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Old 01-10-2021, 01:42 PM   #1
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House battery charging solenoid, 2005 29B

Hello, got a pretty specific question. I replaced the original Trombetta solenoid with something NAPA sold me. Single post solenoid. It originally worked but failed after 2 years. Likely too light duty for the task. Replaced it with a Cole Hersee 24213 two post continuous duty. Lead going to the original single post solenoid comes from ?. Weird wiring setup as that yellow lead (like everything else in a Winnie) has what appears to be a diode attached to it that goes to ground. What/why? Makes no sense. Don't get any power to that lead with ignition on or engine running. NAPA solenoid works when powered up on bench but not in the coach. Perhaps the lead is fused?
Installed 2 post CH solenoid. Found a hot lead when key is on in harness in the box where the solenoids are located. Powers the electric stairs. Using it and another white negative lead I found in same area to power CH solenoid. All working now. Question: is this a correct method? Should there be some 12v low amp power supplied by the alternator when engine is running that is a better alternative v having all batteries connected when ignition switch is on. Is there normally a delay built in to allow more charge to chassis batteries before charging house batteries? Complex question but somebody may know exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody in AK wants to mess with a 15 year old coach so I'm on my own but I'm not exactly a rookie at this stuff. Thanks, Bruce
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:07 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBruce View Post
Question: is this a correct method? Should there be some 12v low amp power supplied by the alternator when engine is running that is a better alternative v having all batteries connected when ignition switch is on.
Reading over your question... I can't really respond. Except for the last question. Yes, when the engine is running the alternator feeds power to both the chassis and house battery more or less equally all the time.

The answer is different on shore power or generator power, depending on your model and how it was set up at the factory. For instance, if you have a newer model with a BIM it will send all charge to the House batteries when on outside power and then send some of that to the chassis battery only when the house batteries are nearly fully charged and the chassis battery is discharged below 12.4v.

If I'm not getting the gist and answering the wrong question I apologize in advance.

Looking at your wiring diagram I don't see a BIM.
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:54 PM   #3
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Yes, I see what you mean on the diode and they are leaving something out as far as I can see.

I did some snips of the drawing and what I see as the way it works. I used green for the start battery that I know is found on the "isolated stud" they show, goes to the left side stud as drawn to meet a wire going to the chassis breakers and when the mode solenoid is pulled, it goes through the solenoid to meet the coach battery I drew in blue. The coach battery also goes to the battery disconnect switch and if operated, on to the breakers for the switched coach items.

I agree that I don't understand the diode on a line which goes to ground in two ways ( Wire FM is shown as ground and it also goes to the mounting screw for ground!) By normal rules on drawings, the current only passes in the direction of the arrow, so they are showing us current would pass from ground to meet the battery at that single stud on the solenoid.

Connecting the incoming battery from the boost switch directly to ground without the diode would be expected to blow a fuse!!! But they show the current going from ground to battery???? And nothing goes into the solenoid coil to make it operate? They "could" drain AC current off the ground doing this but why there is AC on the ground would make me wonder!!!

So we are both confused? So what happens if you use a different source to pull the solenoid and that source is only on when the key is on?

One problem I might see is that it does away with using the boost switch to "jump start" the RV engine.

So if you want to chase it a bit further, I see LR as going to a pin 7 of a plug in second right compartment and then on to sheet 2 and feeding a "battery changeover switch" and that involves the "Ford run only circuit"????

Do you know of the changeover switch? Before doing away with the boost switch feature and not sure what exactly, I might want to check this stuff a little further.

If you are not getting battery on LR when the engine is running or when you push the boost switch, I might go with the idea that there is a problem along this route.

OR I might just be pulling your leg to see if you really like crawling all over the RV!!
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:22 PM   #4
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Richard..thanks fella! Yeah, this is kind of a weird deal as you have found. What's with this diode (I guess it is) connected to both a negative and positive?
The whole setup worked somehow when I bought the MH from who was likely the 2nd owner. There are some other wires in that compartment taped off or not connected. Control type, not mains. I'm glad you can read wiring diagrams..I can't. Blueprints for multi-story buildings yes, wiring diagrams no. Looks like you may be on to something about the #7 pin and the Ford run only circuit. I'll have to look into that this summer when it's not 20 degrees out! Got it up and running by using the step circuit but I'd say you'd be right about no battery boost happening. That's why I always have a jump start/air compressor deal along with me! I own 2 Winnies, this 05 20B Class C and a 06 29R class A in AZ. Surprised on both that there really is no color coded wiring harness for the whole coach. Winnie must have cornered the market on yellow wire!
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:17 PM   #5
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I find lots of different ways for the drawings to show this same area on different RV but this one with the diode is definitely different for a number of things.
For background info if you want to get into chasing ideas, this is a place to find help on reading the drawings, even ifit is still pretty shakey:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...agram/Help.pdf
But for wire ID, this list can be one of the better places to start as the wires are supposed to have a code stamped along the sides:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

That is where I went to the drawing, found LR and checked the list to see it is supposed to be power and FM is supposed to be ground.

