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Old 05-04-2023, 12:42 PM   #1
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Dimensions Inverter not allowing power transfer from SP to Generator

Hello,
Wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction. I have a 2004 Winnie Vectra 40, with a 2000W Dimensions Inverter. When I am connected to shore power, all systems operate as should, however when I disconnect and run on generator or alternator, then the inverter is not producing any wattage power, and drains the house batteries. Just drove 1200 km home from Victoria, MH was plugged in all winter, and no issues whatsoever with battery voltage and power output, so I started driving home and noticed the house battery getting weaker, usually the alternator system charged both chassis and house batteries when driving. Checked the inverter output in the power panel inside the coach, and it read there was no wattage output. I have read there is an automatic transfer switch, I have located it, and taken off the cover, but all the connections are tight, and there looks to be no arcing or burning of wires. Any ideas where to go from here, any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
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Old 05-04-2023, 02:24 PM   #2
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This needs a bit more checking as I "think" there may be some confusion. But that needs checking before I say it too loud!!

As I read it, your coach batteries go down while driving. Thaty should not be an inverter problem as it is not the part which charges the batteries but actually may help run them downif left on, as it will continue to use 12VDC battery to make AC fo anything using that like outlets, etc.

What the most common problem causing this is a solenoid which should connect the coach and chassis batteries together when we drive and that lets the RV engine alternator charge both chassis and coach as well as run anything using the batteries.

This drawing is the part which I suspect is the problem:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_147320.pdf

Sheet one, near the upper right side is where I got this snip. Click this drawing or go direct to get a better view of what I feel is happening.

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This solenoid is just like a switch except it operates electrically. It has two functions, one is to tie the two batteries sets togehr when we drive and the second function is to tie them together when we have a weak chassis battery as a way to "jump start" the engine!
ON/near the dash there will be a switch labeled different at different times (aux, boost, etc?) which operates this solenoid when we hold the dash switch OR it also should operate when we turn the engine on!

I feel it likely that this solenoid has burned/corroded contacts that are not connecting together! I marked chassis as green as it works but the coach in red as not getting the charge it needs as we drive!

Notice wire LR and MG on that solenoid? Those are the control wires that make the coil in the solenoid close the contacts. LR is 12vDC from the dash area and MG is the ground.

If you have a meter to test voltage, an easy way to test if this is happening (without digging to get to the solenoid!) is to watch the coach battery before you start the engine or push the dash switch. If it is low, when you start the engine, the low coach voltage "should" jump high like possibly 13volts or more as we rev the engine.
I suspect it will not do it and that is likely the problem???

This solenoid operates every time we start the engine and the contacts take a pretty good beating from arcing as they close. Over time they are too burned to work and we don't get the coach charged.

It "could" be the switch or the wiring from the dash to the solenoid but it is often the contacts burned. If you don't see the voltage jump, try standing near the place where the solenoid sets and listen as somebody pushes the dash switch. It is a pretty big solenoid and we can often hear ti "clunk" as it moves. It can move and still not make contact but if it is moving we can say the switch and wiring are good!

Do you know where there is a label that says something like "mode solenoid inside"?

I can do a search for the location but that may take a bit, if you already know where to find it. Often behind a batch of breakers and takes a bit to get into reach it.

EDIT:
Got a label like this?
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Old 05-04-2023, 03:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morich View Post
This needs a bit more checking as I "think" there may be some confusion. But that needs checking before I say it too loud!!

As I read it, your coach batteries go down while driving. Thaty should not be an inverter problem as it is not the part which charges the batteries but actually may help run them downif left on, as it will continue to use 12VDC battery to make AC fo anything using that like outlets, etc.

What the most common problem causing this is a solenoid which should connect the coach and chassis batteries together when we drive and that lets the RV engine alternator charge both chassis and coach as well as run anything using the batteries.

This drawing is the part which I suspect is the problem:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_147320.pdf

Sheet one, near the upper right side is where I got this snip. Click this drawing or go direct to get a better view of what I feel is happening.

Attachment 185863

This solenoid is just like a switch except it operates electrically. It has two functions, one is to tie the two batteries sets togehr when we drive and the second function is to tie them together when we have a weak chassis battery as a way to "jump start" the engine!
ON/near the dash there will be a switch labeled different at different times (aux, boost, etc?) which operates this solenoid when we hold the dash switch OR it also should operate when we turn the engine on!

