Going LiPoFe4 - Renogy Sale - Page 5

**creativepart** · 04-23-2022, 03:36 PM

I installed an Amp-L-Start today. Just in time too because my chassis battery was really getting low on charge.

The OEM BIM keeps your chassis battery charged from your house batteries and when you remove the BIM, as I did, and you're not driving anywhere the chassis battery loses voltage in a matter of days.

The Amp-L-Start does basically the same as the BIM to keep your chassis battery charged. It reads the low voltage on the chassis battery and the high voltage on your house batteries and connects the two together. Once the chassis battery reaches close to full charge the Amp-L-Start disconnects them and continues to monitor the voltage. It will also stop it's charging of the chassis battery if the house batteries are getting low, as well (below 13.3v for LiPo batteries).

It was an easy enough install - in fact you pretty much wire it to where the BIM used to reside or at least in the same area and you connect the wires to the same poles that the BIM used to attach to.

It cost $75 and it's made right here in San Antonio. I wanted to pick it up at their warehouse but they shipped in instead.

The should be the last device needed to cover almost all of the functions of the BIM that I lost when I removed that handy device.

**creativepart** · 04-23-2022, 04:42 PM

One more comment - I feel confident about all the decisions I've made and changes I have made to my RV power setup.

However, if I were to do it all over again, or make a recommendation to others, it would be to remove the OEM BIM and install the Li-BIM in it's place. Doing so covers just about every need you will have.

But then of course monitor your LiPo batteries regularly to see how they are doing with modified alternator charging. If it's not working as advertised then remove it and go the whole BIM-Replacement process detailed in this thread.

PS. In case you find this thread when you are looking for info about adding LiFePo4 batteries - this advice relates only to motorized RVs, not 5th Wheels or Travel Trailers.

lenore · 04-23-2022, 10:52 PM

Awsome job, I am jealous that you can now run your microwave. I need to change my inverter from the 1000 watt to a maybe a 1500 or 2000 watt/

**creativepart** · 04-24-2022, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenore

I need to change my inverter from the 1000 watt to a maybe a 1500 or 2000 watt/

To run a Microwave you’ll want at least 2000w.

tim myers · 05-10-2022, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidM

Yes, iinstalling a DC to DC charger is complex, particularly when you want to maintain all of the functions of the BIM.

If I were doing this I would replace that relay with the DC to DC charger. I would then rig up either a manual switch to bypass the DC2DC or a relay remotely operated to do it. This would give me the capability of charging the chassis battery from the coach which is useful for storage as well as combining the two battery systems for aux starting.

David

I agree with you that replacing the factory BIM with the B2B charger makes a lot of sense, now if only Victron would just provide a connection point that would allow us to connect our battery combiner switch to it. Seems everything you need it already there.

tim myers · 05-10-2022, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

One more comment - I feel confident about all the decisions I've made and changes I have made to my RV power setup.

However, if I were to do it all over again, or make a recommendation to others, it would be to remove the OEM BIM and install the Li-BIM in it's place. Doing so covers just about every need you will have.

But then of course monitor your LiPo batteries regularly to see how they are doing with modified alternator charging. If it's not working as advertised then remove it and go the whole BIM-Replacement process detailed in this thread.

PS. In case you find this thread when you are looking for info about adding LiFePo4 batteries - this advice relates only to motorized RVs, not 5th Wheels or Travel Trailers.

I agree with the simplicity of installing the Li BIM, but as you eluded a few posts back what if a 15 minute / 20 minute duty cycle is still long enough to do damage to the alternator, and I agree that the Li BIM will NOT fully charge your Lithium bats like the D2D charger will.

