Electrical gremlins

playdirt · 02-12-2012, 01:14 PM

Have a 2006 8.1 Adventurer.Spend most of our time dry camping.Sometimes when using interior lights they are very dim.Check the voltage at power center & the coach batteries will read 10.0 or less (their brand new).Fire up the generator,makes no difference.Turn off generator start up engine & every thing starts working fine.Shut off motor check power center,batteries now o.k. & everything is fine until it happens again.It might go the whole weekend working or it could happen the next morning.I've read about the crummy converters they come with can this be it ? Thanks

skigramp · 02-12-2012, 04:55 PM

Here is a post that I have found to be very informative ... in particular the table showing the state of batteries in terms of the voltage ...

12 Volt RV stuff

Is it possible that you have a bad cell in one of your batteries or they are "dated"?

Several years ago I bought "new" coach batteries ... I did not pay attention to the date of manufacture ... and all three had been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse for about a year ... they would not hold a charge ... they were replaced under warranty.

KIX · 02-12-2012, 05:15 PM

My guess is that you have a defective solenoid. I think it's the one that is energized when you activate the battery boost switch. You could jumper the two large terminals when the situation exists to verify. If jumpering corrects the issue then the solenoid activation coil is defective.

movin-on · 02-12-2012, 05:15 PM

When it happens check the 12v output of the converter with a meter....That would be a good start....

rjdelapp · 02-12-2012, 06:06 PM

I believe dry camping is without converter power. I agree with Kix that it could be the contacts are dirty or weak coil in the battery cut off solenoid. I think a bad cell in coach battery would stay bad and not come back to life. Could be bad battery connection or ground. Next time it happens use a heavy jumper wire to jump across solenoids and battery cables till you get bright lights. Good luck.

movin-on · 02-12-2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjdelapp

I believe dry camping is without converter power. I agree with Kix that it could be the contacts are dirty or weak coil in the battery cut off solenoid. I think a bad cell in coach battery would stay bad and not come back to life. Could be bad battery connection or ground. Next time it happens use a heavy jumper wire to jump across solenoids and battery cables till you get bright lights. Good luck.

When the generator is running the converter should be charging the batteries....

hdmoxness · 02-13-2012, 07:55 AM

Getting back to the OP, “dry camping” implies no shore power and use of the genset maybe daily or as necessary. Coach batteries should be watched and not be let to get down to 10 volts. The rate at which the batteries lose voltage when not being charged by the genset or engine is determined by the loads you are using and the time used; this takes personal monitoring. Since running the engine is supplying good charging voltage (should be around 14 volts) to the batteries and 12 volt system, the battery mode solenoid (bridging solenoid) is okay. Since running the genset does not bring the 12 volt system up to normal voltage, the converter seems the likely suspect to me. I don’t think the converter in an ’06 Adventurer is a “crummy” one, but this one needs connection checks, metered voltage checks, and repair or replacement if output proves faulty after checks are complete.

Be careful not to confuse the battery disconnect relay with the battery mode solenoid, which are located right next to each other in the Adventurer, under the top entry step, I thiink. As far as I can tell, the BD relay is closed, since the 12 volt system is powered up from the batteries, regardless of voltage.

Hope this helps.

Dave78Chief · 02-13-2012, 08:27 AM

You said that when boondocking (no shore power, gen and engine off),
1) Lights dim and both power center and battery (using seperate meter) reads 10VDC
2) Fire up generator and no change. Note: Generator starting current is on output side of battery disconnect relay. Generator would not start if there was a bad connection on input to battery disconnect relay.
3) Turn off generator, start engine and everything works correctly. You did not say you charged the battery with engine, just that it all started working correctly.

My guess is that either you have a bad battery cable connection between disconnect relay and fuse panel in BD relay / aux relay chassis box. Many times the crimped conection may look OK on the outside but is corroded on the inside. Engine vibration is causing the connection to make contact.

Dave

Please note that you need to provide the coach model number so the correct wiring diagrams can be referenced.

movin-on · 02-13-2012, 11:14 AM

I still think a good starting point would be checking the input and output of the converter...Plug into shore power and see what your readings are at the converter...Then unplug and start the genny and see what your readings are...If no output from either then the converter is the suspect...Check breakers on the converter....If you have voltage from one and not the other (genny or shore power) you could have a sticking relay in the transfer switch...

wa8yxm · 02-14-2012, 07:52 AM

Had a very simular issue myself Sunday night.. Fixed it Monday morning. That said I doubt you have the same problem.

