EC-30 Firmware update needed

[jerichorick]

I thought my EC-30 was not functioning correctly. It is working as designed I have found out. The design of the firmware is flawed.

We know that the generator should not be stopped without a 10 min cool down. The owners manual stated this. However, when the Auto Start fires up the generator because of a loss of shore power and the call of the HVAC or need for a battery charge, as soon as the shore power returns the generator stops. No cool down. Under load. Shutdown.
The firmware update of 3.15 is supposed to have a fix for this problem. Where do I get this update and how?
Several years ago I was to the Forest City rally. Onan had a trailer. They updated my EC-30 to ver 2.12. So I know updates can be done. I haven't been able to find a location since to do updates.

Any help here is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[creativepart]

I’ve been told only Onan can do the updating. When I asked about this I was told on another forum that Onan said to remove the EC30 and send it to them. They would update the device and return it to you. However, they would not estimate how long you would be without the controller.

You’d think any Cummins Onan repair shop could do this task quickly, but I’ve never seen anyone suggest it was possible.

[jerichorick]

Here is what I found on irv2:https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/if-...-a-299220.html
Just what the doctor ordered. I think it would be a good idea for all of us to update the firmware of our EC-30's Many years of fixes have gone into the development of it. I'm going to contact Grover Simpson on Tuesday.
Happy Memorial Day all!

[jerichorick]

In the thread I linked one post states the phone # is wrong.
I verified the correct phone # is 574-262-4611.

[pubtime]

I had to update mine when I noticed problems with my autostart while driving to Gulf Shores in January. I carried my controller to Cummins Onan in Mobile, Alabama and was told that I had to bring the entire coach in, but that wasn't going to happen. I called around and found Grover Simpson's name online as the Cummins Onan person to contact for this update.



I contacted Grover Simpson ([email protected]) who arranged that I send the controller to someone in Minneapolis, MN for the update. I don't remember the lady's name, but I sent my controller to her after being told to do so by Mr. Simpson and received it back in about 3 weeks time. Works fine with the latest firmware installed.


You can call him at 574-262-4611, or email him at [email protected] . He was pleasant, helpful and quick to respond to my email request for service and get my EC 30 updated.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by pubtime

I had to update mine when I noticed problems with my autostart while driving to Gulf Shores in January. I carried my controller to Cummins Onan in Mobile, Alabama and was told that I had to bring the entire coach in, but that wasn't going to happen. I called around and found Grover Simpson's name online as the Cummins Onan person to contact for this update.



I contacted Grover Simpson ([email protected]) who arranged that I send the controller to someone in Minneapolis, MN for the update. I don't remember the lady's name, but I sent my controller to her after being told to do so by Mr. Simpson and received it back in about 3 weeks time. Works fine with the latest firmware installed.


You can call him at 574-262-4611, or email him at [email protected] . He was pleasant, helpful and quick to respond to my email request for service and get my EC 30 updated.

Thanks for this information. I have called several times and left messages but have not had a response. This morning I sent him a email. This option was made possible because of your information. We'll see what happens now.

[jerichorick]

I could only reach Cummins-Onan support through their website. It took a couple of weeks to get a response.
William Bundy, Cummins Care-Level 2, advised me to send the EC-30 to:
Noe Navarrete
Sales Technician
5125 Beck Dr.
Elkhart, IN 46516
I'll drop it off at the USPS tomorrow. I can manually start the generator with the remote disconnected.
Will fill you all in with the results of the update. I hope the short cycling of the A/C is fixed with this update.
Rick

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I hope the short cycling of the A/C is fixed with this update.

Humm? I can't imagine how the software of the EC30 will have any effect on the A/C on your motorhome. But hey, one can always hope.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Humm? I can't imagine how the software of the EC30 will have any effect on the A/C on your motorhome. But hey, one can always hope.

I can see impact of EC-30 to AC, but I am not sure I follow the short cycling issue? I further would love to know the new version # of date. There are a few things I wished were fixed or updated. I have Version 4.00 R6

Here is my guess of what OP may be referring to.

If EC-30 is used and in Auto On or in available Quiet Time modes, the Thermostat(s) will call the EC-30 when the AC compressor needs to engage to get power.

I think OP is saying that when temp is reached and the compressor can shut off, the EC-30 turns off the genny; and this cycle is too frequent?