I also added a clip of the same area for your 06 Rv and it is much easier to make sense, as it shows FM as bringing ground to the mounting screw which would also be ground and LR is coming from the ignition or the "boost switch when it is pushed. That means battery would come in on LR, go through a coil inside the solenoid to make an electromagnet pull the contacts of the solenoid and that connect the big wires on left and right big lugs together!

Comparing this with the first one, it really makes me wonder how they deal with putting battery and ground on the same point without that being a dead short to blow fuses somewhere! Diodes are like check valves we might find in water lines and they are meant to let power flow through in one direction only and normal drawing shows the direction of flow being in the direction the arrow points. I may have missed things but I never think of current flowing from ground to meet battery without something in between because connecting battery direct to ground is almost the definition of a short! It leaves me wondering if they didn't miss and really mean for the ground to go down on the side at the mounting screw???? Why the diode??

Kind of like a drawing that shows connecting the gas line to the water main?
NAH! Never happens!

But for better progress, if you can spot the wire ID and find that code on the list, you then may be able to say this wire goes from some point to some other point! If some of loose ones say from point "A" to mode solenoid, that might be a good one to consider finding where it should be put back??
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Old 01-11-2021, 01:31 PM   #6
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Richard, that wire ID code sheet is invaluable..actually both of those links are the tops! Magic decoder material...thanks
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Old 01-11-2021, 03:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBruce View Post
Richard, that wire ID code sheet is invaluable..actually both of those links are the tops! Magic decoder material...thanks
Now the big question can get into how well that print stayed on and if we can read it!
But there is another clue at times if we can spot the wire gauge and color as listed on the drawing we can look for the right wire by size and color and if we get a big handful of loose wires we can sometimes start sorting them out until we get down to something we can begin to do some guessing!
Best of luck to you. It's always something if we are doing much of anything!!
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:38 PM   #8
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Solenoid activation

My 2000 Adventurer has a Coach Heater switch on the dashboard. The fan doesn't work so it blows the fuse. I don't remember how I discovered that when that fuse is blown, the engine alternator doesn't charge the house batteries. Check some fuses.
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Old 01-18-2021, 10:16 AM   #9
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on my 2003 Suncruiser I found the Coach heater and the reverse camera were on the same fuse. My Coach Heater fan motor is not working. If I turn on the Coach heater it will blow the fuse that powers the Coach heater blower and the reverse camera.
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:22 AM   #10
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Thanks, interesting information. As I wired the solenoid to the electric step circuit I know where the breaker for that circuit is. When the step quits working I'll know the solenoid is likely not working too..
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Old 03-25-2022, 04:20 PM   #11
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Battery charging solenoid issue 2005 Navion

I'm having a similar issue with the wiring on my battery solenoid that I can't quite figure out. I swapped out my old solenoid that was not working correctly with a Cole Hersey about 2 years ago. It worked great. I just made a couple of changes on my RV one of which being lithium-ion batteries and I swapped out the old solenoid with a LI 225 BIM from Battleborn. I got it in there and wired up which was not an easy job considering the space and location and I thought I had it pretty much all figured out. But my stairs now won't stay out when I close the door to the RV, they always retract. I talked to a rep at Kwikee, he said that there is a white wire that needs continuous 12 volt power or the steps will always retract. On the old solenoid there was a yellow and white wire paired together. Yellow was for the battery boost switch. I am guessing the white wire is the wire to the stairs. But it was wired up really weird there was a diode on the end of the white wire where it was connected with the yellow wire and then the white wire went back to pair up with the white wire so the white wire and the yellow wire were indirectly connected, but on two different posts with a diode on the end, to I guess prevent flow of electricity two directions. I separated the yellow and white wire and just put the yellow wire on the momentary switch on the Bim and the solenoid clicks when I hit the battery boost button so that's good. My gut says to just take the white wire and directly connect it to an always on 12 volt source which would give the stairs the power it needs and to remove diode from this weird double white wire set up.

Before I do this I was hoping that somebody who maybe has more experience with the stuff than I do can tell me if that is what I should be doing or should I leave the diode on the wire. All the fuses back up to where the solenoid is so I was thinking one of the fuses it has always on power would be the logical place to connect it. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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