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Old 12-15-2021, 04:53 PM   #1
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Hot Skin from maintenance chargers

I am currently getting "hot skin" conditions (30 volts worth) on my 2012 Access while charging both the chassis battery or the coach batteries. I use both a Model 15 BatteryMinder and a Model 128cec1 BatteryMinder. The battery cables are connected on both the chassis and the coach batteries. My non-contact ac voltage tester shows the hot skin on all parts of the skin and frame. The non-contact tester also shows ac voltage going from the charger to the battery rather than just dc voltage. There is no other ac to the coach connected other than the chargers. Does anyone have any explanation for the hot skin conditions and for the ac current being put into the batteries? Tech personnel at BatteryMinder had no idea what I was talking about and did not even know what a non-contact ac tester was. Any comments would be appreciated.
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Old 12-15-2021, 06:48 PM   #2
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I had no idea what you were talking about so I did the scientific thing... I Googled it.

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...t-skin-causes/

If you too don't know what Jim is speaking about the above link will at least give you an idea.

And, oh, a "lost ground" seems to be the cause. But I guess Jim knew that so it's not much help.
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Old 12-15-2021, 06:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walleyejim View Post
I am currently getting "hot skin" conditions (30 volts worth) on my 2012 Access while charging both the chassis battery or the coach batteries. I use both a Model 15 BatteryMinder and a Model 128cec1 BatteryMinder. The battery cables are connected on both the chassis and the coach batteries. My non-contact ac voltage tester shows the hot skin on all parts of the skin and frame. The non-contact tester also shows ac voltage going from the charger to the battery rather than just dc voltage. There is no other ac to the coach connected other than the chargers. Does anyone have any explanation for the hot skin conditions and for the ac current being put into the batteries? Tech personnel at BatteryMinder had no idea what I was talking about and did not even know what a non-contact ac tester was. Any comments would be appreciated.
What non-contact tester are you using and what is the voltage range? Fluke makes two, one is for low voltage for use by HVAC guys. Also does your BatterMinder have the de-sulfation function that sends high frequency pulses into the plates and flashes an indicator light?
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Old 12-15-2021, 07:06 PM   #4
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The non-contact tester is a Southwire #40136N. Both chargers have the de-sulfation mode. Both chargers are plugged into an external outlet, not one on the rv. The shore power cord is not connected to any power source, thus the rv is not grounded that way. The cords on the chargers are two wire and not the grounded type.
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Old 12-15-2021, 07:17 PM   #5
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I believe you are seeing phantom or induced voltage. Those non contact testers will lie in that manner, in other words false alarm when no real voltage is present but I have never seen one not report when real voltage is present. I always used Fluke as there were less false alarms with that brand than any of the others. Try touching the metal with your other hand when you are using the tester and see if it stops reporting. Also plug the coach in and try it. Whatever you are seeing it is not a hot skin condition as this can only happen with line voltage. I suspect the high frequency desulfation signal may be causing it, or simply induced voltage along the power cords of the chargers. A good example of induced voltage is a 3 way switch wire, a non contact tester will ring on all 3 wires even when only one is live. After you get to know how to use the tool you can figure out the real hot one by putting the tool at a slight distance and see which one still rings. It's also good for finding ungrounded outlets, the tester will ring even before you touch the outlet while a grounded one will not ring unless you push the tip into the slot. On an open neutral circuit the tester will ring a good foot or so away due to no magnetic field cancellation of the neutral wire. They are useful tools but take some experience in knowing what they are telling you, it's not black and white. 30 year electrician here.
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Old 12-15-2021, 07:24 PM   #6
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Thanks for the information on the non-contact ac tester. I also tested with a multimeter via the rv frame and several other spots to a short ground rod in the soil - that test showed 30 volts on the tester. Is that some kind of false reading also?
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Old 12-16-2021, 06:39 AM   #7
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Thanks for the information on the non-contact ac tester. I also tested with a multimeter via the rv frame and several other spots to a short ground rod in the soil - that test showed 30 volts on the tester. Is that some kind of false reading also?
Did you use AC or DC? was the 30 volts consistent or was it jumping around? Were the battery chargers connected? You could be seeing stray utility voltage from the earth to the chassis which is completing a circuit through your RVs batteries and charger back to earth. The digital DMM could also be seeing a phantom voltage, if you can, try an analog meter. If you don't have access to an analog meter you can try putting a resistor or a load like an incandescent lamp in line with one of the probes, or if you have a low impedance setting try that.
Another way to see if it is stray utility voltage is try putting the charger on another vehicle and test again. Also see if it goes away when you ground the vehicle to your ground rod. You can also shut down your house and see if it goes away. Stray voltage is a fairly common issue on farms but can happen in residential situations and is one of the reasons we bond everything metal in and around swimming pools. If you think you have stray voltage contact your utility. This site explains a little about stray voltage on farms. https://www.wisconsinpublicservice.c...tage/measuring
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Old 12-16-2021, 07:36 AM   #8
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Should you decide to power down your house and if your main breaker is more than a few years old and has never been operated I would suggest leaving it alone and instead switching off all of the individual branch breakers.
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Old 12-16-2021, 08:27 AM   #9
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Thanks for the continued information. No hard core electrical experience here, just trying to follow the advice of various sites such as rvtravel.com and Mike Sokol. Most of the sites recommend the non-contact tester and the use of multimeters to discover problems. It appears that both my non-contact tester and my multimeter may not be up to the task of figuring out my problem. If they both are giving me false readings, just how does one really do the test for the hot skin.
