Battery Wiring Upgrade

Lefler39 · 05-08-2022, 02:56 PM

I have two (GROUP 31) LITHIUM 12V 100 AMP batteries placed into the NAVION step location

I found on Amazon 4 posts battery connector (RED/Black) positive negative terminal block. I wanted to eliminate the 4 wires connecting to directly to my Lithium Batteries posts. I wanted to add (in addition to my ONE PLACE) a Amazon Monitor to know the % of Life of the battery.

I have shared and attached the BEFORE / AFTER photos of the wiring to the Positive and Negative blocks, Monitor Block and wiring change.

The battery wiring appears cleaner.

DavidM · 05-08-2022, 03:48 PM

I have the same battery monitor. <$50 and works great. I have been using it for more than a year.

David

Lefler39 · 05-09-2022, 07:43 AM

David,

I glad you wrote that comment

**creativepart** · 05-09-2022, 08:08 AM

Lefler39, maybe it’s just the photo but, it looks like your positive battery cables are a smaller gauge than the negative cables. Am I just seeing things or is that so?

Lefler39 · 05-09-2022, 08:18 AM

You are correct. NAPA built the cables with 2 AWG.
The POSITIVE Battery multiple post is a short distance to the POSITIVE terminal.

BATTERIES
LITHIUM replace NAPA 12V !00 AMP LEAD ACID.
Original 1 AWG were used

Lefler39 · 05-09-2022, 08:30 AM

Here is the LOAD calculations

1 gauge cable: Single-core 1 gauge wire is rated at 180 amps, and this drops to 55 amps if there are 43 cores or more.

2 gauge cable: Single-core 2 gauge wire is rated at 170 amps, dropping to 57 amps for cables with 43 cores or more.

**creativepart** · 05-09-2022, 08:43 AM

I’m no expert on cable sizing or anything else for that matter, but everyone I’ve spoken to on this subject says that in a perfect world cables should all the same gauge. If the factory spec’d 1ga for the OEM batteries wouldn’t it be good practice to stick with that throughout?

Lefler39 · 05-09-2022, 01:00 PM

Excellent comment!

Wire length plays an important part in maintaining voltage.

Tight quarters required less length in all wires. All wires for this transformation were reduced as a % in length from the originals OEM.

The length of the OLD POSITIVE 1AWG was OEM 18". Shown in before photo

I used the Old OEM NEGATIVE 18" 1AWG to fit upon the Monitor Terminal (As Shown) because it fit and without purchasing another one.

The replacement was 2AWG at 6" from POST to Battey POSITIVE terminal.

Noah4448 · 05-15-2022, 05:07 PM

Make sure your charger is set to a Lithium profile. If it does not have such a profile as I understand it your house charger will not charge the batteries to their full potential.

Also, your truck charger could possibly over/undercharge your lithium batteries. Do a search here in Lithium batteries and you will find a bunch of information on this.

Lefler39 · 05-16-2022, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah4448

Make sure your charger is set to a Lithium profile. If it does not have such a profile as I understand it your house charger will not charge the batteries to their full potential.

Also, your truck charger could possibly over/undercharge your lithium batteries. Do a search here in Lithium batteries and you will find a bunch of information on this.

Thank you. Our Navion by Winnebago has a ZAMP Solar Controller has a button " Battery Type" and I have set it to LITHIUM

**creativepart** · 05-16-2022, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefler39

Thank you. Our Navion by Winnebago has a ZAMP Solar Controller has a button " Battery Type" and I have set it to LITHIUM

You should know that this setting ONLY applies to your solar charge controller which is totally separate of your RV’s Converter/Charger and of course has no bearing on alternator charging at all.

Each of these chargers in your RV needs to be Lithium compatible. And they are very likely not so equipped. You’ve got the solar charger set but more importantly you need to address your Converter’s charging profile for Lithium batteries. Followed by taking steps to protect both your batteries and your alternator while driving your RV.

Lefler39 · 05-16-2022, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

You should know that this setting ONLY applies to your solar charge controller which is totally separate of your RV’s Converter/Charger and of course has no bearing on alternator charging at all.

Each of these chargers in your RV needs to be Lithium compatible. And they are very likely not so equipped. You’ve got the solar charger set but more importantly you need to address your Converter’s charging profile for Lithium batteries. Followed by taking steps to protect both your batteries and your alternator while driving your RV.

The Mercedes Sprinter Alternator- According to the Mercedes dealer (and tech at that dealer), the Sprinter alternator puts out only 14.0 volts. That’s a problem if accurate, because it is too low for charging a lithium battery to 100% (or even 95%), or even many lead acid batteries.

