charging w/gen and/or charger?

[Jupiter]

Our coach (05' Journey) is stored at a location w/o power. I try to drive it for about an hour every 3 or 4 weeks, but it's been over a month now and it's been very cold which translates into low battery charge. I'm trying to avoid pulling the chassis batteries to bring home for charging. My plan is to use the available battery charge to start the generator which will eventually charge the batteries. My understanding is the house batteries take the first charge and then when satisfied, the chassis batteries will be charged. Correct?

I was thinking about running the generator and also running a 12 volt charger (powered by gen. 110v.) to connect directly to the chassis batteries to expedite charging. Will this create a problem with any coach-side components such as trik-L-start or other charging systems? I certainly don't want to do this if there is potential for damage.

Appreciate any insight from the awesome panel of experts

Regards,
Joopy

[Clay L]

Originally Posted by Jupiter

Our coach (05' Journey) is stored at a location w/o power. I try to drive it for about an hour every 3 or 4 weeks, but it's been over a month now and it's been very cold which translates into low battery charge. I'm trying to avoid pulling the chassis batteries to bring home for charging. My plan is to use the available battery charge to start the generator which will eventually charge the batteries. My understanding is the house batteries take the first charge and then when satisfied, the chassis batteries will be charged. Correct?

I was thinking about running the generator and also running a 12 volt charger (powered by gen. 110v.) to connect directly to the chassis batteries to expedite charging. Will this create a problem with any coach-side components such as trik-L-start or other charging systems? I certainly don't want to do this if there is potential for damage.

Appreciate any insight from the awesome panel of experts

Regards,
Joopy

There may have been a couple of Winnebago models (Ultimate Advantage?) where the converter charged both the house and chassis batteries but as a rule the converter does not.

You might wedge something under the momentary AUX START switch on the dash. It activates a continuous duty solenoid that connects the house and engine batteries. That will allow both sets to be charged by the converter either from the generator or shore power.
Although the solenoid is continuous duty I wouldn't leave in on any longer than necessary.

[Conquest102]

The only problem I see with the 2 chargers one is going to turn off because it will sense the power of the other as a charge. Also this is not a fast process and will take up to several hours to get FULL charge.

[John Hilley]

Your plan to charge the chassis battery with a battery charger is a good one and will not conflict with the Trik-L-Start, it is no different than the alternator when driving down the road. It will charge your chassis battery much faster than the Trik-L-Start as the the Trik-L-Start will wait for the House Batteries to come up to charged before charging the Chassis Battery.

[motohomer]

if its only been a month or so, and the temp is over freezing when you try to start it, it should fire right up. Especially with the battery boost switch.
Also if you fire the genny, then hit the battery boost you will have the 14V from the charger on the chassis batteries & available.
You can always jump it if the batteries are truly dead.
Many options...

[FIRE UP]

Joopie,
A couple of things here. One, Not doubting you but, can you confirm you actually have a "Trik-L-Start"? The reason I ask is, Winne didn't start installing them at the factory 'till '06, after they recognized the fact that many coaches, '05 and earlier were experiencing dead chassis batteries after sitting for a short time, around 2-4 weeks, plus or minus. Or, did you install the Trik-L-Start yourself? Just wondering on that point.

Next, the Trik-L-Start is a very slow, "Trickle" charger. If your chassis batteries are dead or, seriously low enough to not crank that engine, it will take forever for the Trik-L-Start to bring them up. You'd have run your generator for a month straight in order for the TLS to bring them up enough to crank that diesel over. The Trik-L-Start does NOT wait 'till the house batteries are charged then, decide to start charging the chassis batteries. What it DOES do is, monitors the difference in voltage between the house batteries and the chassis batteries.

When it senses the chassis batteries are approximately 1/2 Volt lower than the house, it can then deliver UP TO (5) amps of charge into the chassis batteries. So you see, even at best case scenario, you're only going to get 5 amps max being put back into at least two, chassis batteries.

Your thoughts on plugging in an auxiliary charger to 110V outlet for charging the chassis batts is a good one if, the charger you use has a high output setting for bringing them up in the short amount of time you'd be running the gen.

And, if your '05 Journey is a Diesel, like I assume, unless you've installed one, you don't have a "converter", you have an INVERTER. And, if that's the case, which I'm pretty sure it is, it also depends on WHICH inverter you have. If by chance, you have what many of us Itasca drivers and Winne drivers have, it's the "Dimensions 2000 watt Inverter/Charger. (no guarantees here) The charger portion of that inverter has three stages built into it, a "BULK RATE" an "ACCEPTANCE RATE" and a "FLOAT RATE". The bulk rate is for when your HOUSE batteries are way down. Then, when the controller in the charger section is satisfied with bulk charging them, it rolls over to the Acceptance rate for leveling things off.

Then, when it's happy with that, it moves to the "Float rate" which, is a trickle charger to maintain them. In any case, as you most likely know, that charger charges ONLY THE HOUSE BATTERIES, NOT THE CHASSIS BATTERIES. Hence, the need for the Trik-L-Start.

In your case, since your rig sits for quite a while, and, while you've indicated that you're avoiding it, I think the smart thing to do would be to remove them, take them with you, get them home, clean things up if there's any corrosion etc. on them and, put them on a good charger, preferably a three stage, until they're totally charged. That way, you don't have to sit around with the generator putting a zillion hours on itself trying to bring up chassis batteries a small amount. Just a thought here.


