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Old 04-12-2010, 03:22 PM   #21
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I seem to be having the same problem on my '01 Journey. Where would this charging solenoid be located for this DP?

Nick
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:27 PM   #22
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It's probably in a different location from my gas Adventurer (under the entry steps), so I'll let the Journey guys answer this.

This is what it looks like in my rig:



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Old 04-14-2010, 08:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by traveler of california View Post
I seem to be having the same problem on my '01 Journey. Where would this charging solenoid be located for this DP?

Nick
On my 2007 Journey 39K, the solenoid is located behind the front cover for the electrical panel behind the hood. It has four twist lock handles to remover the panel.

The best way to get at the solenoid after the cover panel is off is to take the entire frame the panel locks into off, just about 8-10 screws.

It is a little bigger than the Adventurer unit pictured above. IIRC, it was $65 from Lichsten.

Best Regards!
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:02 PM   #24
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It is possible the layout of my 03 Ultimate is similar to your Journey. They didn't change electrical things to much from year to year. Anyway in my Ultimate the heavy duty charging solinoid is located in the front left compartment and is a bit larger than the pic Thudman provided. It is mounted on the forward bulkhead of the compartment up near the DC power distribution panel with all the circuit breakers and automotive type relays.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:30 PM   #25
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Thanks Old Snipe and Road King, I've found it just where you said it would be. Now to determine if that is the issue and if so, to muster the "courage" to change it.

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Old 04-16-2010, 01:06 PM   #26
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Here's a trick I use if I have any doubts about grounding a hot cable:
1) go to HD or Lowes and get a short length of clear plastic tubing fat enough to go over the cable end but not so fat it'll be sloppy (I want it to stay by friction based on its size & probably the pre-bend from coming off the coil at the store
2) cut 3-4" pieces for however many cable ends I'll be messing with
3) arrange the order of work so I can remove a nut leaving the cable on the stud, then w/two hands- one for the cable and one for the tube insulator, remove cable from stud & insert to insulator tube
4) continue till all cables are free
5) reverse for assembly
That way if a free cable flops around as they can and do, the conductor end is covered. Makes high amp cabling less spooky to muck with.
Works for smaller wires also when needed.
If I'm going to be yarding on stuff, e.g. hauling out a battery that may rub on the cable, I'll tape the insulator to the cable so it won't pull off (good time for duct tape).
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:38 PM   #27
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Hi All,

Remember that the wrenches used to remove the nuts are made of steel. Steel may not be quite as good a conductor as copper and silver, but will still pass thousands of Amps. So be very careful that they don’t touch ground when you are removing the red positive leads from the contactors! (unless the circuit is opened at the battery ground lead, see below)

That is the reason for disconnecting the ground lead at the battery. No problem if the wrench touches ground with this removal and once the ground is removed, the circuit is open and then it is safe to work on the solenoids. (see below)

Also remember to remove all ground leads if the coach has both a chassis and a coach battery or multiple ground wires on either bank since both banks will be wired to the tie contactor. Remove all sources of charging as well, by shutting down shore power and not having the generator running.

Once this is done, work away, makes changing out the tie contactor much more pleasurable and a lot quicker.

Remember that this works on cars, boats, plains, and trains as well.
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:08 PM   #28
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Nick: Does your rig have a BIRD (Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay) controller that engerizes the isolator relay? Prior to changing the isolator relay check to see if the isolator relay coil is being energized by the BIRD module. THe BIRD will apply 12VDC to the coil winding on the isolator to close the contacts.

According to the BIRD manual if you're operating on shore power the BIRD should engerize the isolator relay when the coach batteries go above 13.3 volts and remains for at least 2 and 1/2 minutes. If voltage drops below 12.8 volts the BIRD will open the isolator relay.

On my rig the BIRD is mounted on the aft bulkhead of the left forward compartment.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
I copied this from another post on another forum some time back. Maybe it will be of use.

"Trombetta part number is 262-251-5454
Tie Contactor
Copper contacts 114-1211-010-03 (Winnie PN)
I called Lichtsinn parts to order one for my '02 Adventurer and the parts guy said those numbers didn't correspond to any Winnebago part number, but he knew what I needed. So I looked it up on the Winnebago parts finder and it shows this part number: 008188-01-000 and is described as a "Solenoid, 3 post, battery changeover" on page 118/267. $29.20.
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:31 PM   #30
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Hi All,

The ‘262-251-5454’ is a phone number for Trombetta.

