hots will be the same phase so you won't be able to run any 240 volt items but you have stated you understand this and don't need it.

The most current that can flow in any wire is limited by the generator 30 amp circuit breaker for the L1 output.
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Old 02-11-2022, 01:53 AM   #35
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If you connect at the transfer switch, I don't agree that you could damage your generator windings.

Why? That connection point is past the generator circuit breakers. You will be pulling power in exactly the same way that the load inside your RV does. The generator does not care if the 28.5 amp load is inside the RV or outside the RV thru an additional new 14-30R receptacle.

If you run a wire from the terminal in the transfer switch with the black wire coming from generator to the 14-30R X terminal and jumper it to the Y terminal that will make both 120 volt hot wires in a cord you plug into it hot.

X and Y hots will be the same phase so you won't be able to run any 240 volt items but you have stated you understand this and don't need it.

The most current that can flow in any wire is limited by the generator 30 amp circuit breaker for the L1 output.
Ding Ding we got a Winner

This is exactly what I was looking for. This certainly sounds safe to me. It at least gives me a bigger hammer to take back those that were advising me that I could damage my windings Thanks for sticking with me and not giving up. The help is greatly appreciated from you and all.
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Old 02-11-2022, 06:41 AM   #36
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Ding Ding we got a Winner

This is exactly what I was looking for. This certainly sounds safe to me. It at least gives me a bigger hammer to take back those that were advising me that I could damage my windings Thanks for sticking with me and not giving up. The help is greatly appreciated from you and all.
Ok. Question 1: What is the maximum load current you will be drawing?
question 2: What size wire is your cable?
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Old 02-11-2022, 07:44 AM   #37
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I think he is getting down close to what he needs as the max current he can pull is 30 due to the generator breaker.
The cord he will be using is set to carry thirty amps for the length it is built and it is ratedfor 30 amp.
He will be getting that potential 30 amp from one of the two sources off the RV generator, rather than using both there but before going into the cord, he will be spiltting/bridging that one single source to both hot leads in the cable, so for heating, etc. in the cord, he will be using two wires on the hot side and one on the neutral side.
This seems to me it will make the cord run cooler if any effect at all?
For times when he might wantto use it to power the house circuits, I would go with flipping the RV breakers off as an unneeded load, except for maybe powering up the converter once a weel, etc. just to keep the batteries there good if the power failure goes longer than that.

Seems the effect on the RV generator will be the same as if he ran with one of the 50 amp load center breakers turned off. That would look the same to the generatoras when he only connects to one of the two, except the is running out the back side instead of through that fifty amp breaker. Seems a bit of overkill for them to have sized a 50 to run in series with a 30 on the genrator but then I'm not into why they would do that?

Does that pretty well match what you other foplks are thinking?
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Old 02-11-2022, 02:32 PM   #38
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I think he is getting down close to what he needs as the max current he can pull is 30 due to the generator breaker.
The cord he will be using is set to carry thirty amps for the length it is built and it is ratedfor 30 amp.
He will be getting that potential 30 amp from one of the two sources off the RV generator, rather than using both there but before going into the cord, he will be spiltting/bridging that one single source to both hot leads in the cable, so for heating, etc. in the cord, he will be using two wires on the hot side and one on the neutral side.
This seems to me it will make the cord run cooler if any effect at all?
For times when he might wantto use it to power the house circuits, I would go with flipping the RV breakers off as an unneeded load, except for maybe powering up the converter once a weel, etc. just to keep the batteries there good if the power failure goes longer than that.

Seems the effect on the RV generator will be the same as if he ran with one of the 50 amp load center breakers turned off. That would look the same to the generatoras when he only connects to one of the two, except the is running out the back side instead of through that fifty amp breaker. Seems a bit of overkill for them to have sized a 50 to run in series with a 30 on the genrator but then I'm not into why they would do that?

Does that pretty well match what you other foplks are thinking?
Can't find where the OP stated this but I think he has 6AWG. That will carry the 50A breaker rated load. I don't think he will ever load it up that full. The neutral of the plug is the question here. That's the reason for my questions. I think it can carry the load he is needing. But his plug must be free of oxidation and a good anti-ox electrical protectant applied.
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Old 02-11-2022, 03:39 PM   #39
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The generator only has two 30 amp breakers and he will be using one of them, so I see no way to get more than 30 amp to the cord. The only place where 50 amp is involved is in the rv which has two 50 amp breakers to provide protection for the RV from the two 30 amp sources!

If I am understanding it correctly it is like this?
I don't think the 50 amp breakers are going to be a factor as they are fed by 30 amp breakers on the genset itself?
And if he turns them both off before using the setup for emergency power at the house, ALL the RV load is disconnected/gone/ unimportant!

I think that part is all okay but when he asked what happens if he uses only one of the two 30 amp sources out of the generator, he was told that was a problem!

And that is where I do not know????
The trusting side of me would say they would not set up an RV so that using it with one of the 30 or 50 amp breakers flipped would damage the generator, but that's where I did not want to say I know enough about generator designs! The trusting side would expect the breakers to be ganged together if that were true so that one tripping would also trip the other so that damage could not happen.
It's not at all unusual for us to use one AC and not the other, so is that unbalanced load between two outputs of the same phase pressing our luck? I assume not as it is done much of the time!
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Old 02-11-2022, 05:47 PM   #40
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FYI, I looked at a internal wiring diagram of the Onan 5500 that is shown in it's installation manual and it shows an internal connection on the generator winding side of the two 30 amp breakers, so that there seems to be only 1 power generation source inside the 5500 that is just split into two distribution outputs, each with a separate 30 amp breaker. Or depending on the version some have two outputs one with a 30 amp and other with a 20 amp breaker.

This also explains why the 5500 outputs the same phase on both outputs.

That would simplify the generator control board design as the generator would see only one output load current and load voltage and would be able to manage the generator and engine to provide the correct voltage and frequency at various loads.
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