Then, take them back and re-install them. But, if you have no way of shutting off the chassis batteries like you do with the house batteries, I'd leave the negative cables un done 'till you're ready to pull her out for either use on a trip or, a long, exercising drive. This way when you're ready to head out on a trip or, just to exercise the rig, you're alternator isn't going bonkers trying to charge (5) (assuming three house and two chassis) batteries because the rig's been sitting for a long stint. Just some suggestions here. Hope it all works out.
Scott

[Jupiter]

Appreciate all comments, folks. I'm in PA and the weather has been below freezing, often in the teens overnight, for too many weeks.

Scott, Thank you for the detailed response. Electronics is not my strongest suit and your response helped to clarify a few things for me. Let me respond to some of your questions. I do have a Trik-L-Start which was installed by the original owner. We purchased the Journey (39k) privately in 2011. And yes, I do have the Dimensions 2000 watt Inverter/Charger. Much appreciate the operational narrative on the inverter.

Last year I pulled the batteries and charged them at home with a dandy Battery Tender 5-bank smart charger that the previous owner provided with the coach. Unfortunately, some of the batteries were no longer capable of adequately holding a charge and so I replaced all of them since they were aged and their condition was questionable. My plan this winter was to start and drive the coach every few weeks to keep charged and to regularly exercise all systems. Oh yeah.... and I like to drive it, too.

I've avoided driving it the past month because the roads have been regularly salted and I refuse to expose the undercarriage to that nasty corrosion. The daytime weather is supposed to be in the 40's next week, and if the roads are salt-free, I'm planning on cranking it up and taking it for an hour drive again. Sounds like running the gen and using the charger should do no harm. I'll run the gen for a few hours and use the block heater as well to help put a load on the gen. Thanks again, Scott for taking the time to help.

Sure seems like this winter is dragging on. I'm looking forward to some windshield time and the smell of wood smoke real soon!

cheers,
Joopy (officially retired 1/2/13 )

[FIRE UP]

Jupiter,
You're certainly welcome Sir. We've all been there, in the learning stage. Most of us still are, learning that is. It just helps to know and understand the operations of ones rig. You don't have to get down to the crank shaft and pistons, (unless you're ambitious) but, knowing how your batteries are charges, when things happen, how they happen and consequenses of them happening.

There's lots of owners of RVs out there that never received any documentation, manuals, books and more out there, when they purchased their RV. For the life of me, I can't figure out why one would not keep all the documentation, books and manuals with the coach, at all times. And then, when it comes time for sale, that package, with all the books etc. are there for the new owner. Then that new owner has referances to scan over so the he/she can get a better handle on how things work and maybe how to trouble shoot some minor problems, should they arise.

Glad I could be of some help. That's what's nice about this forum. We all try and help.
Scott

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by Clay L

There may have been a couple of Winnebago models (Ultimate Advantage?) where the converter charged both the house and chassis batteries but as a rule the converter does not.

You might wedge something under the momentary AUX START switch on the dash. It activates a continuous duty solenoid that connects the house and engine batteries. That will allow both sets to be charged by the converter either from the generator or shore power.
Although the solenoid is continuous duty I wouldn't leave in on any longer than necessary.

Clay L has outlined the easiest method for recharging all the batteries. You shouldn't have to worry about the length of time you leave the auxillary start solenoid engeged. It automatically engages any time the engine is running to charge both the house and chassis batteries.

At the 2008 GNR one of the Winnebago reps actually prompted charging the chassis batteries by this method when camped for long periods. The other suggestion he made was to replace the MOM switch with a 3 position switch.

When the switch is in the lower position it allowd the solenoid to work automatically (when the engine was started).

In the center position (used for storage) none of the batteries were connected.

In the top position the solenoid connected the house and coach batteries so they could all be charged by the converter.

The method suggested by John Hilley will also work fine. The advantage of his method is that it will put a higher load on the generator. Onan recommends running the generator at least 1 hr per month at 1/2 load or higher.

[Jupiter]

Thanks Hikerdog! Appreciate the additional info and reassurance of the charging method. The 3-way switch concept is interesting. But, if I understand correctly, the center position, or any position for that matter, would not do anything to eliminate the parasitic draw on the chassis batteries.

thanks,
Joopy

[Hikerdogs]

You are correct in that none of the things discussed so far will eliminate the parasitic draw. We installed a chassis battery cut off switch for just that purpose. There are many types available but this is the one we choose.

The Big Switch with Lock-Out - FR1005 - 584 - 5467

It's not cheap but ours has been in place since the motorhome was almost new and it's worked perfectly for over 12 years now.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by Clay L

There may have been a couple of Winnebago models (Ultimate Advantage?) where the converter charged both the house and chassis batteries but as a rule the converter does not.

You might wedge something under the momentary AUX START switch on the dash. It activates a continuous duty solenoid that connects the house and engine batteries. That will allow both sets to be charged by the converter either from the generator or shore power.
Although the solenoid is continuous duty I wouldn't leave in on any longer than necessary.

You are right about the Ultimate series charging circuit. I was told today by a Camping World technician that our house batteries were not receiving alternator charging on our MH as designed; and that was not even a problem I had on the repairs list.

[wa8yxm]

Let's see

Run the generator to power the converter to charge the house and use a portable (Hopefully SMART) charger on the chassis battery.

Since you ask about the Trick-L-Start I will assume you do not have a bi-directional isolator (House charged chassis and the other way around).

Will using a smart charger cause issues with the Trick-L-Start?

NO, go right ahead, Good plan.