If what I assume is true, that should be fixable today using minimum run time for genny. I need to check mine. I think my min runtime is 10 minutes.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Humm? I can't imagine how the software of the EC30 will have any effect on the A/C on your motorhome. But hey, one can always hope.

I laid this out in another post. Glad to repost.


My firmware version is 2.12. It does not account for the source of line voltage power to the EC-30. Here is what is happening when the EC-30 is in Auto Start:
When shore power is lost, the EC-30 detects this loss of power on pin # 13 & 14. Pins 13 & 14 are the detection leads from the transformer located in the coach service panel. The controller requires 12-16V AC or DC to satisfy the shore power on status.
I have always had a A/C short cycle problem when we dry dock or have a power outage. Dry docking meant running the generator manually if needed. When power is lost for longer than the system requirements I have to run the generator manually. If the inverter is charging, this seems to keep the short cycle in check.
Now understanding how the EC-30 knows power is present, it has no idea where the power is coming from. So, at the beginning of the Auto Start cycle the EC-30 sees no power, starts the generator, now sees power and starts the 10 minute cool down cycle, the A/C sees power and starts, the generator times out and stops, the Auto Start sees no power, restarts the generator and the dance goes on.
The latest update the the EC-30 has an option to choose the signal source for shore power. I will know better how to use this option when I have the update in hand. I understand some other features have been added to the firmware.

Hope this explanation clears up your questions.
Rick

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I laid this out in another post. Glad to repost.


My firmware version is 2.12. It does not account for the source of line voltage power to the EC-30. Here is what is happening when the EC-30 is in Auto Start:
When shore power is lost, the EC-30 detects this loss of power on pin # 13 & 14. Pins 13 & 14 are the detection leads from the transformer located in the coach service panel. The controller requires 12-16V AC or DC to satisfy the shore power on status.
I have always had a A/C short cycle problem when we dry dock or have a power outage. Dry docking meant running the generator manually if needed. When power is lost for longer than the system requirements I have to run the generator manually. If the inverter is charging, this seems to keep the short cycle in check.
Now understanding how the EC-30 knows power is present, it has no idea where the power is coming from. So, at the beginning of the Auto Start cycle the EC-30 sees no power, starts the generator, now sees power and starts the 10 minute cool down cycle, the A/C sees power and starts, the generator times out and stops, the Auto Start sees no power, restarts the generator and the dance goes on.
The latest update the the EC-30 has an option to choose the signal source for shore power. I will know better how to use this option when I have the update in hand. I understand some other features have been added to the firmware.

Hope this explanation clears up your questions.
Rick

For me this is clear For my EC-30 version posted above, I don't have this condition because I have my AC / DC Transformer wired in front of ATS. So my EC-30 always knows if I have true Shorepower or not

If my Genny knows I have shorepower; it will NOT auto start, or allow me to manually start the generator at the switches. Another subtle benefit not often used but kind of cool; say I am running AGS driving into a campsite. I leave every as is while I park to keep coach cool. When I do finish and connect to shorepower, the EC-30 will see and shut the genny off

There is one feature that I wish they would change within EC-30. At current the max AUTO START voltage setting is 12.5VDC. I don't under the limit. I have mine set at 12.5vdc but would like to have at 12.6vdc.
If it must be a limit why not 12.8vdc? It is no big deal, it is in my case, I would like to see my genny start sooner and keep my AGNS well above the 50% SOC.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

For me this is clear For my EC-30 version posted above, I don't have this condition because I have my AC / DC Transformer wired in front of ATS. So my EC-30 always knows if I have true Shorepower or not

If my Genny knows I have shorepower; it will NOT auto start, or allow me to manually start the generator at the switches. Another subtle benefit not often used but kind of cool; say I am running AGS driving into a campsite. I leave every as is while I park to keep coach cool. When I do finish and connect to shorepower, the EC-30 will see and shut the genny off

There is one feature that I wish they would change within EC-30. At current the max AUTO START voltage setting is 12.5VDC. I don't under the limit. I have mine set at 12.5vdc but would like to have at 12.6vdc.
If it must be a limit why not 12.8vdc? It is no big deal, it is in my case, I would like to see my genny start sooner and keep my AGNS well above the 50% SOC.

I like your wiring arraignment.

