Home Power

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by JDHarrin

Bought a 2010 Aspect 28B last week. I called an electrician to install an 30A circuit outside the garage so I can plug the RV in while at home. He's visiting next Monday. In sitting here, was wondering if their would be any benefit to having him install a 50a instead of a 30a for future upgrade purposes? I would think the additional cost would be minimal. I already have a 50to30A dogbone. Thoughts?

It seems the topic got a bit off track. If this is not to be your last RV, I strongly suggest you go for 50A.

There is a little acknowledged electrical panel routine that I follow. I exercise the breakers in my service panels (RV & house). That is, turn them off and on. I try to do this once a year. This helps prevent the contacts from fusing together. A not uncommon problem.

If you are handy at all you can do this install yourself. Care must be taken making certain the screw terminals are free of insulation, tight, not just snug, and that you have not left a ring on the wire when stripping it. This is a mechanical failure point for the wire.
For most installs, #6/3 W/ground is what you need if the total distance to the service panel from the RV outlet is 100' or less. Amazon has RV outlet boxes for less than $40. Choose the correct 50A/240V breaker for your service panel. Plan your wire route wisely and you should have no problem doing the install. For safety sake I suggest that you shut off the Main on your service panel when you are working in it.
Happy trails,
Rick

[Morich]

There is a little acknowledged electrical panel routine that I follow. I exercise the breakers in my service panels (RV & house). That is, turn them off and on. I try to do this once a year. This helps prevent the contacts from fusing together. A not uncommon problem.

This needs a bit more thought before adopting it as good practice. Consider why any set of electrical contacts stick and you will find it is often caused due to the arcs created just as they open and close. Remember the days when cars had to have the points replaced due to arcing?
The more times the contacts open and close the sooner they fail!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

This needs a bit more thought before adopting it as good practice. Consider why any set of electrical contacts stick and you will find it is often caused due to the arcs created just as they open and close. Remember the days when cars had to have the points replaced due to arcing?
The more times the contacts open and close the sooner they fail!

I would tend to agree, but you could do this test without anything connected. Then there would be nothing more than mechanical wear, no electrical arcing. That assumes you don't turn them off before connecting/disconnecting. I'd be more reluctant about leaving an exterior 240 volt outlet turned on for long periods without it being connected, but then I don't trust people.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Morich

This needs a bit more thought before adopting it as good practice. Consider why any set of electrical contacts stick and you will find it is often caused due to the arcs created just as they open and close. Remember the days when cars had to have the points replaced due to arcing?
The more times the contacts open and close the sooner they fail!

I posted from experience, not opinion.
https://activerain.com/blogsview/876...need-exercise-

[Morich]

I do not usually use internet info as reliable without checking and this is certainly a time to ask who and why the info is posted. A home inspector who runs a blog as a means to increase business and profit, is not one I would call reliable without knowing more. Second is the way it is written to cover an extreme situation or where there is very poor at best. He refers to places which should not happen to start with like boxes with open covers or those which allow sawdust to enter!
Anybody with a little thought will know that electrical boxes should not get wet and they certainly should not get so much debris like sawdust in that breakers stop working. Most of the things he refers to are things that we should not let happen. Sawdust is one item that I fight to keep out of all my electrical boxes! Tripping the breaker in a box full of sawdust, loose debris, etc. is NOT a good practice!
Did he mention you REALLY should sleep outside in the RV, until you get things fixed?
The internet is a terrible place to pick up information without checking it for accurate thinking.
What I would consider more accurate is not to test the breakers to see if they work but keep the electrical boxes clear-----to avoid burning the house down! Routinely flipping breakers is one way to promote increased arcing and arcing does burn contacts. Those burned contacts do lead to early failure when done too frequently.
Think of what he says about the arc chute and why it is there?

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

I do not usually use internet info as reliable without checking and this is certainly a time to ask who and why the info is posted. A home inspector who runs a blog as a means to increase business and profit, is not one I would call reliable without knowing more.?

Home inspectors tend to be jacks of all trades and masters of none. Unless the guy was an electrician in his prior career . . . ., and maybe not even then. What the manufacturer has to say would be more credible.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Home inspectors tend to be jacks of all trades and masters of none. Unless the guy was an electrician in his prior career . . . ., and maybe not even then. What the manufacturer has to say would be more credible.