These are the part numbers. The Winne PN is for the 2004 model year. They may have changed it and that is why Lichtsinn couldn’t find it. My recommendation is to purchase the silver contact contactor direct from Trombetta. Silver is a much more reliable contact material (lower resistance and less prone to pitting causing no current to flow).

Copper contacts 114-1211-010-03 (Winnie PN)
Silver contacts 114-1211-020 (Trombetta PN)new numbers
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:10 AM   #31
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Thumbs down

Sorry folks, my karma seems to include reviving old threads. I choose this one because I have browsed hours on the bridging solenoid and this thread describes my gas coach and voltage symptoms exactly. I am ready and able to change out an exact match solenoid, which I believe is a 008188-01-000 (Winnie Part#) or a 936-1215-011-21 (Trombetta Part#). But, this solenoid has copper contacts and several members have recommended getting one with silver contacts. This would appear to be an 8188-02-000 (Winnie Part#) or a 114-1211-020 (Trombetta Part#), one of the “Bear Family” contactors in their line. This is a physically larger unit with different terminal locations from the original equipment and it appears to need an added grounding wire.

Can someone who’s made this substitution/replacement confirm these part numbers, provide installation and wiring tips, and suggest economical sourcing? Does Trombetta sell single units direct? How does pricing compare to WI dealers? Or should I get the part from an online RV parts house? I get the feeling that NAPA sells the OEM part or equivalent; do they sell the Bear silver contact unit as well?

Thanks for any shared expertise out there.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:22 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by hdmoxness View Post
Sorry folks, my karma seems to include reviving old threads. I choose this one because I have browsed hours on the bridging solenoid and this thread describes my gas coach and voltage symptoms exactly. I am ready and able to change out an exact match solenoid, which I believe is a 008188-01-000 (Winnie Part#) or a 936-1215-011-21 (Trombetta Part#). But, this solenoid has copper contacts and several members have recommended getting one with silver contacts. This would appear to be an 8188-02-000 (Winnie Part#) or a 114-1211-020 (Trombetta Part#), one of the “Bear Family” contactors in their line. This is a physically larger unit with different terminal locations from the original equipment and it appears to need an added grounding wire.

Can someone who’s made this substitution/replacement confirm these part numbers, provide installation and wiring tips, and suggest economical sourcing? Does Trombetta sell single units direct? How does pricing compare to WI dealers? Or should I get the part from an online RV parts house? I get the feeling that NAPA sells the OEM part or equivalent; do they sell the Bear silver contact unit as well?

Thanks for any shared expertise out there.
When I called Trombetta they said the part they sell Winnebago is a 114-1211-010 that has some ventilation holes drilled as specified by Winebago and the 114-1211-020 is the same size but has silver contacts and no vent holes.

I will know for sure in a few days because I bought the 114-1211-020 and will replace the old one soon.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:10 PM   #33
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Thanks, Clay. If WI uses a 114-1211-010 now, that's not what they originally put in your and my older coaches. My original is the Trombetta 936 series (936-1215-011-21) as pictured by Thudman above. So I am standing by for your installation blessing on the 114-1211-020. I take it you ordered it direct from Trombetta, yes? Ballpark price, if I can ask?
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:41 AM   #34
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Hopefully I will be able to take a look at it today. I hope they gave me the right info and it fits okay. There is not a lot of extra room in the box as I recall.

I bought it from a Trombetta distributor:
MurCal
41343 12th Street West
Palmdale, CA 93551
Phone:800-321-8386

Price $43 plus shipping.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #35
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Okay I opened the box and took the panel off. The solenoid number Trombetta gave me is wrong.

It is indeed the 936-1215-011 as you said except the "-21" is not at the end. I downloaded the part number break down for the 936 family and it only shows ten digits in the part number. This is the text part of the pdf file.
"Enter Complete Part Number Here
Ordering Information • Custom features available upon request,
Contact your Trombetta sales rep before ordering. xxx -x x xx -xx x "

If you go HERE you can download the PN file.
It shows that silver contacts and a 15 volt coil is available.
That part number appears to be 936-1515-020

The 15 means a 15 volt coil and the 2 means silver contacts.