My problem: Converter had become unplugged, The Fix, Plug it back in, ALL the way.

I suspect your converter.. Now, that said, converters fall into three groups for this discussion.

one is a low cost older single stage type. I don't think you have one, but if you do, UPGRADE.

What I think you have is a 3-stage "Smart" converter. By 2006 these were fairly common and well, they are way better. THEY are divided into two groups.

Mine... Will try to charge a battery that is DEAD with all capitals, Even if the battery voltage is in the 8-9 range it will try to charge,, and if the batteries are deep cycle (Whcih they are) it will succed in all likelyhood. (Starting and marine/deep cycle, Not nearly as likely to recover from that deep a discharge).

The even smarter ones won't try and charge a battery that low, they will see it as a dead short and refuse to overload themselves... (Actually I'm not sure if they are "Smarter" or not, Mine limits it's current so it won't overload itself in the case of a short)

I have designed short proof power supplies myself,, Kind of neat, If you short 'em the voltage goes to zero, but the fuse does not blow,, Remove the short and they pop right back.

I would load test the batteries.. If you have a shorted cell they will fail.

Remember if you have SIX VOLT pairs (That is two six volt batteries in series making one big 12 volt battery) remember the "Making one 12 volt battery" part, and replace them BOTH at the same time.

If you have multiple pairs.. Well, it's up to you if you want to replace all of them, but do replace both batteries in the bad pair.

movin-on · 02-14-2012, 05:57 PM

If you had a bad cell in one of your batteries, your converter would be constantly trying to bring that battery up to the level of the others...The result would be constant 14v or better and boiling of the electrolyte...

playdirt · 02-20-2012, 08:23 PM

Thank you for the replies.I took it to dealer to have some recall work done so I had them look at it.They said 1 battery is for the house & is dead.The other battery is for the inverter & is at 9.4 volts.They also state both batteries should be tied together.If they are to be tied together how does one operate the house & the other the inverter ?They also want to replace the converter with a Paralax 7400.I'm probably going to bring it back so I can take my "new" batteries back.I always keep them charged while parked. Then I'll pull out my meter out & go to work.Any opinions on the Paralax ? Thanks again

Dave78Chief · 02-21-2012, 07:13 AM

1) Parallax (Parallax Power Supply) is the new name for Magnetek.

2) The original converters used on the Adventure (Winnebago P/N 123058-xx-000; pdf page 79 of http://www.winnebagoind.com/resource...go_Catalog.pdf) were already the Parallax/Magnetek 7400 Series converter (Electronic Switch-Mode Power Converters). So, they are only recommending you replace the converter with what you already have. A base 7400 Series is only a single stage charger. The "T" model is 2 stage (bulk & normal; http://www.parallaxpower.com/7400/74...ctbrochure.pdf). Neither version is as good as a modern 3 stage charger which is what you really need.

3) Normal RV battery setup is to have a chassis battery bank and a single house battery bank. The inverter and all coach operations are connected to the coach battery bank. They do not use a seperate battery bank just for the inverter. The Adventure had a 800 watt inverter option which was primarrily intended for entertainment support (TV). Was a larger inverter installed and the wiring changed.

4) If you are going to do a lot of boondocking then you need to step back and really assess what you have and what your real need will be. From there, you can decide on the best way to upgrade your system

5) In order to really answer some of your questions, you need to identify exactly what Adventure model you have. THere are several versions and the wiring is different for each. Trying to approach this from a generic stance will most likely only result in unsatisfactory results. Launch pad for things such as wiring/plumbing diagrams and parts information is here: Manuals & Diagrams
My comments, though somewhat generic, are based on what I found there. To be more specific I, or anyone else for that matter, have to know more about what your actual rig is.

Dave

jlyon69 · 02-21-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playdirt

Any opinions on the Paralax ? Thanks again

Junk. Get a multi-stage charger such as the Progressive Dynamics 9200 Series. PD 9260C 60 Amp RV Converter/Charger You and your batteries will be much happier!

krautkamper · 02-21-2012, 10:08 AM

Definately don't bother putting the Parallax back in. Replace it with the PD or an IOTA. Lot's of good info on this site as to why. Also look at www.bestconverter.com.