I'm questioning your resistance to Auto Start at a lower voltage? I think, in this case, MAX indicates minimum low voltage for your battery bank before the generator will Auto Start. Unless you charge with the generator most of the time your batteries are not in danger of unusual charging cycles. Your inverter options will be most important. Setting the generator to those parameters is a better way, IMHO.
Using the Auto Start when on the road is a great idea. I have done that on occasion but not enough to make it a habit. We have not traveled in hot weather all that much.
As far as upgrading the older versions of the EC-30 goes, the extra features I have read about in the users manual are nice to have available. I just don't recall what they are at the moment but I found them desirable at the time I read them.
Happy trails,
Rick

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I like your wiring arraignment.

I'm questioning your resistance to Auto Start at a lower voltage? I think, in this case, MAX indicates minimum low voltage for your battery bank before the generator will Auto Start. Unless you charge with the generator most of the time your batteries are not in danger of unusual charging cycles. Your inverter options will be most important. Setting the generator to those parameters is a better way, IMHO.


[dkoldman] It is not resistance it is no need. When coach was new the Auto Start setting was at 12.2vdc; I still did not have enough capacity with the OEM FLA NAPA batteries that I had. I hated those batteries and the watering more than anything in the world I dumped the working OEM batteries for two new AGM vMax tanks 125 ah/each. I can now go 2 days and never need a charge. Do I ever need to go two days? No.

What I have learned is that we like to run our generator, mainly for AC; so yes it is recharging few hours everyday anyway. But the gain is that the 50% state of charge for AGM is around 12.4 vdc per Onan manual. I have it set at the max 12.5vdc. Now ask me how many times does my genny start due to low voltage, and I will say rarely and in most all cases; negligence by me where I forgot to take my main fridge off the Inverter. I want to set at 12.6 vdc. But I can't because of the EC-30 constraint. I am never gonna use all of the available cycles for my AGMs, but keeping my batteries over the 50% SOC 100% of the time is my goal.



Using the Auto Start when on the road is a great idea. I have done that on occasion but not enough to make it a habit. We have not traveled in hot weather all that much.
As far as upgrading the older versions of the EC-30 goes, the extra features I have read about in the users manual are nice to have available. I just don't recall what they are at the moment but I found them desirable at the time I read them.
Happy trails,
Rick

In general my AGS is almost always on. When driving it prevents us from having to stop if we get too cold or too hot. The thermostat is set and it just does it thing. I had to learn to switch it back and forth with manual mode to avoid cutoffs with the ignition switch.

The 12.5vdc is working fine, but if I could; I would try it at 12.6vdc and that is the only change that stands out to me. Maybe I would make the Battery Empty Full 3 bar graph indicators optionally user definable?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

In general my AGS is almost always on. When driving it prevents us from having to stop if we get too cold or too hot. The thermostat is set and it just does it thing. I had to learn to switch it back and forth with manual mode to avoid cutoffs with the ignition switch.

The 12.5vdc is working fine, but if I could; I would try it at 12.6vdc and that is the only change that stands out to me. Maybe I would make the Battery Empty Full 3 bar graph indicators optionally user definable?

I have 6, 12V VMAX Tank batteries, 125AH ea. I have the inverter on all the time. In a 30A pedestal situation the inverter makes up for the different, to some extent, by supplementing power to the microwave/convection oven if needed or any other excess of 30A connected to the inverter.

Because of the number recharge cycles available I doubt I will ever exceed them. Most of the time the batter banks are at full charge. This, in its self, can be problematic. If we don't run the batteries down from time to time and get a heavy charge cycle they can build deposits on the plates and diminish the battery life. Even the AGM's are subject to this problem. We just can't win!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I have 6, 12V VMAX Tank batteries, 125AH ea. I have the inverter on all the time. In a 30A pedestal situation the inverter makes up for the different, to some extent, by supplementing power to the microwave/convection oven if needed or any other excess of 30A connected to the inverter.

Because of the number recharge cycles available I doubt I will ever exceed them. Most of the time the batter banks are at full charge. This, in its self, can be problematic. If we don't run the batteries down from time to time and get a heavy charge cycle they can build deposits on the plates and diminish the battery life. Even the AGM's are subject to this problem. We just can't win!

IMO; if you have 6 vMax Tanks 125ah; you are already winning. I studied this stuff ad nauseum. I got tired of hearing how to do, and how simple it was to add water, most folks couldn't associate that I simply did not want to do maintenance. Then those that half way tried; told me to buy Maintenance free FLA they too didn't grasp I was going from 65ah/battery to 125ah/battery. I don't need anyone to tell me what I learned; and that is replacing the 1 year NAPA FLAs with AGMs vMax tanks was by far the best $500 spent on the coach.

