Every battery dead (almost) in 7 days??

SargeW · 12-18-2006, 06:53 AM

Here is my latest head scratcher. I used the rig for a weekend and brought her home and put it in the driveway on Dec 10th. Yesterday the wife went out to put some clean towels in the rig and the door wouldn't unlock with the key fob. After some investigation I discover that ALL the batterys in the rig are dead.

A volt meter on each one showed about 1-2 volts at the posts. All 5 batteries, 3 coach and 2 chassis batteries. I plugged into shore power, and barely got a single light to dimly come on by the one place monitor panel.

Even the converter panel was so dead that the display wouldn't come on. I checked the whole rig and saw nothing that had been left running.

I put my plug in battery charger on 10 volt charge on the chassis batteries and after a few minutes the electric step would come out. I set the charge for 10 volts and let it charge for about 2 hours.

When I came back out to check on it, the house batteries seemed to be slowly coming back, but the house batteries were still way low (3-4 volts). The converter panel still wouldn't come on. I decided to see if the chassis batteries were strong enough to turn the motor over. I hit the key, and after a few cranks the Cummins came to life. The volt meter on the engine battery showed about 14+ volts going to the chassis batteries.

The house battereies were still way low. I next started the Generator. That was the magic that the house batteries needed. All the house circuts jumped to life, and the converter panel lit up and showed 14+ volts going to the batteries. I let the engine run on high idle for about 20 minutes, and the generator run for about 30 minutes. All the systems seemed to be working fine, and I even turned the heat pump on and let it run for about 20 minutes. The generator did fine.

I shut the engine down, and left the battery charger run on 10 volts on the chassis batteries for about 2 more hours. Before I went to bed I dropped it down to 2 volts for the next 8 hours. This morning I dropped it again to a .3 volt maintainer charge for 8 hours. Hopefully they will hold the charge.

The house batteries showed about 12.4 volts when I shut the generator down. When I last checked it this morning, the house batteries showed about 12.6 volts. It is still plugged in, and the converter/charger seems to be working normally. Hopefully they too will come back and hold a charge.

So the $64 question is, WHY?? What could have drug down BOTH battery banks that badly in 7 days? No lights on, no appliances running, nothing unusual that I could see. The only unusual thing that I haven't fugured out yet is that the dash radio will not turn on. Either on shore power or with the engine running. It is displaying "0132 PM" on the display, but does not react to the power switch, and the display does not change.

Any guesses guys?

Sarge

SargeW · 12-18-2006, 06:53 AM

Here is my latest head scratcher. I used the rig for a weekend and brought her home and put it in the driveway on Dec 10th. Yesterday the wife went out to put some clean towels in the rig and the door wouldn't unlock with the key fob. After some investigation I discover that ALL the batterys in the rig are dead.

A volt meter on each one showed about 1-2 volts at the posts. All 5 batteries, 3 coach and 2 chassis batteries. I plugged into shore power, and barely got a single light to dimly come on by the one place monitor panel.

Even the converter panel was so dead that the display wouldn't come on. I checked the whole rig and saw nothing that had been left running.

I put my plug in battery charger on 10 volt charge on the chassis batteries and after a few minutes the electric step would come out. I set the charge for 10 volts and let it charge for about 2 hours.

When I came back out to check on it, the house batteries seemed to be slowly coming back, but the house batteries were still way low (3-4 volts). The converter panel still wouldn't come on. I decided to see if the chassis batteries were strong enough to turn the motor over. I hit the key, and after a few cranks the Cummins came to life. The volt meter on the engine battery showed about 14+ volts going to the chassis batteries.

The house battereies were still way low. I next started the Generator. That was the magic that the house batteries needed. All the house circuts jumped to life, and the converter panel lit up and showed 14+ volts going to the batteries. I let the engine run on high idle for about 20 minutes, and the generator run for about 30 minutes. All the systems seemed to be working fine, and I even turned the heat pump on and let it run for about 20 minutes. The generator did fine.

I shut the engine down, and left the battery charger run on 10 volts on the chassis batteries for about 2 more hours. Before I went to bed I dropped it down to 2 volts for the next 8 hours. This morning I dropped it again to a .3 volt maintainer charge for 8 hours. Hopefully they will hold the charge.

The house batteries showed about 12.4 volts when I shut the generator down. When I last checked it this morning, the house batteries showed about 12.6 volts. It is still plugged in, and the converter/charger seems to be working normally. Hopefully they too will come back and hold a charge.

So the $64 question is, WHY?? What could have drug down BOTH battery banks that badly in 7 days? No lights on, no appliances running, nothing unusual that I could see. The only unusual thing that I haven't fugured out yet is that the dash radio will not turn on. Either on shore power or with the engine running. It is displaying "0132 PM" on the display, but does not react to the power switch, and the display does not change.

Any guesses guys?

