Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-08-2022, 08:01 AM   #1
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Help! New RV Owner 22 Navion - Battery Question

Hi, all....boy there sure are a lot of smart people on this forum! I've been reading through the threads to see if I can find an answer to my question, but no luck (and/or the conversations got so complicated I couldn't follow LOL).

I have a 2022 Navion. I do not have the lithium batteries. I am plugged into shorepower and noticed that my house batteries (reflected on the solar charge panel) have gone down and not up (or stayed steady) after my one-night stay in an RV park. I started at 13V and now I'm down to 11.4V. I had the coach battery ON and the inverter OFF this whole time.

I just turned the coach battery off and most of the stuff in my RV stopped working even thought I'm plugged in. What DOES work is the: microwave, TV, stove. NOTHING else is working....what the heck?? Everything went off besides those things until I turned my coach battery back on. Awesome.

Thank you to anyone who can take the time to help me. I really appreciate it!
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 09:19 AM   #2
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 5,498
No big thing as it gets into RV basics---but the trouble is that there are lots of small points that vary RV to RV.

You have three sets of electronics.
The 12volt DC that the normal car/truck has. Horn,headlights, wipers and they use a chassis or start battery.
The 12 volt coach things like vent fans, lights, CO and propane detectors, etc. inside the coach.
Then there is the 110 AC for things that are too big for 12 volts to work. Microwave, outlets for plugging AC thing like hairdryers? And that includes the air condioner!

The tricky thing is these are connected/disconnected at different times for doing different things.
We often start the engine with the chassis battery but if that is weak, we can push a button on the dash and it connects coach and chassis together for a "boost" for the weak battery. Labeled different things on different make/models. Sometimes "Boost" or "aux" ??
But we want to get a little charge back into the coach batteries as we drive, so there is a gizmo that tie both together as we drive! Run them down dry camping and drive six hours and they will be back to full charge!

What you are likely dealing with is when we plug into shore power, there should be a converter using that 110AC to make/convert to 12 VDC to charge the batteries while we are also using that 12VDC for inside lights, etc. Sounds like the 110AC is okay but not getting the 12VDC to the batteries to keep them charged.

The coach battery does disconnect almost all the 12VDC inside but it does leave the safety stuff like CO and propane detectors still ON! That can be a problem if we store the RV and think we have disconnected ALL the things that drain the battery! We come back after a few months and fine we killed our batteries, so be aware!

This is where it can get ricky to sort out what is happening to the 12volt that should be coming from the charging equipment to the batteries. Sometimes way deep for folks not into electronics!
IF I was sorting this from scratch, I might suggest making sure all switches involved in the power are on when plugged into shore power, there will be a box with different names that uses the shore power to make DC for the batteries. With the coach disconnect switch on, you should be able to use all the lights, etc. and still recharge batteries with no problem. This box may be called inverter, inverter/charger or just converter. Check of the manual my lead to where it is located? Make sure it is turned on and has no sneaky GFCI push buttons that need reset?
That's a lot to figure at one time, so try just looking at it one part at a time until you get enough answers and experience for it to make sense!
It's hard to learn to ride a bike all at once!

See if that gets you any help and ask more questions when needed? Forums don't work if nobody asks questions!

Tell us exactly which 22 Navion and we can look at things like where this box might be located! Three different models that RV.
__________________
Richard
Morich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 09:25 AM   #3
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 5
Make sure your inverter is switched on. Battery won't charge if inverter is off. It's by the steps in my view.
I made this mistake when I bought it.
squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 10:28 AM   #4
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Oh, thank you both for replying! Okay, I've turned the inverter on in both places - I have a switch down by the steps and then another panel in the upper cabinet above the stove and I turned that on.

I checked the breakers and all are on - nothing has been tripped.

I have a 24J floor plan.

Everything you both have said makes sense so far. I suspect there may be an issue with the converter? No idea where that is at. I guess what I don't get is why with shorepower on and no breakers tripped, hardly anything is working? Shouldn't it ALL work even if my house batteries are dead because I'm getting straight power?
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 10:30 AM   #5
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 5,498
Having location, let me look and it seems most Navion have the inverter, which is actually going to be an inverter/ charger to charge the batteries, located near the steps.
Looking deeper at the drawings, I see a potential item which may go beyond having the inverter turned on as mentioned.
There is an amazing site here:
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

This interactive parts setup lets us do lots of study on parts and things without moving from the chair. No crawling needed to look at the inverter!

Located here as the yellow item!

Click image for larger version

Name:	inverter.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	184765

Looking from outside and next to steps.

But if we turn the view around and look " through the walls" we can spot what "Might" need a check as there appears to be a popout breaker on the back side of the inverter as shown here?

Click image for larger version

Name:	inverter2.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	184766

Is this something that can be reached from one side or the other without a lot of trouble. Just reach over or around to feel if it has popped out?