Isn’t this too the Internet?

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

Isn’t this too the Internet?

I think you meant to quote the prior post.

Specifically, this:

Originally Posted by Morich

I do not usually use internet info as reliable without checking and this is certainly a time to ask who and why the info is posted.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think you meant to quote the prior post.

Specifically, this:

Yep. Indeed. I found it, well, humorlessly ironic.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

Yep. Indeed. I found it, well, humorlessly ironic.

The next thing I say to you will be true.
The last thing I said was false.

Devo

[Morich]

Yes, it does sound ironic when we come here looking for information to say that we should certainly not trust the information we find without checking. But on the other hand that is exactly what I meant. Should one trust what we read here without checking it through the old mind filter? Certainly not!
Information is only as reliable as the person who wrote or said it, so we should always begin any study with the idea in mind that some of it may not be true and we need to give some thought and compare what we hear or read with what we already know. Does it match what we already understand or do we need to give it some thought.
Does it come from a place where we see no other interests, like financial gain which might tend to make the info less straight and reliable?Does the explanation sound logical? Does the source give enough information that we can cross check it and does that information come from a source we have found to be accurate and truthful in past experience?
Yes, we do live in a time when we have far more information but also much more of it is not reliable, so I feel we do have to check our information much more carefully.
If a recognised medical person tells me I have a disease, I give it less critical study but if a person on the street wants to sell me a wonder cure, I tend to be much more skeptical!
I do try to judge my sources carefully and I do recommend we all do more of it! There's folks out there who do not have our best interests at heart, especially if they can make a buck by misleading us!

[Goodspike]

You really need to check all sources, even what your doctor tells you face to face if it's important enough.

OT, but the most unreliable source of information has the headline "Fact Check." They tend to be more interested in quantity rather than quality.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Morich

I do not usually use internet info as reliable without checking and this is certainly a time to ask who and why the info is posted. A home inspector who runs a blog as a means to increase business and profit, is not one I would call reliable without knowing more. Second is the way it is written to cover an extreme situation or where there is very poor at best. He refers to places which should not happen to start with like boxes with open covers or those which allow sawdust to enter!
Anybody with a little thought will know that electrical boxes should not get wet and they certainly should not get so much debris like sawdust in that breakers stop working. Most of the things he refers to are things that we should not let happen. Sawdust is one item that I fight to keep out of all my electrical boxes! Tripping the breaker in a box full of sawdust, loose debris, etc. is NOT a good practice!
Did he mention you REALLY should sleep outside in the RV, until you get things fixed?
The internet is a terrible place to pick up information without checking it for accurate thinking.
What I would consider more accurate is not to test the breakers to see if they work but keep the electrical boxes clear-----to avoid burning the house down! Routinely flipping breakers is one way to promote increased arcing and arcing does burn contacts. Those burned contacts do lead to early failure when done too frequently.
Think of what he says about the arc chute and why it is there?

Why are you putting up such a fuss, Richard? A good electrician will verify what I have told you. From experience and training going back to the '60's I have learned the merits of this simple practice.
The technical view is a simple one. Current and oxidation cause light corrosion on breaker contacts. Over time this will cause the breaker functions to deteriorate. This is more true with circuits of heavy usage like found in the case of full time use RV's or heavily used circuits like HVAC, electric dryers and stoves. The breakers in our panels are not sealed units. The more harsh the environment the more likely problems will develop.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Happy Trails,
Rick

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Home inspectors tend to be jacks of all trades and masters of none. Unless the guy was an electrician in his prior career . . . ., and maybe not even then. What the manufacturer has to say would be more credible.

Since this won't go away, I thought I would look for manufacturer instructions. Here are Square-D's:

It is recommended that the circuit breaker mechanism be exercised
annually.

2. Exercise circuit breaker mechanism:
Toggle the circuit breaker handle on and off several times to ensure that
mechanical linkages are free.