Sarge

John Hilley · 12-18-2006, 07:20 AM

I think you mean you set the charger to 10 amps, not volts. At that charge rate it would take many hours to make a difference in totally dead batteries. The converter puts out 60 or more amps and can charge the batteries as well as provide 12 volts for coach electrical use, that is why it came to life right away. Plugging into AC should accomplish the same as using the generator.

DonavonP · 12-18-2006, 07:26 AM

Sarge, I seem to recall that Winnebago is deliverying it's new coaches (2006 +) with the Trik-L-Start device. This thing keeps the engine/chassis batteries charged up by taking power from the coach batteries. If you aren't plugged into 120volt, then the Trik L Start will drain all the batteries.

That's my guess.

JamesOne · 12-18-2006, 07:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you aren't plugged into 120volt, then the Trik L Charge will drain all the batteries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that is correct. See Trik-L-Start's web site: Trik-L-Start

Under their Features they say:
Unique design "steals" power from your house battery charger
Automatic shutoff - Won't run down your house batteries

dstinch · 12-18-2006, 11:36 AM

i just went thru that,my converter went out so my house batts were dead!!!!!! after starting motor it took over 5 min. for the one place pannel to start working. the batt. relay in front of Mh just clicked on then off. i have a 06 journey with the trickle start thing on it so the starting batts. were ok sort of. it did start but didn't turn over to fast. im now testing house batts. to make shure they take a full charge and hold a full charge. Don

SargeW · 12-18-2006, 12:35 PM

John, you are right, the post should have said "amps"

Don, that's what surprised me the most. I could see the house batteries being dead if something got left on, by why the chassis batteries? And that radio thing has me

Im curious to see what is going on with it when I get home tonight.....

I just hope I am not about to buy 5 new batteries.......

Navy Flier · 12-18-2006, 01:31 PM

The first place I would start would be to have someone check the converter/charger. You stated that when you plugged into shore power you got very little response but when you started the gen. you got a normal full electric response. There should be no difference in the electrical capability when comparing shore power and the gen. It could be something such as an intermittent dead short in the converter. In any case you need someone with the requisite RV electrical expertise to fully check out the system.

Oh-one · 12-18-2006, 02:26 PM

Did you check the connections on the trickle start ? Are the + conductors going to the correct battery post? The trickle start may be failed and going to ground also.

Bill Gotthelf · 12-18-2006, 05:32 PM

Navy Flyer I had the same thing happen to me. Batteries (house) were dead and pluging in to shore power would not charge batteries or power any 12 volt systems in the coach. I started the engine and then the generator. All 12v came back and when I shut down engine and generator it worked fine on shore power. I believe the charging system that Winnebago uses will not allow the House batteries to take a charge if they fall below a certain voltage but the generator brings the voltage up so the charging system (on shore power) will work.

SargeW · 12-18-2006, 05:50 PM

Navy Flier, could the inverter/charger go bad and kill BOTH sets of batteries?

I checked the voltage at the batteries tonight when I got home and both sets seemed to be recovering. The inverter/charger display indicated a float charge of 12.4 volts. and the chassis batteries were standing at 12.7 volts.

For the meantime I am going to leave it hooked up to shore power. I may unhook this weekend and monitor the drop.

And I figured out the radio problem. There is a tiny little reset button on the lower right corner of the face plate that is not marked. I pushed the button, the display went off then came on normally. I hit the power button and all was well.

Bill is right about the power charging system not working if the batteries are too depleted. I found that in the inverter documentation. It needed the kick start from the generator to fire off the inverter/charger.

I may have the dealer check the inverter for a short.

Why can't I say that with confidence.........

Pubtym · 12-19-2006, 04:35 AM

I have an 06 Suncruiser. I'm on converter #3 and house batts set #2. Original converter went out and house batts went down to below 10V. I had to do all the same boost starts etc. trying to diagnois all but every time failures came back to the root problem...the converter. Converter is made in China.

SargeW · 12-19-2006, 05:29 AM

What brand and model of converter are you using? Are the replacement converters the same brand?

Thudman · 12-19-2006, 06:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There is a tiny little reset button on the lower right corner of the face plate that is not marked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine is marked "Reset", but I never noticed it til you mentioned it. Thanks.

Thudman

Pubtym · 12-19-2006, 12:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SargeW:
What brand and model of converter are you using? Are the replacement converters the same brand? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Factory installed all same...Series 7400/Parallax Model 7455T (55amp/975 watt).

Have you identified where your converter is? When hooked to shore power can you feel or hear it humm? Can you hear the converter fan cooling cycle on and off?

It's A Good Life!! · 12-19-2006, 02:31 PM

WOW! I have a 2006 Adventurer 35A. The very first month we took her out, we woke up in the middle of a hot summer night to no AC. All our lights were dim. Turned on the generator, checked the shore power...no luck, even the refrigerator went out.