Part of the trouble with using drawings only is that it doesn't tell me!! But a breaker that pops out in a hidden spot might be a real pain to find?

But this is the multi-purpose unit which does both functions. As an inverter it draws DC FROM the batteries to make AC when we are not plugged in. But it also uses AC when plugged in to send DC TO the batteries for charging.
Whatever name we use, that breaker is likely to be important!~
__________________
Richard
Morich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 10:41 AM   #6
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 5,498
Dual posts! The 110AC things should all work but the 12Volt DC things like fans, thermostat on heat and lights inside may not if the batteries are too low and not being charged.
The charge function running would let us use all those 12volt and the batteries are just a storage space. So if the storage runs dry and the charge is not working, then lots of the 12VDC will be dead!
There is also a tricky thing that can happen when the charging is out and batteries go too low. The coach battery disconnect switch makes a relay open or close when we push the switch but that relay needs power to move.
What CAN happen if we get low batteries, is that we push the switch to disconnect the batteries, the charging fails and the batteries are too low, when we push the switch to reconnect them, there is not enough power to make the relay close!
Sort of a cascade of failure?
Notice that the battery disconnect switch doesn't snap and stay on or off but is a momentary switch which makes contact when pushed but flips back when we let go of it? The switch is not the normal like we find on most things and it only uses power to move the relay, rather than using battery power all the time.
So getting good battery power is step one to getting the rest to work and that comes from getting the charging part of the inverter back to working.
__________________
Richard
Morich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:00 AM   #7
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Hmmm...well, I opened the top step and that leads to my two batteries. Now I can't get the step latched back down LOL. Then I opened the outside storage compartment just to the left of the steps and I think I see the inverter (Xantrex). It has a positive opening and a negative opening with conduit leading into those, along with another power button like what I see in the cabinet above the stove. I reached around to the back of it (very difficult to get to) and felt around. It's in a metal caging, so hard to reach. I felt a small circular button like what's in the picture and pressed it but it's not doing anything...it's not really moving in/our or anything. I could barely get to it and just pushed on it with the tip of my finger. Nothing happened that I can tell?

I so appreciate your help!
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:03 AM   #8
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
I see. I know nothing about this stuff....isn't it the converter that takes power from the grid and gets it into the batteries? Do I have a converter versus and inverter problem?
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:12 AM   #9
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Okay...I'm making progress. Both GFCI outlets in the coach were tripped. I reset them but still no power. I'm guessing the inverter GFCI is tripped as well. I just don't know where it is or how to get it it.
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:20 AM   #10
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 3,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagongirl View Post
I see. I know nothing about this stuff....isn't it the converter that takes power from the grid and gets it into the batteries? Do I have a converter versus and inverter problem?
In many (most?), especially older RVs, the batteries are charged via a converter/charger. Based on what's been posted by Morich, your MH's batteries are charged via an inverter/charger instead of a converter.

See p. 6.3 of the owners manual for the info on the input breaker:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...2/20Navion.pdf

Since the inverter/charger is powered by 120V for charging, it's possible that a 120V breaker is tripped. The wiring diagram should help.

See page 6 of the wiring diagram:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000158611.pdf
__________________
Bob C
2002 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
Workhorse Chassis
BobC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:23 AM   #11
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Bob...Okay, thanks! That makes sense. I just dug around behind the kitchen drawers and opened the panel beneath the kitchen sink looking for some type of switch to reset on the inverter, but no luck. I see conduit, but no switches.
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:35 AM   #12
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 5,498
No problem. First we have to get on the bike and then we need to know what the pedals do? None of that stuff we learned in school!

The popout breakers are okay if they are not sticking up at least a 1/4 inch or so. IF they are not tripeed they will feel almost flat as they fly/pop up when tripped. Sounds like it is good.

Sometimes names get things confused.
Inverter takes power from battery to make AC.
Converter takes AC to make DC for batteries and 12volt items to use like fans.

So they call what you have an inverter but it also has a converter section built in! Some RV they are called inverter chargers---just to confuse us?

Different inverter/converter/ charger have different parts and you may or may not have breakers or GFCI on them.

So you found a few GFCI and those are always on the 11AC lines. That means when they are tripped, the 110AC power from that point on down the line to other plugs will not work. A tripped GFCI in the bathroom for instance may leave that plug dead but also others like at the kitchen or even outside. GFCI is to keep up from getting shocked when we are near places wet in many cases. Kitchen or bath or outside in wet grass, but they may also cut off power to the TV in the back bedroom! So just keep in mind where they are and checked them if outlets stop working?

