EMS Problem

PHESPE · 07-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Having a EMS problem. First, the basics: MH is a 2005 Journey 39F plugged into a 50Amp service. Everything works as it should - that is the AC runs on both compressors, Water Heater works on electric as does the Microwave, frig, etc. There is 240vac available on both sides of the transfer switch, there are no circuit breakers tripped and they all have been reset many times.

Now the problem - the EMS system indicates that there is 30amp service available and the current draw is 1 to 2 amps. I have done a search and have read many posts and the few that appear to have this problem end with "taking to the dealer for warranty repair - or was fixed/replaced by the dealer under warranty.

It appears to me to be a problem with the detection of the 2 polls of the 240vac so it "thinks" that there is only one 120vac incoming line and the display of 1 to 2 amps load it the load on the neutral (what is really how it measures the load)

Questions
(1) Where is the EMS control board/relays, etc. located? Not the display panel as I can see it so I know where it is.
(2) Any body know the cause of this incorrect reading? I assume it is because the EMS is only seeing one poll of the 240vac incoming -but what's failing?

All help appreciated

PHESPE

PHESPE · 07-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Having a EMS problem. First, the basics: MH is a 2005 Journey 39F plugged into a 50Amp service. Everything works as it should - that is the AC runs on both compressors, Water Heater works on electric as does the Microwave, frig, etc. There is 240vac available on both sides of the transfer switch, there are no circuit breakers tripped and they all have been reset many times.

Now the problem - the EMS system indicates that there is 30amp service available and the current draw is 1 to 2 amps. I have done a search and have read many posts and the few that appear to have this problem end with "taking to the dealer for warranty repair - or was fixed/replaced by the dealer under warranty.

It appears to me to be a problem with the detection of the 2 polls of the 240vac so it "thinks" that there is only one 120vac incoming line and the display of 1 to 2 amps load it the load on the neutral (what is really how it measures the load)

Questions
(1) Where is the EMS control board/relays, etc. located? Not the display panel as I can see it so I know where it is.
(2) Any body know the cause of this incorrect reading? I assume it is because the EMS is only seeing one poll of the 240vac incoming -but what's failing?

All help appreciated

PHESPE

Dale Smith · 07-22-2006, 05:18 PM

Are you sure the 50 amp is 220V per side? I made the mistake of wiring the 30A outlet as 220v. I thought it was just like a house dryer recepticle. Blew up the inverter and was told common mistake - it is only 110V. If memory serves me, someone told me the 50 amp is 110 on each side but I am not an electrician.

Something to check out or maybe I can learn something as well.

tderonne · 07-22-2006, 05:19 PM

Sure it's not a problem with the power at the pole?

I don't think so as I think your're saying the current draw doesn't look right either?

Is there 30 amp service to try plugging and seeing what the amp draw reads then?

Flyer · 07-22-2006, 06:28 PM

Just got back from a Monaco service center with the same problem. The tech asked if all the breakers were on, and I said yes. He checked and found that the washer/dryer circiut was off (I don't have one installed). He reset the breaker and everything now works fine. May be your issue, too.

John_Canfield · 07-22-2006, 06:36 PM

A few months ago I was at a park that had a 50 amp receptacle and the EMS indicated we only had 30 amp service. The park pedestal was wired wrong - don't freak out until you try another park's 50 amp service.

gunny · 07-22-2006, 07:12 PM

EMS controller should be found inside your AC breaker panel. That is where it is on our '03 Journey. Can't think of a reason they'd move it from there.

You should have a manual for that device in the pile of books that came with your MH. It's only a few pages and covers some diagnostics. If you are handy, comfortable working with electricity and have a meter that will read both AC and DC. Have at it. If you need a new control board, suggest you talk to Master Techs, good folks, good pricing. If it's the control board and I hope its not, look to spend about $200.00 for one.

http://www.mastertech-inc.com/

Be careful around AC.

Steve St · 07-23-2006, 03:50 AM

I had the same problem. Thee are 2 pins #4 and #6 on the top board in the breaker box. That should measure 240 as mine did. The board on mine was bad. Called the factory and they sent me one under warranty with a RMA to return the defective one. Works like a charm now.

Steve

AdrianLee · 07-23-2006, 04:10 AM

PHESPE

Take your meter and test across the 2 hot legs - these are the 2 verticle holes on the power pole. The readinhg should be 240v. Now measure from the common - that's the round hole in the center near the bottom or the recepticle - across to one of the hot legs. It should be 110v. Then measure across the common and the other hot leg. It too should be 110v. If these readings are there, there is nothing wrong with the 50amp service on the pole.

Wiring inside of the RV keeps the 2 hot legs segregated to 2 - 110v legs.

If these are correct and all of your 110v breakers are on, then the EMS control board is bad. Call Powerline and they will tell you what to do.

If it is a 30amp service, ont of the angled flat holes will be dead. There will be 110v across the other one and the common.

mrschwarz · 07-23-2006, 04:58 AM

One other thing to check. If you measure accross both hot legs and don't show any voltage, but when you measure from each hot leg to the neutral you get 120 volts, the plug was wired wrong.

If the EMS is limiting you to 30 amps, it's a good thing. If you pulled 50 amps from both legs, in this configuration, the neutral would pull 100 amps and overload the wiring, creating a safety hazard.

AdrianLee · 07-23-2006, 06:34 AM

michael - thanks for adding that. I meant to put it in my post - it was in my head - it just did not make it out through my fingers.

You are absolutely right.

PHESPE · 07-23-2006, 08:31 AM

My sincerer thanks to all whom had suggestions advice etc., providing me with many possible causes, even those that were not possible solutions.