I am going to call Murcal and see if I can return it and get the right one.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:17 PM   #36
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To continue the story Murcal will let me return the solenoid but there will be a $15 restocking fee. It wasn't their fault so that's fair I think.

They don't carry the right one (936-1515-020) so they gave me the numbers of two other distributors that might have it. I called one (800 686 8439) and he is checking with Trombetta to see if he can get it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #37
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Exclamation Careful . . .

Was the 114-1211-020 physically too big to get in the space? From the specs I read on the Trombetta site, I’m sure it would do the job—if it would fit.

By the numbers, what we really need is a 936-1215-021 (the 2 for silver contacts), but they don’t offer that off the shelf, I don’t think.

Before you go too far, I’d be careful about ordering a 15 volt coil, because the pull in voltages are going to be higher, and the contactor may open up or stay open in a low voltage situation, just when you want it to close or stay closed. I’ll have to investigate more in the morning. I’m going to do further research on a silver contact substitute, and using dimensions from the Trombetta site, I’m going to look in my relay box to see if a 114 will fit, or not.

I also checked out NAPA online (search “battery isolator” there), and I am starting to wonder if a $15 relay that would fit right in isn’t the most practical solution, even if I had to carry a spare. I’m going to look at that more tomorrow as well. I’ll let you know anything I discover.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:48 AM   #38
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I replaced mine last May with a NAPA P/N ST85 (Orig Trombetta 936-1215-011-21.

I believe I had to add a ground wire as the case is not grounded. So far so good.

I paid $60.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:06 AM   #39
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Was the 114-1211-020 physically too big to get in the space? From the specs I read on the Trombetta site, I’m sure it would do the job—if it would fit.

By the numbers, what we really need is a 936-1215-021 (the 2 for silver contacts), but they don’t offer that off the shelf, I don’t think.

Before you go too far, I’d be careful about ordering a 15 volt coil, because the pull in voltages are going to be higher, and the contactor may open up or stay open in a low voltage situation, just when you want it to close or stay closed. I’ll have to investigate more in the morning. I’m going to do further research on a silver contact substitute, and using dimensions from the Trombetta site, I’m going to look in my relay box to see if a 114 will fit, or not.

I also checked out NAPA online (search “battery isolator” there), and I am starting to wonder if a $15 relay that would fit right in isn’t the most practical solution, even if I had to carry a spare. I’m going to look at that more tomorrow as well. I’ll let you know anything I discover.
The 114-1211-020 is not too large but the mounting holes are farther apart and at least one new one would have to be drilled. Access is very limited in my case. The relay box is mounted on the left side of a compartment that is above the propane tank. The compartment is wide and deep but not very high. I have to struggle a little to get my head turned right to get it in so I can see. I can only get one arm in at a time. I figure just getting the wires and mounting screws off and back on the new solenoid is going to be a big enough problem that I am not going to add any more difficulty.

As far as pull in voltage goes, since the relay is pulled in by the AUX switch which is using the house battery voltage (12.6 vdc or so) or by the alternator output (14.6 vdc) I don't think that will be an issue. If I did any boondocking it might be a different story though.

If push comes to shove I can always put a temporary jumper from the house batteries to the engine battery for an emergency start.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:26 AM   #40
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Clay: I agree with your ‘don’t add more difficulty’ principle. I was thinking we had the same access under the top step, but now I understand ours are in different places. I maybe have some room, but it would still be a struggle, so I think I’m going to stick with a close replacement. My goal is to get my house batteries to charge when the engine alternator is running—this is a necessary routine operating condition, not a matter of emergency jumpers.

I’ve located about 15 NAPA solenoids that look like our 936, but I haven’t yet found how to get their specs. I’m going to call and see if I can find out more.

Dan: Pictures of the ST85 do show 4 posts, so a ground wire would be required. Did you determine the Echlin ST85 to have identical specs for amps and voltages, etc.? I can’t get the specs from the website . . . yet.

Thanks to both of you for jumping in here. Standby for more!
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