The chargers have been taken off the rv, but the same results were occurring when installed in my aluminum boat and a different vehicle. The test with the multimeter was set for ac. Connecting one probe of the tester of the plugged in charger to one of the battery clips and the other to the wire connected to an external ground rod produced a reading of 60 steady volts. I do not see what good my multimeter is if it can not test for the voltage accurately.
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Old 12-16-2021, 08:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walleyejim View Post
Thanks for the continued information. No hard core electrical experience here, just trying to follow the advice of various sites such as rvtravel.com and Mike Sokol. Most of the sites recommend the non-contact tester and the use of multimeters to discover problems. It appears that both my non-contact tester and my multimeter may not be up to the task of figuring out my problem. If they both are giving me false readings, just how does one really do the test for the hot skin.
The chargers have been taken off the rv, but the same results were occurring when installed in my aluminum boat and a different vehicle. The test with the multimeter was set for ac. Connecting one probe of the tester of the plugged in charger to one of the battery clips and the other to the wire connected to an external ground rod produced a reading of 60 steady volts. I do not see what good my multimeter is if it can not test for the voltage accurately.
It may be accurate, I would pursue some stray voltage testing with your local utility. There may be a problem with the transformer or grounding system including missing/stolen grounding conductors or a problem with the service neutral which is also called the "grounded conductor" which is different from the "grounding conductor" . If it is stray voltage you are not seeing voltage coming from your RV or car but rather a loop from the earth, through your RV and back to earth. Some stray voltages can be excessive and dangerous, at 60 volts it can be felt with bare skin under certain circumstances which I am not going to suggest. I am assuming the voltage goes away when not connected to the chargers?
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:00 AM   #11
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I have just invited Mike Sokol to join in here and comment on this.
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:02 AM   #12
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There appears to be no other problems when the BatteryMinder chargers are not plugged in. There is also no problem - hot skin or voltage showing up anywhere when I use a NOCO G1100 charger. All four of the BatteryMinder chargers create the same readings. About a month ago the utility pole that was within 50 feet of our power service entrance was taken out when a bucket truck knocked over the power and all other utility lines for our entire road. Could that type of outage have caused a power surge of some sort that could have damaged all four of the BatteryMinder chargers at the same time?
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:08 AM   #13
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There appears to be no other problems when the BatteryMinder chargers are not plugged in. There is also no problem - hot skin or voltage showing up anywhere when I use a NOCO G1100 charger. All four of the BatteryMinder chargers create the same readings. About a month ago the utility pole that was within 50 feet of our power service entrance was taken out when a bucket truck knocked over the power and all other utility lines for our entire road. Could that type of outage have caused a power surge of some sort that could have damaged all four of the BatteryMinder chargers at the same time?
In light of the fact that everything appears to be normal when using the NOCO I am back to thinking the high frequency pulse that Battery Minder uses may be fooling your testers. I have one of the Battery Minders and will try it myself later today and see what I get. I am doubtful a surge could cause this type of issue without many other issues becoming apparent.
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:14 AM   #14
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Thanks again - I will be interested in the results of a similar test with your BatteryMinder. Maybe that is the reason for my readings.
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:23 AM   #15
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I just plugged in my Batter Minder 1500. My Fluke non contact tester did not ring on any part of the motorhome and my Fluke 27 DMM measured a voltage of between .30 and .35V between the metal frame and the concrete slab which is less than 1/3 volt. I am a bit stumped and hope Mike stops by soon.
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:33 AM   #16
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Did you try connecting one of the battery clips of the charger with your tester to a ground? Also does your non-contact tester indicate a current at either of the battery clips of the charger when plugged in?
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:42 AM   #17
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I measured from each battery terminal to ground with the Battery Minder connected and plugged in. The non contact tester did not ring at either battery terminal or the frame of the RV or at any of the wires on the Battery Minder until I reached the 120 volt line..
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:44 AM   #18
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I have just invited Mike Sokol to join in here and comment on this.
This is Mike Sokol from RVelectricity. I just logged in and had a quick look at the problem. None of the other comments so far appear to be correct, and I think I know what’s causing the hot-skin voltage. Standby for an hour so I can finish writing an article that’s under deadline after which I’ll reread all the comments and post a possible cause and solution.
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:46 AM   #19
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How about the same test, but with the charger not actually being connected to the battery? Is your rv connected to shore power also? Mine was not with all of my testing. Of course the other vehicle and the aluminum boat had no other power source connected to them except the BatteryMinder.
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Old 12-16-2021, 10:00 AM   #20
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How about the same test, but with the charger not actually being connected to the battery? Is your rv connected to shore power also? Mine was not with all of my testing. Of course the other vehicle and the aluminum boat had no other power source connected to them except the BatteryMinder.
Yes, the NC tester rings then. And I get about 40 volts on the AC DMM from charger plus to a grounded drill press but it floats around, telling me it is a phantom or ghost voltage and I don't believe the DMM has enough resistance to initiate a charge from the Battery Minder. Once I connected an analog meter I got 12 volts from the charger to the grounded drill press which tells me that charger does not isolate the ground which creates a path from the RV to the electrical system ground which is why I suspected stray voltage could be finding it's way.
Waiting for Mike's thoughts
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