I feel it likely that this solenoid has burned/corroded contacts that are not connecting together! I marked chassis as green as it works but the coach in red as not getting the charge it needs as we drive!

Notice wire LR and MG on that solenoid? Those are the control wires that make the coil in the solenoid close the contacts. LR is 12vDC from the dash area and MG is the ground.

If you have a meter to test voltage, an easy way to test if this is happening (without digging to get to the solenoid!) is to watch the coach battery before you start the engine or push the dash switch. If it is low, when you start the engine, the low coach voltage "should" jump high like possibly 13volts or more as we rev the engine.
I suspect it will not do it and that is likely the problem???

This solenoid operates every time we start the engine and the contacts take a pretty good beating from arcing as they close. Over time they are too burned to work and we don't get the coach charged.

It "could" be the switch or the wiring from the dash to the solenoid but it is often the contacts burned. If you don't see the voltage jump, try standing near the place where the solenoid sets and listen as somebody pushes the dash switch. It is a pretty big solenoid and we can often hear ti "clunk" as it moves. It can move and still not make contact but if it is moving we can say the switch and wiring are good!

Do you know where there is a label that says something like "mode solenoid inside"?

I can do a search for the location but that may take a bit, if you already know where to find it. Often behind a batch of breakers and takes a bit to get into reach it.

EDIT:
Got a label like this?
Attachment 185865
Hi Morich,
Thank you for your response, yes, the coach batteries run down while driving, I do have an aux switch on the dash, I will remove the cover in the power reel compartment, and have the dear wife press the switch while I listen for any contact noises. Question, if this is the issue, and to verify a correct part, my guess is to take a picture of it, and look for any numbers on the item in order to locate a replacement?
Cheers!
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Old 05-04-2023, 07:27 PM   #4
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Not necessay to take the pictures as these are a pretty common part and likely many dealers will have the part.
We have some really good online info from Winnebago that makes life much easier at times. One is the parts catalog here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...4/4wks40kd.pdf

Running through the index, we can find the elctrical parts and then drop down to page 146 where we find the solenoid listed with a part number!

Click this snip to see better!

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Part number 008188-02-000

So not to make you think I totally trust the drawings (or most anything) I find, We can go to Google and input the part number just by itself and get lots of hits on sellers and part of that will be pictures of the solenoid!
And it looks very much like what the drawings show as well as a number of RV posts about using this number, making me feel it is safe to go on shopping and try to find the best price/shipping, etc to fit me!

Now we can get into more confusion and questions as there are different names for the same part. Also some folks feel the Trombeta is a better part than the OEM, and that can lead into all kinds of personal choice.

I'll leave you to decide and do the shopping as I really have not had an RV with this particular solenoid to go bad!!!

My personal thoughts run like this. The one you have is likely nearly twenty years old, so how much do we want to sweat over a part that cost less than a $100 and lasts twenty years?
I like stuff that lasts but I'm okay with spending 80-100 twenty years from now--if I get a guarantee that I'll still be here???

Example?
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EDIT:
Also be aware that if you hear the solenoid click, there may be times when the real problem is NOT the contacts but if the battery cable from the solenoid to the batteries is corroded, it can be as simple as cleaning the cable! Don't get hung up on changing parts if a dirty cable is the killer!
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Old 05-05-2023, 05:25 AM   #5
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Hi Richard,
Thank you so much for the info, this gives me a great heads up to solve this issue. Question, does Winnebago usually install the shunts near the batteries, or near the inverter/power compartment? I will check the battery connections, start with the simple and work my way to the complex.
Cheers,
Frank
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Old 05-05-2023, 07:35 AM   #6
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This may not be your problem, but we have had multiple members with Dimensions Inverters, around the age of yours, report failures of the inverter’s charging section.

Unfortunately, when this happens there doesn’t seem to be a cost effective fix. It’s generally cheaper to simply replace the inverter than to find a repair shop that will handle it.

Magnum purchased Dimensions a number of years ago and no longer offers any support for those units.
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Old 05-05-2023, 08:02 AM   #7
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We may have a bit of difference in names? By shunt, do you mean the breakers or fuses?
That can vary a lot and I can't say they have any spot from one to the next, so we have to look at what they call "installation drawings".

This is the chassis 12 vdc installation drawings as they give the physical location of that part of the electrical, so we can spot where they put things!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_147311.pdf

If I am correct and you are looking for the breakers/ fuses/shunts, these drawings will help find those parts.
On sheet 2 I find these parts shown in detail. Also a different view of the solenoid and battery disconnect relay which is almost always just right of the solenoid just like as drawn. They do a good job of the drawings looking just like what we should see...

