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Old 05-27-2019, 08:24 AM   #61
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OK, I've been following all of your hard work to resolve this problem. I'm dealing with the same thing but, unfortunately, I have none or your expertise. I didn't realize that enjoying our new Navion would require an electrical engineering degree. I'm hoping a clear step by step lay person level solution will come out of either this forum or Winnebago (less likely).

So thank you for all your efforts. In the meantime, can you tell me which Trojan batteries you install and did you have to modify your battery box to accommodate them?
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:19 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
Correct me if I’m wrong but the issue is the elimination of propane on the RV, correct? Removing propane saved space in the design and necessitated the switch to 12v compressor fridge.

If that’s so then there is not much an owner can do if they want to use the RV for extended off grid camping - other than making modifications to their electrical charging and storage system.

An owner may not like this reality but is it really Winnebago’s “fault”? I don’t recall that RV been promoted as a boondocking specific RV. Many RVs are created that can’t boondock for extended periods without modification. It’s not really a design flaw on the manufacturer’s part.

Perhaps a buyer isn’t aware of that fact when they purchase the model, or the selling dealership is glossing over this fact (likely) when selling the model.
No, they did not put the compressor fridge in to make it an all elect rig. The 2018 View has a gas stovetop, 6 gallon gas water heater and a 13 gallon Propane tank.

Additionally the brochure goes on the state:
Quote:
The new compressor-driven
double door refrigerator keeps
things cool without depleting your
propane supply
Yea! Whoopty Doo. Kills your batteries, but at least you don't use as much propane. As if the fridge uses that much propane.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:23 PM   #63
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So a Fridge change is an option then? Not that anyone needs to have that expense. I just thought folks were stuck with no further alternative.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:35 PM   #64
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So a Fridge change is an option then? Not that anyone needs to have that expense. I just thought folks were stuck with no further alternative.
Take a look at the brochure. Elect fridge doesn't read as an option, just as standard equipment.
On top of that they only put in a pair of Group 24 batteries. A pair of 100watt solar panels are standard.
In 2018 it looks like a 1000watt inverter is an option. In 2019 it looks like it is standard.
With only a pair of Group 24 batteries you won't be able do much with a 1000watt inverter. I doubt the inverter will run the microwave, unless it is a really small microwave. Even then I believe you would be exceeding the recommended discharge amps from a group 24 battery pair.

Bunch of misleading marketing stuff to sell a product.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:39 PM   #65
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It is probably good to note that these smaller 24-26 foot Class C's lend themselves to occasional dry camping for a day to a week or so. Relatively easy to maneuver, small enough to easily get into NF and NP campgrounds.

Also a sales pitch would be "No need to be level like you need to be with a gas fridge." More marketing stuff to sell a product.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:45 PM   #66
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I know a couple of years ago a compressor fridge was seen, by some, as a plus. Because it cools better and faster. But it sounds like WBGO only half thought this through. That’s a shame.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:18 PM   #67
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Kayak73, can you tell me which Trojan batteries you installed? Thanks!
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:53 PM   #68
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Hey folks, I hope you realize that after 20 years of different RVs and driving all over the USA I am blaming myself for this purchase. As I've said many times, I knew better and the fridge made me walk several times. In the end the great floorplan and a little nudge made me bite but then, I'm not the only one. I'm just disappointed (almost) that WGO did the change so poorly and has handled the issue with no mercy or concern. I fondly remember the "old" days when I went to Forest City and was treated with great respect and a troublesome issue resolved out of warranty gratis.

Retrofit of a 3 way fridge is almost impossible, cheaper to trade the rig. I was thinking put in a better 12vdc fridge but that's really a dead end, this one works (even better than spec).

The 2018 V24D has LP for the Truma on demand HWH, the heater and the cooktop. The 6 gallon HWH is gone forever in this line, Tiffin as well in the Wayfarer. Tiffin so far has kept the LP fridge.
As far as batteries you will find WGO also modified the understep tray to hold small batteries, group 24 on my rig. On our 2006 View T-105s were a drop in fit, but just look and you will see. I didn't even try to fit T-105s in the hole but take careful measurements and decide what you want to tackle. On the series connect install you might go T-145. I bit the bullet as another poster here did and installed T-1275s in parallel - total of 300AH when new, 150AH to use before hitting the 50%SOC level. If you really want to go this route it is a chop mod with a sawzall of the battery tray, photos posted on this forum by Tucsontoy. It only hurts a little while, take a few shots of Knob Creek and it passes, chop-mod on a brand new rig might be scary to some. If you only want to dry camp a few nights, maybe two, the T-145 will be fine but will limit other use more stringently. In either case I like Trojans, any good golf cart shop can supply you. Spend a bit more money (double) if you want and put in Lifeline AGMs.