I am chatting with Precision Circuits about what is best and will let you know if they have any information I need to share.

tim myers · 05-10-2022, 09:09 AM

Oh, and this is the wiring diagram form y 2007 Journey

Scan 20220504.pdf

tim myers · 05-10-2022, 10:55 AM

Daniel with Precision is saying the Li BIM 225 would be a direct replacement for my existing BIM except that with a 160 A alternator I would need a minimum of 300 AH of battery based on a max charge rate of 50 A per 100 AH BB battery, since their BIM does nothing to regulate amperage. Yes the math is 160 amps vs 150 amps, but he says that with cable lengths it is close enough. 400 AH would be the ticket though.

DavidM · 05-10-2022, 12:21 PM

If you pull 150 amps from a 160 amp alternator it will soon be toast.

Balmar who I got to know well in my boating days has a temperature probe for the alternator that interfaces with their external regulator and when the case temp gets near 200 F it cuts the current in half. On my boat with a 125A high output alternator I would often leave the anchorage with 50% full batteries, pulling 100 amps from the alternator and after 15 minutes the temp probe would cut back the charging amperage to 50 for the next several hours until the batteries got near full and the case temp dropped.

These were Balmar's basic high output alternators which have heavier windings and diodes and better cooling than OEM alternators. So if they set up their temp probe to keep continuous charging current below 80% of rated output, I believe that most OEM alternators need to be kept below 50% and of course that includes normal driving loads which with today's electronic controlled vehicles is a lot.

David

tim myers · 05-10-2022, 08:09 PM

That is kind of how the Li-BIM-250 works, if the engine is running and the chassis bat is at or above 13.4 v, and the house bats are at or below 13.3 the bats are connected and the alternator is charging the house bats, for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes the batteries separate for 20 minute and the voltage is read again, if the chassis is still higher than the house it starts another 15 minute charge cycle. This is supposed to protect the alternator, I would like 10 minutes better than 15 but that is just me.

If the BIM ever sees the chassis bats below 12.5 V and the house at or above 13.5 the batteries connect for an hour (this would be assumed to be when the engine is off.)

The Sig connection does hook up to the Bat Boost switch to combine the batteries when the key is in the crank position, and keeps them connected as long as the switch is held.

I want the BIM to work so bad, but I think my best option is to put in the DC to DC charger. Just trying to figure out how to keep my battery boost functionality.

BobC · 05-11-2022, 04:43 AM

A DC to DC charger seems to be such a simple solution why resist?

**creativepart** · 05-11-2022, 07:11 AM

It would be more helpful if the Li-BIM had some current regulating features and was more than just an off/on Switch.

The D2D charger works great and was not very difficult to install. But then I also needed to instal an Amp-L-Start as well to keep the chassis battery charged, too.

If the Li-BIM was more capable then the day I removed the OEM BIM I could have simply installed the new Li capable BIM and been done. No need to buy two other devices and their associated cables, termination, etc and complete the installations on them both.

**creativepart** · 05-11-2022, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim myers

Just trying to figure out how to keep my battery boost functionality.

That is the function I have lost. I suspect that there is a relay available that could provide only this function.

With the Amp-L-Start installed my chassis battery is always fully charged. So, that function may not matter any more.

I carry jumper cables in the toad and could always use them if needed.

tim myers · 05-11-2022, 07:55 AM

I see a potential easy setup, but would like to run it by you guys, See the attachment. I could disable the Exist BIM and use it as a terminal as shown in the attachment. I can see setting up a switch to jump around the Orion for a boosted start on the rare occasion I would need it, wonder if that would harm the Orion in any way. Thats a question I could ask Victron.

Also as Creativepart did I would install an Amp-L-Start to keep the chassis battery charged. That should be a direct replacement for my Trik-L-Start I thinkScan 20220511.pdf

JD4x4 · 05-16-2022, 10:22 AM

Wow. Great thread but it's going to take a while to digest all of this and see how it applies to my Project (Renogy 200BT smart battery and Kreiger 2000 Inverter into my antique 2004 Winnie 24F with solar)!

So far I was planning to keep the Winnie power panel, add a relay to toggle between shore power & inverter for 110 circuits, with a diode to only feed 12v to the panel but not use the panel to charge the house batt, which will get charged by a dedicated 110v lithium charger on shore power and the alt on the road. All of this (so far) will fit under my dinette seats & I need to shoe-horn the 200BT into the compartment under the entrance stairs (I hope!).

