Generator Starting in Cold Weathrr

Kicker3d · 01-09-2022, 08:50 AM

I am wondering if anyone else has experience with the situation I am finding myself in. Last summer I had to take apart my qg4000 and replace some parts because I didn’t exercise my generator as often as I should have and the old fuel caused major problems. After I did the repairs the generator ran great all summer. This year I am attempting to exercise my generator every month to avoid the pain of needing to do those repairs again. Here is my problem. I live in northern MN and we have had quite a cold snap as of lately. The other day I woke up to -36 degrees Fahrenheit. Durning the day it does warm a bit, into the low 20s at times, but the temps are usually hovering in the teens durning the day and plummeting far below zero once the sun goes down at about 5pm. I have been waiting until the “warmest” part of the day to attempt to exercise my generator, but the generator will only click and won’t crank. I am guessing this is because the generator starts on the house batteries and being that the house batteries are deep cycle batteries they don’t provide enough CCA to start the generator. If the generator ran off the chassis battery I am guess there would be enough CCA to start the generator. I have made sure both my house batteries and chassis batteries are fully charged. I have fully synthetic 5w30 oil in the generator. To make things worse I did not have a fuel stabilizer in my fuel tank when the generator ran last which means I am on track for more fuel related issues once it warms enough to get the generator started. I have tried the battery boost button which had no effect. Anyone have any ideas about this? I really don’t want to swap batteries around if at all possible. It’s too cold for that.

Morich · 01-09-2022, 09:14 AM

One of the easier , and most often missed, things to make starting the generator go better, is simple! Start the RV engine first! It is easy to miss while reading the big manuals but if you start the RV engine first, that does lots of good things, Oneis that it also exercises that engine which is good but it also allows the modesolenoid to connect the twobattery strings together for charging the coach battery abit while we drive.

Connecting the start battery with the engine alternator charging it and the coach battery together with the coach battery getting help from those two, makes the generator get much better power as it may need to crank longer than normal!

Of course one of the best ways to make sure the engines start better is to check all the connections on those cables. But that is a job far better leftfor warmer weather, right?

Anything we do that requires more than normal battery current, like extending jacks or slides or starting the generator, is better with the RV engine running first!

Kicker3d · 01-09-2022, 10:39 AM

Last weekend I attempted to start the generator with the coach engine running. I don’t like to let vehicles sit long. It always leads to problems. I put 40 miles on the coach last weekend. I also kept the coach plugged into shore power Friday-Sunday when I wasn’t driving. In theory this should have kept a charge on the batteries. Yesterday I drove another 40 miles and took my kids to a sledding hill while I was trouble shooting the generator. I let the coach engine idle for approximately 45 minutes once we arrived to the hill. Again the generator would not start with the coach engine running. Just clicking. No cranking. This weekend I hooked all three batteries to trickle chargers until they had a full charge. When initially attaching the batteries to the trickle chargers all batteries read 95% which means they were not low. Even though it’s freezing out, I disconnected the battery cables. They where slightly corroded. I used a wire brush to clean them. I reattached the battery cables. When I went to start the generator there was no change. Just clicking. No cranking.

DavidM · 01-09-2022, 10:43 AM

If the generator clicks but doesn't turn over when you hit start, then you almost certainly have low voltage and bad coach batteries. The aux start button should help with this, don't know why. Maybe leave the button on for a few minutes to put some charge into the coach batteries.

The Onan 4000 takes less than 100 amps to start (there is a 100 amp breaker protecting the start circuit on mine) and any decent deep cycle coach battery should be able to handle that.

You can hook up your car's battery with jumper cables to the coach battery and try that. Leave it hooked up for 15 minutes at least with the car's engine running before trying to start the generator.

Always use a fuel stabilizer like Stabil. When you get your generator started, add the recommended amount consistent with your gas tank level, drive around for 15 minutes to mix it up and with the generator running, to pull the stabilized fuel into the generator.

I store my MH outdoors and although my climate in NW Connecticut is probably at least ten degrees warmer than yours on average, I wait until it is 40 degrees out to start the chassis and generator and let them run for 15 minutes. I hook up a portable AC heater to put some load on the generator.

Edit based on OP's post above: I have seen batteries that showed good voltage while on a charger not be able to start the engine. Use a known good battery, your car's battery to try to start the generator.

If it won't start then, then there may be a problem with the solenoid. Try jumpering it.