Traditionally, ie, from the first year View, it has been a boondocking rig. Massive group of View owners met in annual events and I think we all were boondockers. That has changed with the 2018 model. My solar harvest records from the past 6 days say that third panel will really help.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:34 PM   #69
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Summary of the long thread

For owners who might read this thread and wonder I want to summarize the results of the long study.


1. The converter/charger PD9245C would not ever charge the batteries when solar was ON, even in poor solar and low output the PD9245C saw voltage which kept it in maintenance, low float mode.


2. I added the remote pendant for the converter, $11 from Amazon. The pendant allows me to force the converter into BULK charge mode which allows me to run the generator a few hours AM and PM to get ready for the next night time run. Solar can fill in between the genny runs.



3. I added two 30amp switchable circuit breakers to the solar controller leads, one on the input ground and one on the output ground for service of batteries and to shut down solar when generator charging with the PD9245.


4. I detected no identifiable problem at all with the Norcold 12volt compressor refrigerator, it behaves better than specification.


5. Solar install will be redesigned later by installing 24volt rigid panels. I will install a MPPT controller near the front of the rig and use the existing 8ga wire for the higher voltage run from panels to controller and have short two foot runs to the batteries for solar charge. This will reduce almost completely the high voltage loss of original design since the 24 volt panels operate around 34-36volts.


6. LiFeP04 is highly desirable and probably will go in when I redo the solar. That will involve several other changes as well.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:31 AM   #70
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Glad to see you are planning on incorporating the recommendations I made back on post #52. Such as relocating the controller close to the batteries.

As you have noted, Winnebago should have designed the solar install for much more efficient operation.

But then again that has been the general consensus, since I first started reading about solar installs about 8-10 years ago. There are a lot of very poor solar and battery charging installations both from mfg & after market providers.

It behooves anyone contemplating upgrading their RV with additional batteries and/or solar to do their research and insist on proper wire size and location of components.

Here is a link to some great info about what to look for and what not to do when upgrading. He is rather wordy, but well worth reading.
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/t...ging-puzzle-2/
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:28 AM   #71
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Yes, relocating the controller near the batteries will reduce voltage loss in the OEM design. Some of the things in post #52, yes. I will not connect the solar panels in series however, that makes them more vulnerable to shading issues in output. They will still be in parallel but 24 volt panels, not 12 volt. During the testing I was able to see the dramatic voltage drop and the impact the Winnebago design had in charging the batteries. While the panels actually produce charging voltage and usable amps at low light and partial shade, the long run of 8ga wire dropped the voltage to make it almost worthless in some conditions. .3 - .5 far too much voltage drop. In the Winnebago design the solar panels simply provided enough to keep the batteries charged with the refrigerator off and in storage. Adding another panel to that poor design would simply have made the voltage drop WORSE. Replacing the PWM controller with a MPPT in the original design would simply be dumping more good cash into a black hole voltage drop.


Using the MPPT controller in the redesign allows the 24 volt panels operating at say 36 volts to be changed into 12vdc charging voltage at better amperage and the higher voltage across the same wire run will have minimal loss for the input.



One other thing I observed in testing is the solar controller will need a reset from time to time. In certain operation combinations there might be shore or generator power applied to the PD9245 before the solar controller turns ON in the AM. In that case even when you remove shore or generator (converter charging) the controller will NOT reset to charge mode. I documented that several times. The only fix using the ZAMP controller is to reset it. The reset is, in order, remove the PV NEG wire then the output NEG wire for around 30 seconds. Then reconnect - that is the real function of the switchable 30 amp circuit breakers. After reset the controller will enter charge mode (blue light indicates charge on the panel).




The thing is a good solar install is a great benefit and can even be the sole source of battery recharge in many cases while a poor install is nothing more than a diamond on a pigs snout.


The real BIG thing I learned which many may not still understand is the dual charging source and the impact on the little PD9245C converter/charger when dry camping/boondocking. That thought never crossed my mind, so simple a thing to overlook for the manufacturer. The PD9245 will never go into real charge mode - BULK- when it sees the battery voltage at 13.2 or more, anything over 12.7 and it goes directly into float. When dry camping the generator is OFF at night, so is solar. In the AM the panels turn ON the controller early with first light so it is charging. Then you start the generator to get that PD9245 to charge and it goes right into float, worthless design. This solar controller does sense the PD9245 (really battery voltage) and will NOT go into charge mode IFF the generator is running first, ie., PD9245 already on an charging. Unfortunately that does not happen in boondock mode.



The most effective thing was to add the switchable breakers to the solar NEG leads to shut down solar when a generator run to charge batteries is desired/necessary. Adding the remote pendant allows forcing the converter into BULK charge mode.


The OEM design simply does not push the charge into the big batteries effectively because the silly 25ft run of 8ga wire gives a large enough voltage drop in some cases to make it worthless, handicapping the potential.


I hope more design and engineering thought is going into the BOLDT at that price point.
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