Electrical short

[mikemakay]

Thanks again to all for the support and suggestions. Again I will post results of the generator test.

[Morich]

Sounds good. I've done enough electrical to have seen some odd things and I've been trained and trained others to the extent that I know it sounds totally paranoid but then the other option is to walk past a problem because it sounds really small and just a tingle.
The cord problem might be the total problem but if it was an internal wiring issue in the RV, something like a wire rubbing on metal at some point, it could gradually wear more and then suddenly make a really good full contact so that when you walked out the door and standing on wet ground, it could be really bad. My group had an installer killed when he knocked on a mobile home door that was energized!
Big accidents like airplane crashes are mostly not the result of one big failure but often a series of small events that get missed until lead up to big crashes.
I like to hunt down those potential small bugs if we can.
Nice to discuss things with folks like you who do take some time and give the problem some thought.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

The cord problem might be the total problem but if it was an internal wiring issue in the RV, something like a wire rubbing on metal at some point, it could gradually wear more and then suddenly make a really good full contact so that when you walked out the door and standing on wet ground, it could be really bad. My group had an installer killed when he knocked on a mobile home door that was energized!

That possibility was why I was concerned when we only knew about the open ground. Again though, when I first suggested testing the outlet I was more suspecting a reversed load/neutral, but also the reason to suggest that was with electrical issues you should start at the source and then work downstream.

Here's another idea though. On the shore power attach a three to two prong adapter to easily open the ground again and see if the current returns. I would just do that for the short period of testing and with no high draw devices turned on.

[BobC]

All the more reason to have a surge protector that also protects against incorrectly wired shore power receptacles. At the very least we should use a simple plug-in analyzer before hooking up.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by BobC

All the more reason to have a surge protector that also protects against incorrectly wired shore power receptacles. At the very least we should use a simple plug-in analyzer before hooking up.

I don't think surge protectors protect against improper wiring, although they might have an indicator light of some sort. They protect against overcurrent. But yes, a plug-in analyzer would.

[HotMech]

You have an open ground circuit between the rv and the source of power. ie the breaker box. Period. Its an open ground, not neutral, ground. Kerry

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I don't think surge protectors protect against improper wiring, although they might have an indicator light of some sort. They protect against overcurrent. But yes, a plug-in analyzer would.

Mine does:

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

"EMS-HW30C
Hardwired EMS-HW30C RV Surge & Electrical Protector

​Electrical Management System (EMS) helps to protect your RV against voltage fluctuations, power surges and incorrectly wired shore power which can cause severe and costly damage to RV appliances and electronics. Feel secure with multi-mode surge, voltage, polarity and lost/open neutral protection. Each unit includes a digital display scrolling continuously through the power source information. A state-of-the-art microprocessor provides peace of mind, day or night, even when you're away from your RV."

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by HotMech

You have an open ground circuit between the rv and the source of power. ie the breaker box. Period. Its an open ground, not neutral, ground. Kerry

I'm not even sure what you're talking about. It would be nice if you would quote whatever it is you're responding to so that it would make a bit of sense.

The vehicle should have both a neutral and a ground, they are not synonymous.

Having an open ground means the ground wire is disconnected--that there is no ground.

[Jakm]

Short story of years long ago. Was dispatched to put phone service into an older mobile home being setup next to a house. As I was surveyIng the situation, checking the existing wiring under the trailer, I knelt down on one knee while balancing myself with one hand on the trailer. And there was the tingle the OP spoke of. Further investigation revealed a 3 conductor extension cord feeding the trailer, plugged into one of the little brown 2 conductor light cords coming out of the house window plugged into a receptacle inside. I think Goodspike hit the nail on the head as the OP verified.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I'm not even sure what you're talking about. It would be nice if you would quote whatever it is you're responding to so that it would make a bit of sense.

The vehicle should have both a neutral and a ground, they are not synonymous.

Having an open ground means the ground wire is disconnected--that there is no ground.

I am just now jumping into this thread.

Without reading all of the other posts, have you verified that you have a ground connected at the pedestal? I do this by measuring the voltage between one of the hot leads ports on the outlet to the ground port AND then to the neutral port. Also, I measure for voltage between the ground and the neutral. These are made common at the supply service panel.
If this is good, I then go to the ATS box. This is a very common failure point. Before doing any testing here, shut off the pedestal breaker and the generator breaker. Open the ATS box and check the tightness of all the connections. Once that is complete close the breakers and test the ground and neutral as above.
If the above testing is without problems shut the breakers off again and open up the coach service panel. At this point you must make certain that your inverter is off, assuming you have one. The service panel should be dead. Check all of the connections with it for tightness.
By doing all of the above steps you will have completed the routine I do on my coach when I first get it and then again in about a year. Then again is 5 or so years. Out of the factory it is common to find loose connections.
On my power cord plug, I polish it with a fine sandpaper or emery and then coat the contacts with No-Ox such as this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-No...-202276207-_-N
PS: You should NEVER find voltage on the frame of the chassis to ground.

Happy trails,
Rick

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by mikemakay

Again I will post results of the generator test.

Have you run it yet?

[RTrider]

I'm not sure what might have been running in the MH, but certain items, especially transformers, motors and that kind of thing can create an induced voltage. I worked on commercial refrigerated food equipment and if the ground was left open, it would do exactly what was described at the start of the thread. We would lean on the a machine and get a tingle. I never tried to measure the voltage, but it always mean we hadn't connected the ground. This was done in a test lab and we had spring clamp connectors because we were moving equipment in and out constantly and the equipment was hardwired when installed in a restaurant.

[mikemakay]

The open ground was the answer and was repaired immediately. Thanks to all who helped me find the solution. You saved my father's day trip.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by mikemakay

The open ground was the answer and was repaired immediately. Thanks to all who helped me find the solution. You saved my father's day trip.

Great, but no issues with running on generator? Just curious.

[mikemakay]

Sorry, I know I said I would post a result after testing the generator but I got busy with kids and fathers day and have yet to test that. I don't want to bother people right now with the noise of the generator so I with test when I can and post the results. I am monitoring the electrical to be sure I don't have the same problem while plugged into shore power.
Thanks for the concern

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Great, but no issues with running on generator? Just curious.

Your comments are well appreciated. I recall finding the same problem.


Generators in RV's, to my experience, are isolated. The ground and neutral are not common and the inverter type generator is usually wired for two in phase 120VAC legs. This gives you a 0VAC potential between L1 & L2 when on gen power. For the open ground problem the OP had??? Not worth spit.


Happy and safe trails.
Rick