- However my 375 WATTS of Solar charge the 200 AMP 12 V batteries efficiently

**creativepart** · 05-16-2022, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefler39

However my 375 WATTS of Solar charge the 200 AMP 12 V batteries efficiently

I’d suggest you do some more research and planning on this whole project.

When plugged into shore power your Converter will be doing the charging, not so much your solar panels. It’s likely a given that that charger in your RV is not Lithium compatible. What are you going to do about that? Most folks update the Converter to a newer model the has Lithium charging profiles.

And when driving you must concern yourself with not only how the batteries are charged by the alternator but the possible damage that your Lithium battery can do to your alternator. This is where folks put in a Li-BIM or disconnect the alternator from the lithium battery and install a DC to DC charger.

Lastly, 375w of solar puts out just under 30 amps of current on a perfect day, with you parked in the perfect place to receive it. Normally, you’ll likely see 20-25 amps of charging at best. If your battery is near full then, yeah, your solar will do a great job. If your battery is drawn way down… then not so much. And when it rains or there’s lots of cloud cover or when trees block the Sun you will not recover enough power to fully charge your battery.

All of these things are interrelated and need to be addressed.

Lefler39 · 05-16-2022, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

I’d suggest you do some more research and planning on this whole project.

When plugged into shore power your Converter will be doing the charging, not so much your solar panels. It’s likely a given that that charger in your RV is not Lithium compatible. What are you going to do about that? Most folks update the Converter to a newer model the has Lithium charging profiles.

And when driving you must concern yourself with not only how the batteries are charged by the alternator but the possible damage that your Lithium battery can do to your alternator. This is where folks put in a Li-BIM or disconnect the alternator from the lithium battery and install a DC to DC charger.

Lastly, 375w of solar puts out just under 30 amps of current on a perfect day, with you parked in the perfect place to receive it. Normally, you’ll likely see 20-25 amps of charging at best. If your battery is near full then, yeah, your solar will do a great job. If your battery is drawn way down… then not so much. And when it rains or there’s lots of cloud cover or when trees block the Sun you will not recover enough power to fully charge your battery.

All of these things are interrelated and need to be addressed.

It appears from your comment I need add a 120V Inverter/Charger and an isolated DC-DC charger to the alternator. I am going to contact my LITHIUM batteries company to see their recommendation for compatibility

Thank you.

**creativepart** · 05-16-2022, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefler39

It appears from your comment I need add a 120V Inverter/Charger and an isolated DC-DC charger to the alternator. I am going to contact my LITHIUM batteries company to see their recommendation for compatibility

Changing from your OEM Convert/Charger to a modern full featured Inverter/Charger would likely solve a number of problems for you. Including providing a 110v pass through for when you are on shore power (I think you planned on an inverter without pass through and mentioned something about manual switching?)

However, you should know that changing from a Converter to an Inverter for your battery charging will also add some complexity to the total installation. It’s certainly doable but more complex than simply upgrading the Converter. Which is why many chose to go that way.

The D2D charger does solve the alternator issue well and is a popular choice.

Lefler39 · 05-17-2022, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

Changing from your OEM Convert/Charger to a modern full featured Inverter/Charger would likely solve a number of problems for you. Including providing a 110v pass through for when you are on shore power (I think you planned on an inverter without pass through and mentioned something about manual switching?)

However, you should know that changing from a Converter to an Inverter for your battery charging will also add some complexity to the total installation. It’s certainly doable but more complex than simply upgrading the Converter. Which is why many chose to go that way.

The D2D charger does solve the alternator issue well and is a popular choice.

I appreciate your knowledge and recommendations

Shedboy · 05-20-2022, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the post! I have just started upgrading my Navion to LiFePO4 but am in no hurry, my twin 6 volt modification has proven to satisfy my boondocking needs. However the rapid increase in cost of components has prompted me to start gathering parts and pieces.There is a diagram of an RV LiFePO4 system that is useful in identifying the various modifications necessary at:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...Schematics.png

Basically my overall mission is to enable 5 energy sources
:
1. Vehicle Alternator
2. RV generator
3. Solar Panel
4. Wind Turbine
5. Shore Power

to supply the RV energy (except for propane} needs without unintended consequences.

It appears that my next acquisition will be a control box and an inverter/charger with integrated transfer switch. I have yet to find a control box that incorporates my wind turbine. Please continue to post your progress.

**creativepart** · 05-21-2022, 08:05 AM

Wind turbines are somewhat common on boats but quite rare on RVs. The main reason is the low output most of the time when camping. They don’t add that much more power to the charging system. Plus a bit difficult to put up and take down, difficult to store and noisy when they are really producing.

Perhaps a solar charge controller would also be suitable for a wind generator? I don’t know but I’m sure if you check out some sailing forums you’d find the answer.