David

Kicker3d · 01-09-2022, 11:45 AM

I am starting to lean toward bad batteries also. It’s a little disappointing though being to bought all three Duracell batteries less than 10 months ago. To my knowledge the deep cycle batteries have not depleted that much. The longest they have gone without a full charge is about 30 days. I always shut off the house battery kill switch when I park the coach for any extended period of time. When I checked the battery indicator on the coach panel it indicated 2/3. Full. That’s the lowest I have ever seen the coach batteries indicate. Not sure you can really tell much by the indicator though. I am a little nervous connecting jumpers between a good battery and coach batteries. I did the same kind of thing last spring to my home generator and fried a $1200 generator control board somehow. I was going to remove the coach batteries today and bring them in for a load test, but changed my mind once my fingers froze. I returned from a trip to Florida added Stabil to my fuel tank and topped it off once the coach had sat a month. I ran the coach engine to work the Stabil through. Then I went to run the Stabil through the generator and it wouldn’t start. I am really dreading having to replace parts of the generator again due to old fuel once I finally get it going again.

Kicker3d · 01-09-2022, 12:19 PM

Finally worked up the courage to take the batteries out. I turned on the furnace in the coach. Let it warm to 70 degrees inside and worked from the top of the stairwell from the inside. Metal was still cold and I can see the snowy ground through the battery tray area, but it was definitely better than working from outside the coach as now a windchill warning has just been issued. The way I look at it is either I suffer now figuring this problem out in the cold of winter or I wait until spring and have to deal with old fuel like last spring when I had to clean the carburetor and replace the fuel pump because of old gas. I should know by now living in MN my whole life nothing works like it should when things get extremely cold. Should have ran the Stabil through the generator before it got this cold. I thought the generator would fire right up on days it was in the teens or low 20s. Who knows maybe it still will once I get the batteries load tested and replaced if bad. I am hoping the 5 year warranty I was told I had will hold up if the batteries are bad. Crossing my fingers.

Morich · 01-09-2022, 03:27 PM

Keep in mind that the batteries may be good but the connections from the battery to the generator takes a different route than from the start battery to the RV engine. So if the cables to the generator are dirty at any number of connections, there may be enough power getting through the dirty connections to click but not to turn the engine.

Dirty cables act very much the same as weak batteries!

Note: Cheaper to fix but harder to find than weak batteries! So if a load test says the batteries are okay, check the cables? I very much lean toward dirty cables if the batteries seem weak even when the RV engine is running!

Morich · 01-09-2022, 07:13 PM

Found some more info that "may" help if you get beyond looking at the battereis and need to check cables?

The wiring comes from this drawing on page 1:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_183616.pdf
The picture of location comes from this on the parts catalog:
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/2013/182643.htm

The cable setup is a bit different on your Rv thanothers I have looked at but works much the same. In the first drawing snip, the power from the chassis or start bat.(red) is shown coming in on the left of the solenoid, with the controls wires from the dash switch (blue) coming down from the top. When you push the momentary dash switch or the ignition wiring is hot (running) the power comes down to the solenoid coil and makes it close the contacts.
This solenoid closed makes start power go through to the right lug and across to the battery disconnect left lug where it is on the same lug as the coach batteries power! They are connected while engine is running or as long as dash switch is held on.

The right side of that drawing shows how SOME of the coach power is NOT cut off athe disconnect relay while a good portion has to go through that cutoff and is killed by the disconnect.

Since you have not mentioned any problem with running the furnace, lights, etc in the RV, I am assuming that thepower is getting to and through this disconnect relay and to most of the RV.

BUT this is where things can be in a mess, if the cable going to the generator start solenoid is not making good contact on the right side of this relay, it may be a problem or at the far end on the solenoid itself?

I'm thinking these are likely behind the breaker panel and if like mine are a real pain to get to them and not something a guy with cold hands might want to tackle if he could avoid it!! I had to take the breaker panel out to even see mine!

I might want to first check the conections on the generator first before going for the hard stuff! But maybe you find the batteries are actuall the problem and you don't have to go here at all.
But maybe some day you might and you might be ready to find them then, so here the info and best wishes for being lucky enough to not need it!!

dkoldman · 01-09-2022, 08:37 PM

For what you described, should you even be trying to exercise? Check your manual as the temperatures you describe may be too cold to run the generator anyway. I get the issue you had before with fuel, but the problem may have been that you did not follow the winterize / storage procedure for the generator?

I use my genny all the time, so yes it you running and I mean use it at every opportunity it will be your best friend, but for prolonged extended sub zero and freezing temperature, winterize per manual and you will be good to Spring.