We were lucky to be able to start the engine, which of course lights, everything, etc started coming back to normal. Turned the engine off and everything went to crap again. Needless to say we had just arrived earlier that night for a four-day weekend. Unfortunately, we had to head back home at 5:00 a.m. and it was already getting hot as ****.

Long story short, we took it to our service department that afternoon and they suggested the converter be replaced. We did (a week later) and every thing worked great. Took it out three-weeks later arrived at night to a CG and before we even put the awing out it did it again!! Thought I was going to pass out...LOL.

This time I was not about to turn around and go home. Early the next morning (not as hot) contacted Winnebago and they had the service department tech come out to our CG. He noticed a faulty wire in the newly replaced converter (what are the chances of that!) so he had a converter picked up and delivered to our site and he replaced it.

I will forever remember the excellent customer service we received from Winnebago!!

It's been over eight-months since our black out and we've had no issues.

Navy Flier · 12-19-2006, 02:39 PM

I am surprised that you were able to start the engine after only two hours of charging. Diesels take a bunch of juice to start, hence the two batteries. Same comment about the generator.
However, you are right about the lack of charging if the batteries fall below a certain point. The question is, how did they get that way. If you did not turn off the house batteries they could discharge in 8 days, depending on how much parasite load your coach has. The chassis batteries should not discharge that fast. Typically they take about three weeks to get down to 12 volts. All of that is why I said to get the converter checked. Especially since the shore power did not give you full electricity. Shore power capability is why we all hook up at any campground.
I would also have the batteries checked since they can be damaged by being discharged to almost zero. Find an auto parts store that can load test them. If they are damaged the result will show up at the most inopportune time; in the rain, at night, etc.
If you suspect the Trik-L-Start you can disconnect it for a period of time.
However, I still go back to the converter which is in the electical path when you connect to shore power.

Bill Gotthelf · 12-19-2006, 03:45 PM

Last October while camping in North Carolina another Vectra came in (36' new 2006)and parked beide us. He was having electrical problems and could not get his 12v stuff to work. I checked everything and even running the motor and generator would not allow 12v to work. I checked his batteries and they were almost bone dry. We refilled them and he left his generator running until they would accept a charge. They finally held enough charge to work on shore power but the next day he found a dealer and had the batteries replaced.

Kazoo Tom · 12-19-2006, 04:52 PM

I had a similar problem on my little Brave. I had been having problems with my steps not working correctly. They were operating sporatically. I suspected that the "brain" (control unit) might be going bad. It is too cold and damp to be crawling under the unit now, so I haven't done much to check it out. Went out about a month ago to start the engine and found all the batteries dead. I too have a Trik-L-Start. Plugged in and found that the charging side of my converter was not working. Hooked up my charger and charged up the batteries enough to start the coach and generator. Once the batteries were up a bit the charger in the converter took over. Now the steps will not work at all. Let it sit for about 3 weeks and have had very little battery drain and everything is good, except for the steps. It appears that the steps were in fact the power drain culprit. Will get under it in the spring and try to figure it all out.

Pubtym · 12-20-2006, 04:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by It's A Good Life!!:
WOW! I have a 2006 Adventurer 35A. The very first month we took her out, we woke up in the middle of a hot summer night to no AC. All our lights were dim. Turned on the generator, checked the shore power...no luck, even the refrigerator went out.

We were lucky to be able to start the engine, which of course lights, everything, etc started coming back to normal. Turned the engine off and everything went to crap again. Needless to say we had just arrived earlier that night for a four-day weekend. Unfortunately, we had to head back home at 5:00 a.m. and it was already getting hot as ****.

Long story short, we took it to our service department that afternoon and they suggested the converter be replaced. We did (a week later) and every thing worked great. Took it out three-weeks later arrived at night to a CG and before we even put the awing out it did it again!! Thought I was going to pass out...LOL.

This time I was not about to turn around and go home. Early the next morning (not as hot) contacted Winnebago and they had the service department tech come out to our CG. He noticed a faulty wire in the newly replaced converter (what are the chances of that!) so he had a converter picked up and delivered to our site and he replaced it.

I will forever remember the excellent customer service we received from Winnebago!!

It's been over eight-months since our black out and we've had no issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Converter is a sealed unit...hmmmmm. Factory specs say nothing to repair/service inside. Two Fuses (30 amp)are only serviceable items outside unit. I must note that when converter #2 went out...during simple troubleshooting again..I tapped/rapped on the top of the unit..and I heard something inside move...and it started up with the hmmmmm. Worked till I got it to factory. Factory consulted with Parallax and converter #3 was installed. So far...so good.

Honestly, I believe there is a defective series of these Parallax Converters installed in winnie 06 models and... when they do unknowingly fail...they take out the house batts by allowing them to drain lowerer than the point of possible full recovery.