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This shows the breakers as being detail BD. So to find the location of those, we need to search the drawing of the whole RV for a note showing BD!
Ignore that bit at the bottom about bc-bc as it is a little sloppy in copy!!!

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So we go to sheet one and finally find detail BD at the drivers rear just about across from the batteries?

Sometimes it is a bit of hunt and peck to sort down to what we need. I did a lot of drawings study when working and I look at it like an Easter egg hunt at times!

But I also like to help you sort it for any futre problems.
Now the bigger question is whether that WAS what you wanted. I don't use "shunt" very often, so I may be confused!!

Another handy thing to know at times, is the way Winnebago labels their small wires.
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If we find a label on drawings or wires and want to know where it runs "from" and "to" as well as possibly an idea of function, we can go to this list to "decode" the label.
That's where I know what wire LR does!

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

So if you get into rewiring a new solenoid or testing the wires, you have three big cables with colored tape. Two purple tape go on big lug at left for coming from chassis battery, etc. One yellow on top right from coach battery.
Small wire LR is the control battery from the front and feeds power through the solenoid coil to meet MG which is ground! The little wires make the big wires do all the work! (slave relay?)

The battery disconnect relay is also a good one to know about as it is what does the work when we press the disconnect switch.
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Old 05-05-2023, 08:12 PM   #8
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I agree with Morich.. The inverter is out of the picture when genset is operating, only the charger function is working.
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Old 05-05-2023, 10:19 PM   #9
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Hi Morich,
Thank you so much for the wiring identifier, I have always wondered how to trace wires since they are all one colour. I ordered a solenoid from Winnie today, hopefully that will solve my issue. I also noticed the gen set light on the powerline management system does not light up when I run the generator, but when I hook up to SP the 30/20 amp led lights up, so that is operating normally, and shows a charging condition on the display. I had my dear wife click the battery boost switch, and I heard only a very quiet click, and was evidenced when I even put my hand on it, very slight vibration. Solenoids operate with a low amperage input to control a high amperage output, in my experience (I am a retired mechanics teacher) they make a louder noise when switching on and off (in the automotive paradigm).
I'll post my results when the item arrives, should be in about 2-3 weeks (I am located in Canada).
Cheers!
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Old 05-06-2023, 08:13 AM   #10
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One thing to always be aware of is how common corrosion can be on RV.
What I'm saying is that the solenoid does take a beating as the contacts open/close every time we start or stop the engine and that is a lot of arcing over the years.

But at the same time, if the cable from the solenoid to the batteries gets corroded at any point along the line, the result will look the same!
If the solenoid were out where we could check the voltage was getting to the cable there but find it not getting to the battery, we would be more prone to spot it.

But the solenoid is often hidden behind the breakers and we are less prone to checking for sure.
What I have seen happen in part time work on RV is that the repair folks get so used to finding the solenoids bad, that they just change them without really checking!
You take a solenoid off and put on a new one and it may work far better because they took the cables off the battery to make it safe to work and then they took them off at the solenoid to put in the new one!
YUP! If you take the cables off and put them back on a new one, it can just be dirty connections and the customer pays the price!

I try to be more careful when I do it at home!
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Old 05-06-2023, 10:26 AM   #11
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You may find this old thread helpful: Engine not charging house battery
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Old 05-23-2023, 04:11 PM   #12
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So, update, I changed the trombetta solenoid, and it is still the same issue, generator does not light up the powerline display, start up the coach, and the inverter does not show any output for both situations. Works as needed when plugged into shore power, 20/30 amp light works on the powerline monitor. The aux battery switch (inside the coach by the front door) works as it should, maybe I should be looking at the automatic transfer switch? Or time to get some professional service outlet to take a look at it, might be above my pay grade, LOL!
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Old 05-23-2023, 04:28 PM   #13
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Have you checked the circuit breaker on the Onan generator itself?

With your OP I never thought to ask this - but with your last post is sounds like the generator circuit breaker(s) have tripped. These are physically on the generator control panel - depending on the model Onan you have it could be under the generator cover or outside of the cover on the remote start panel.

If these circuits have tripped the gen will start and run, but you'll see no power. They can trip occasionally on their own from over loading. Or if you've taken your RV in for service, service techs are prone to flipping them to OFF and not remembering to turn them back on.