I had planned on rolling the dice and leaving the alternator charging the chassis & house batteries as-is due to fitment space and battery cable termination locations .. but I'm having 2nd thoughts about Li batt longevity due to the unique Li battery charge profile needed. I'm not worried about overcharging of the Li batt because the built-in battery controller is supposed to handle that, but now I'm thinking I need to rethink the crude 04 Winnie battery solenoids in favor of a DC-DC charge controller & new chassis-house disconnect and/or Aux start functions. And then there's my 170A Chevy alternator.

Whew. Almost a shame we love the low mileage old girl & it's layout or we should really buy a new RV that's set up right out of the box. No solar experts near me either, here in Maryland!

JD4x4 · 05-20-2022, 06:52 PM

My Winnie is old enough that it only has 2 battery relays- The house Battery disconnect and the engine running/charging/Aux start relay. Or at least I understand that to be how my system works from pouring over the crude Winnebago "schematics" (which are actually harness routing sheets with added semi-abstract component illustrations!).

If I understand my relays correctly (and I'm 99%+ sure I do) then when the ign. is on the relay connects Chassis & House battery positives so that charge current from the alternator goes to the Chassis battery but also to the House battery. And the Aux Start/Boost switch triggers the relay as well during cranking (?). I'm basing some of this on the fact that we had that relay go bad on us during a trip to Alaska and the House battery went dead while boondocking because it was not being charged when we drove. Since the generator starts from the House battery, we got a jump so we could run the gen to charge the House battery while we drove out of the boonies & into town for a new relay.

.. Anyway, I think I'm going to use a DC/DC charger (Victron 12/12-30) that has an ignition input and wire it to using the ign. input wire on the relay (removing it from there) but leaving the Aux Start wire. I'm going to re-review my schematic, but I think simply doing that plus running an extra, short heavy gauge wire from the relay Chassis side of the relay terminal to the DC-DC charger .. should give me the battery holy grail. Anyone familiar enough with the old non-BIM 2 relay system care to comment??

tim myers · 05-23-2022, 07:16 AM

JD, my Journey also only has two relays same as yours and I think you have the sequence correct as based on my research. When I get my Journey back from annual maintenance I plan to verify when the isolation relay is energized. I think I have come up with a way to install the DC to DC charger without a lot of demolition and have a question in to Victron about my proposed setup. I will report what they tell me IF they aver respond to my question.

JD4x4 · 05-27-2022, 12:04 PM

I've spent WAY too much time looking at Winnebago wiring info, and since I'm an ex-auto tech & familiar with "Valley Forge" style schematics, I had a go at reproducing my Chassis & Coach battery circuits. Here's what I have so far, but I haven't yet gone out there and taken any DVOM measurements to see if I have the switch & relay schematics accurate. FWIW.

My guess is that yours may be very similar but I'm not sure when they stopped using the Chevy chassis and there are some differences in the wiring of the Chassis battery routing & termination points afik.

**creativepart** · 05-27-2022, 02:15 PM

JD4X4, because you uploaded your diagram to your Album here and then embedded that image in your post it cannot be enlarged to be more readable.

If you ATTACHED your image rather than EMBED your image and if the image you attached was a full size large image then the forum software would resize it for fitting into your post - but when a user clicks on it it will open and display in full size.

If you need info on how to attach an image go to this post for instructions:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3773760

JD4x4 · 05-29-2022, 10:03 AM

Thanks @creativepart. I somehow overlooked the "paperclip"!
Is this better?

I haven't yet verified the relay & switch parts, but when I do I'll clean this up and indicate where I'll add the Victron and wiring to it, as well as do a 110v schematic on my planned Li 110v charger & the shore/inverter isolation relay I think will work. Most all of this should fit in the existing space under my dinette seat areas (I hope!).