Our Inverter stays on too. I never worry about it. It gets a good workout overnight when the genny has to be off and no shorepower.

When I spoke with vMax they stated the batteries should NEVER go below 50% SOC. That is 12.4vdc per Onan Manual. Vmax suggest higher if possible. I set at 12.5vdc and it is non issue with generator cycling too much etc. So that is about 58% SOC.

I think Onan EC0-30 should allow me to set higher if I desired. 12.6vdc would be about 66% SOC and likely the max I would use? My point is not sure why Onan forces the cutoff at 12.5vdc?

FWIW, the above way I use my batteries is why I sometimes struggle with Lithium proponents who crow about a duty cycle going down to 10%? That statement linearly is a good thing, but in practice it would have no value for me because on heavy use day, I only need 30 - 35% of may available capacity. I am never intentionally going anywhere where I have to go 4 or 5 days with no shore power or generator.

My day with Lithium may come, but they will likely be in a coach that I bought that was designed for them.

[creativepart]

Here's the thing that happened to me with the EC30. I set the auto start voltage at 12.4v. But when I ran the microwave for 30 sec on inverter my 400 ah AGM battery bank would sag below 12.4v momentarily and the generator would start.

So, I changed that auto start to 12.1v and all was okay again.

Since then I have changed out my AGMs for LiFePO4 and it never sags when running the microwave any more. But then, I don't turn on the AGS any more either. If I did then certainly 12.5v or higher would work fine.

But, in general, I find the AGS function of the EC30 to be fairly arcane and difficult to figure out what it will do in every situation.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Here's the thing that happened to me with the EC30. I set the auto start voltage at 12.4v. But when I ran the microwave for 30 sec on inverter my 400 ah AGM battery bank would sag below 12.4v momentarily and the generator would start.

So, I changed that auto start to 12.1v and all was okay again.

Since then I have changed out my AGMs for LiFePO4 and it never sags when running the microwave any more. But then, I don't turn on the AGS any more either. If I did then certainly 12.5v or higher would work fine.

But, in general, I find the AGS function of the EC30 to be fairly arcane and difficult to figure out what it will do in every situation.

Agree the EC-30 programming has a lot of room for improving the interface. But once I got inside Cummins Engineering heads, it started to make sense.

I never have your situation because we always run Microwave with shore power or generator on. But lets say I did, you can change the Time @ Start Voltage from default (15 secs) to user defined of 5 - 60 secs. So in your case 40 secs may have done you good. But since you have Lithium may no longer need?

When it is set properly, it really is great. I have in Auto Mode all the time. My coach is always right temp and batteries well over 12.5vdc. I even have the Norcold joined in the fun, because I put my absorption fridge on an inverter circuit. So when EC-30 turns off the power it goes to propane and vice versa.

The only annoying thing is I had to put a UPS so main TV stays on Inverter ATS is switching, that works great, but as the moment my Roku box in entertainment cabinet still bounces

I was in Houston (Texas city) from last Wed to yesterday parked at Apartment complex with nothing but generator, cleared it with Security and Apartment Manager. AGS and both AC's was on Auto On the entire time & we made one trip to Galveston. I used $105 of gas in total. Gas was $3.39/gal at Sams After all of that, I still only have 275 hours total on genny after almost 4 years!!!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Here's the thing that happened to me with the EC30. I set the auto start voltage at 12.4v. But when I ran the microwave for 30 sec on inverter my 400 ah AGM battery bank would sag below 12.4v momentarily and the generator would start.

So, I changed that auto start to 12.1v and all was okay again.

Since then I have changed out my AGMs for LiFePO4 and it never sags when running the microwave any more. But then, I don't turn on the AGS any more either. If I did then certainly 12.5v or higher would work fine.

But, in general, I find the AGS function of the EC30 to be fairly arcane and difficult to figure out what it will do in every situation.

I have the same issue. I do believe my wire from the inverter is too small and is causing a voltage drop on the wire and not from the battery. I have just not had the motivation to engage in the wire upgrade. If we did more boon docking I would be more inspired to spend the time and money for the upgrade. As far as LiFePo4 goes? I don't have the desire to go through the upgrade. I almost did it with old Leaf packs but the 12V upgrade didn't work out. I didn't want to do all the conversions required for a 36 or 48V bank.