Here's one on a QD10,000 - but you'll get the picture when you look for it on your genset. Mine look less like an on and off switch and more like a standard AC circuit breaker - and I have two breakers, not one. I don't know what you have but it's easy to check.
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Old 05-23-2023, 04:46 PM   #14
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You're a genius, thank you, generator breaker switch was tripped, works now as it should. However, when I turn off the generator with the engine running, I get the same condition, the inverter ceases to operate, perhaps I need to look at the chassis battery connections!
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Old 05-23-2023, 05:12 PM   #15
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Maybe we need to make sure we are all speaking the sam ?
When plugged in or the genrator running, either should give 110AC power to things like the outlets and a handy place to check for AC is the microwave.
The inverter can be totally shut off and you should still have the AC power!
But there can be confusion when they give us an inverter/charger. so lets make sure we are not talking about turning off the inverter when we are really turning off the charging portion of an inverter charger???
The difference is the inverter needs DC to make the 110 AC as one part of a combined machine. Then there is the second section which uses AC to make DC to charge the batteries, so it is kind of the reverse!
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Old 05-23-2023, 06:37 PM   #16
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The automatic transfer switch can be damaged by operator error. The ATS should never be switched to a different power source when a high-draw appliance is running. It burns and pits the ATS contacts, and with repeated abuse, fails to function.
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Old 05-23-2023, 08:46 PM   #17
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There seems to be more confusion than needed, so I would suggest going down to the basics and testing each in turn to find what is failing.
If you are plugged into power, there should be no worry about the inverter makes AC using the DC power from the batteries. Check the microwave for being lit.
If you are not plugged into power and the generator is now feeding power, check that the light on the microwave is lit as an indicator that you are actually getting AC power.

If you have a lamp or something that needs the AC power, try it in several outlets to verify they are working. Be awre of any GFCI outlets and be sure they are rest if you find any outlets dead as one GFCI often feeds other outlets.
If the microwave and outlets are working, move on up to see if the AIR conditioner will cool as a last pretty heavy test of the AC power system.

Once you have those items all working, I wopuld then move into testing the DC power side of things as they are often the controls for things like the frig, thermostat, as well as the inside lights, vent fans, etc.
Keep track of what works and what fails as a way to limit the area that needs checked.

The only function of the solenoid is to connect the two battery groups together, either when we push a dash switch or when the engine is running.
But we do need to first know if the coach batteries are not getting charged or not holding that charge. Or it is possible they are good but there is a corroded/dirty /loose cable that doesn't let that power get to the 12VDC items we want to use like lights, fans,etc.
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Old 05-23-2023, 09:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectra2020 View Post
the inverter ceases to operate, perhaps I need to look at the chassis battery connections!
The inverter works off of the house batteries not the chassis battery.

I think all of us are confused about what exactly you mean about things. What are you trying to do with the inverter?
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Old 05-24-2023, 09:09 AM   #19
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Hello everyone,

Thank you everyone for your help, sorry about the confusion I have caused. My assumption is that the chassis and house batteries are charging when the coach is running?
The dash gauge shows a charge situation when running, and when I check the battery voltages at the powerline monitor panel, the chassis batteries always indicate full charge, yet the house batteries show a depletion.

Everything works as it should when plugged into shorepower, and now that I reset the generator breaker, the generator works as it should.
I remember this past winter at our site, I turned on the generator when we were plugged into shorepower, and the site breaker tripped, so I made sure whenever I started the generator or motor, I unplugged the shorepower accordingly.

One response has been that I might have damaged the ATS component, so I took off the cover to the Parrallax 5070, and checked to see if there are any loose connections or burned wires, and everything looks like it should.

I still have 120V power when using the house batteries while stopped, so I assume the inverter is still functioning the way it should. Going to camp this weekend, and will see how that goes at this point.

Thank you everyone for the help, sorry about not being clear enough, I really do appreciate this site, I have learned so much in the past three years from advice and comments from others.

Have a great day, and I will post next week if I have any solutions,
Cheers!
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Old 05-30-2023, 05:03 PM   #20
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Update from the weekend,
Coach performed flawlessly, issue has been resolved with the new trombetta solenoid. Everything works as it should, inverter, charger, alternator and generator.
My guess is I probably should look at getting the inverter changed to a pure sine, I still have the original Dimensions inverter charger. I have been looking at Magnum products, and not sure if I should get something with more output, or stay with something with roughly the same power ratings?
Hope you all have a great week,
Cheers!
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