Thus is seems to be more of a mechanical issue than an electrical contact issue.

https://download.schneider-electric....f=48049-900-02

[Morich]

I don't feel it is putting up a fuss when I post my opinion which is also based on long experience. If one does not state their opinion, it is easy for lots of wrong or incomplete information to become fact.
I think this is currently stated as "tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth".
That leaves my final thought to be that we do very much need to check any information we get, from any source, and I feel it worthwhile to judge the reliability of that information as part of the process. I value information in this order.
Manufacturer info, quite high, while information from internet blogs or forums is often quite low, as they often have different purposes.
In the industries I've worked, we do not exercise the breakers and do not recommend it as standard practice. In small circuit breakers like on our RV, it is not a big issue and it can be just a personal choice on RV's. On our RV's that's almost always the case.
But I have never worked any place where we exercised the breakers as part of our routine maintenance. We cleaned the place top to bottom, we spent days cleaning and working on batteries, we checked the exit lights and changed the emergency lighting when needed as we tested those but we DID NOT mess with the breakers until we had some reason.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

But I have never worked any place where we exercised the breakers as part of our routine maintenance. We cleaned the place top to bottom, we spent days cleaning and working on batteries, we checked the exit lights and changed the emergency lighting when needed as we tested those but we DID NOT mess with the breakers until we had some reason.

I would agree it's not a common practice, and if it were that necessary the manufacturer warnings would be a lot more prominent than some obscure instructions for professionals. But our RV environment, and particularly the pedestal environment, may be an area where it's more necessary than say the typical garage or rec-room home breaker box.

But yeah, I don't think I'm going to start exercising mine at home any more than I already do, which is to turn off the major breakers during a power outage so that the devices connected don't get fried somehow when power comes back on. That tends to be at least once a year where I live.

[pubtime]

Originally Posted by JDHarrin

Bought a 2010 Aspect 28B last week. I called an electrician to install an 30A circuit outside the garage so I can plug the RV in while at home. He's visiting next Monday. In sitting here, was wondering if their would be any benefit to having him install a 50a instead of a 30a for future upgrade purposes? I would think the additional cost would be minimal. I already have a 50to30A dogbone. Thoughts?

Use 50 Amp service, if you never get a different RV no great loss but if you upgrade to a 50 AMP RV you'll only have to do this again if you go with 30 Amps. It doesn't cost much more to do so.


I'd recommend (to avoid using a dogbone adapter) a 50/30/20 Amp RV box like you find at your favorite RV campground. That will add a bit to the cost, but not that much (maybe $100 more for the box). They have an additional set of breakers on the box so you plug the 50 into a 50 AMP socket, or a 30 into a 30 and if you need it outside you also have a 20 Amp plug (with a breaker) just like in the campground. You also put a 50 Amp breaker at your service panel.



Menards in the Midwest sells this one.



https://www.menards.com/main/electri...118-c-6440.htm


Best thing is if you have friends visit with 50 Amp then you can accommodate them, but when you get that 50 Amp RV you already have it ready to plug in and use.

[JoeC]

I would put in the 30 amp service unless I was planning on living in the motor home and using all of the appliances. 30 amp would be plenty to live with, even running one A/C unit with appliances. Don't assume 50 amp service is not much more expensive.

[69skylark]

I think this would be a great idea. Should not cost much more and not near as much as having it done later, when you compare both trips. Enjoy your motorhome.

[PJTroyer]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Wrong! We had a thread here recently where the user's main breaker was tripping. If that breaker had been defective and he'd been using a dogbone he would have been drawing more than 30 amps. You typically have an A/C unit that is close to 15 amps, a water heater that may draw 10 amps or so, a microwave AND outlets that can also draw 15 amps. A typical RV is able to draw way more than 30 amps if the main breaker is defective. Also there's nothing to dictate that a short before the breaker wouldn't be drawing power in excess of 30 amps and cause a fire.

RV systems are not like home systems where the secondary breakers have typical total usage well less than the main breaker. For example, even though all the breakers at your house may add up to more than 200 amps, you're very unlikely to actually ever be drawing more than 200 amps and trip the main breaker. That is not the case with an RV system.

Also, the Camco dogbone was being advertised as being Underwriter Labs approved. I contacted UW Labs and asked how that could possibly be the case given the safety concerns. It wasn't approved and UW Labs had the description changed by Home Depot.

But if there is any doubt, just try putting a 50 amp breaker on a 30 amp outlet and see what the electrical inspector has to say.

Question for Goodspike:

I have a 30 AMP View and had a surge protector installed in the RV. Does your comment and concern still apply to me if I use a 50 to 30 doggone?