Thanks Gunny and St.Germain, it appears that you read my post - unlike others who suggested it is a problem with the supply, 240vac. I don't know how I could have made it more clear since I said "There is 240vac available on both sides of the transfer switch, there are no circuit breakers tripped and they all have been reset many times." And "the AC runs on both compressors".

The board is just where Gunny said it should be – thanks for the pointer. I agree that the problem is most likely the "Board" but does anyone know where the contactors (relays) that actually remove devices from the line if "shedding" is necessary when on 30amps service? They do not appear to be in the breaker box.

ON EDIT - it appears that the 2 small relays on the controp board are the "sheading" relays.

Tderonne said "... I think your're saying the current draw doesn't look right either?..."

Actually, the current draw does look right: "the display of 1 to 2 amps load "it" [should have been is] is the load on the neutral (what is really how it measures the load)" If 240vac is in use by both AC compressors running, then the current in the neutral will be the amp draw difference between the 2 legs of the 240vac. If Leg "L1" is drawing 13amps and Leg"L2" is drawing 11amps the difference would be 2 amps – just is being shown. When the EMS is working correctly, the display of the current draw is turned off when on 50amp service because current in the neutral leg will not be the current being drawn.

Again thanks to all for their suggestions and information.

PHESPE

Tom N · 07-23-2006, 02:12 PM

PHESPE;

I'm currently having the exact same problem.

I'm parked on a leased lot and I was parked on this lot last year. This is all new construction and all wiring was done by the electric company. I have my own electric meter.

Last weekend my EMS panel started to show I was connected to 30amp. I downloaded Intelittec's Installation and Service Manual from their website and got my meter out and checked some voltages.

The AC and everything else seems to be working fine. When I start the generator the EMS indicates GEN.

First, I went out and checked for two good 120v lines at the 50amp plug. This was OK. Secondly, I checked all connections at the rear of the EMS panel. All was OK. I pulled the breaker panel cover off and checked the 12v fuse on the EMS Control Module as the manual suggested. That was OK. I then checked for 220v between J4 pin 4 (L1) and J4 pin 6 (L2) on the 120v side of the Control Module that was OK.

I came home Sunday and emailed Intellitec support. Monday I received the reply below.

Hello,

Make sure that ALL of your circuit breakers are on. Next, check for 240VAC at the Powerline circuit board, which is located in the main breaker box. Measure between terminals 4 & 6 of J4 (6 position terminal block).

Here is the service manual, see page 15:
http://www.intellitec.com/PDF/5300911000.pdf

If Powerline fails, it will not damage your coach. The worst case is that the main circuit breaker may trip on 20A or 30A service.

Since lethal voltages are present inside the main breaker box, I recommend taking your coach to a qualified RV technician.

Thanks,

Michael Bendera
Field Service
Intellitec Products LLC
www.intellitec.com

I had already done the requested checks but this weekend I did them again. Same results, all OK. I suspect my Control Module, inside the circuit breaker box, is bad. The 120v circuit breaker box, the control module in the box and the wall mounted EMS panel come as a unit from Intellitec and Winnebago installs these in their coaches.

Today I emailed Intellitec again and will post their reply to this subject thread.

PHESPE · 07-23-2006, 02:52 PM

Tom N, You describe my problem exactly.

I look forward to whatever Intellitec offers as advice. If it is "Replace the Board" do you know what is their warranty on the board? If it is one year, I've missed it by one month. If it is 90 days (not unlikely for electronic items) I guess it will be out of my pocket to replace the board.

Thanks for your post and let us (ME) know what they say.

PHESPE

Tom N · 07-23-2006, 03:27 PM

My coach is 18 months old. I hope it carries a 2 year warranty the same as most other systems.

Steve St · 07-23-2006, 04:48 PM

There are actually 2 boards there and one is piggybacked to the other. The top has the shedding relays and has a 6 screw connector. The bottom board is the logis circuits. I'm sure you'll find the same problem as mine. There were some SMT resistors that overheated and they kinda just fell off when I touched them.

Steve St · 07-23-2006, 04:54 PM

I also called them and they said if you have the 240 on those pins 4 and 6 the module was bad. Mine was out of warranty by a month and I told them my coach was purchased new 11 months ago and they didn't even question it. Sent a new board under warranty and sent an RMA # to return bad.Call them in the morning and ask for a replacement.

Tom N · 07-25-2006, 06:15 AM

I did more voltage checks over the weekend and email the results to Intellitec. Below is the reply I received yesterday.

Hello,

The EMS control module has failed, it must be replaced.
What year is your coach?

Thanks,

Michael Bendera
Field Service
Intellitec Products LLC
www.intellitec.com

I just called Intellitec and all tech support people were busy so left a message for them to call me back.

Tom

Tom N · 07-25-2006, 12:11 PM

Intellitec is going to send me a new EMS control module. They requested that I return the old one with in 30 days.

I'm showing 248v between the legs. This is 124v on each leg. I'm wondering if this voltage is too high. If so I can have the electric company come in and check the transformer. I actually have a transformer on my campground lot. This is all new construction completed in the Spring of 2005 and they have 3 or 4 square transformers boxes for 14 50amp sites.

Does anyone know if 124v/248v AC is too high??? I don't think it is.

Here is a photo of the transformer with my coach in the background.

PHESPE · 07-26-2006, 02:15 PM

Tom N thanks for taking the lead on this.

I just talked to Intellich and they indicated they will replace my defective board if I return it to them. They gave me a RA so it will be in the mail tomorrow morning.

PHESPE