But if still trouble, maybe go through and check for a list of what is still trouble an then we can work each item at a time instead of too many to figure all at once?
__________________
Richard
Morich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:41 AM   #13
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
I'm so grateful to all of you...thank you! I understand now that my inverter is also what is charging my batteries, so that's a big step! I hit the reset button on both interior GFCI outlets and nothing has changed. When I turn the house batteries off, nothing works except the microwave and stove. Before the TV red lights were on but now those are off.
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:42 AM   #14
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
I guess maybe if there are other GFCIs that I don't know about, I should re-set those? And the pop-out breaker on the back of the inverter was definitely not out...I couldn't push it in at all.
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:46 AM   #15
Site Team
 
creativepart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring Branch, TX
Posts: 6,447
Now that you've turned the inverter on and are on shore power can you see your house batteries receiving a charge now?

Hopefully, that's all it was. The Xantrex inverter charger is funny that way. The inverter must be on (standby) for the charger to do it's thing. And, of course, the rotary disconnect in the stair well needs to be on as well. When the inverter is ON and you plug into outside power it automatically goes into standby mode. If you remove outside power it automatically goes into inverter mode.

The Navion Operator's Manual is really vague about all of this and needs updated. They expressly tell you to turn off the inverter when not being used in both the stairwell and on the remote. But they really mean when you are putting the RV into storage. See... when you are plugged into shore power you ARE using the Inverter - to charge the batteries.

You leave the inverter "on" (at both locations) when using the RV and plugged into shore power or on the generator.

Here's where it gets even more confusing. When you are camping without shore power the Operator's Manual cautions you to not leave the inverter on all the time. That's because without shore power you could run down your batteries if the inverter was operating all the time without any outside power source.
  • So, in storage - inverter off both places
  • When camping with shore power, driving or on generator - inverter on both places
  • When camping without any power - inverter on at the stairwell but sometimes on and sometimes off on the remote display depending on your house batteries level of charge and your 110v needs. NOTE: if you start the generator be sure to turn the inverter on at the remote so that your house batteries will be recharged by the charger in the inverter.
Does that make sense? Well, probably not really but do you understand?
__________________
2017 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2016 Lincoln MKX Toad
creativepart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:51 AM   #16
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
LOL...I do understand...thank you!! **So, there is nothing wrong with all of my stuff not working when the house batteries are off and I'm plugged into shore power?** That's normal?

It looks like my batteries are charging now, but the sun is also up and I'm in AZ, so it's hard to say if it's the inverter doing its job or the solar panels. They started charging as soon as the sun came up this morning but were draining all night long, which led to the fridge beeping loudly at 5:00 a.m. and alerting me that I was almost out of battery power.
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:52 AM   #17
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 5,498
On the step latch, what I think of has a small hook on the moving part to go onto a "clip" on the solid section. When we move a metal "arm/lever", it pulls that hook tight down on the "clip" to hold tension on it.
Kind of like your arm moving your hand to pull down on a towel bar???

But be aware that I've never been in a Navion, so may be full of smoke!
__________________
Richard
Morich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 11:56 AM   #18
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Yep...it's just that the latch won't reach all the way up to the cover now, so I cannot re-latch it. I'm on my first solo trip so am on my own. When I get home, I hate to say this but I'll have my husband take a look at it. He is much more mechanically savvy than I am. We all have our gifts and spatial reasoning is not one of mine =).
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 01:14 PM   #19
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 3,365
Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like there's a dedicated 30A for 120V input to the inverter/charger and a second, dedicated 30A breaker for the 120V output of the inverter/charger. Both are located on your load panel with the other 120V breakers. The input breaker, which is the one you should check, according to the diagram is the second from the left and is labeled ORG, which I assume means orange.

Keep in mind that a breaker may be tripped, even if it's not visually obvious, so it's always a good idea to switch it all the way off and then on.
__________________
Bob C
2002 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
Workhorse Chassis
BobC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 01:40 PM   #20
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 16
Okay...I didn't flip any breakers b/c they were all in the "on" spot, so I will do that next. I'll be busy with work/family for the rest of today but can work on this again tomorrow now that I'm home.

Am I correct in thinking that if I'm plugged in, everything should just work with the house battery switch "off" or is that not right? I am re-reading the post up above that talks about dual posts, with some things being powered by 110 and others by 12V, which makes me think that the house battery switch needs to ALWAYS be on for everything to work, even when I'm plugged in. Is that correct?
wagongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Navion Owner Navion24V Welcome Mat 1 03-21-2021 10:09 PM
Hi! New 2016 Itasca Navion 24g owner ChezFitz Welcome Mat 1 07-14-2020 02:59 PM
New Motorhome Owner - 2017 Navion 24G DJKingman Welcome Mat 0 12-24-2019 01:21 PM
New Owner of 2015 Navion 24VP Roadburnz Welcome Mat 5 04-21-2018 11:54 AM
New Navion Owner jcurtisis Welcome Mat 1 03-18-2018 07:22 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×