Autotransformer vs. Surge Protector or Both?

mkminewine · 05-23-2006, 11:18 AM

We realize that we need to have protection for all of the electrical 'gadgets' that our coach has. However, I have been unable to wade through all the information to determine if we need an autotransformer, a surge protector or both. What are the brands you recommend? We have 50 amp service in the coach.

In addition, we have a dog we leave in the motorhome sometimes during the day. Do surge protectors shut off the power for extended periods that might harm the dog during hot weather?

Thanks,
Joy

mkminewine · 05-23-2006, 11:18 AM

We realize that we need to have protection for all of the electrical 'gadgets' that our coach has. However, I have been unable to wade through all the information to determine if we need an autotransformer, a surge protector or both. What are the brands you recommend? We have 50 amp service in the coach.

In addition, we have a dog we leave in the motorhome sometimes during the day. Do surge protectors shut off the power for extended periods that might harm the dog during hot weather?

Thanks,
Joy

John_Canfield · 05-23-2006, 12:54 PM

If you can do both - go for both. A 50 amp autoformer is heavy and expensive and takes up a bit of room. It is great for dealing with voltage sags or low voltage in some parks. It is sometimes called a buck/boost transformer and it will tend to minimize voltage swings high or low. Its surge protection will not be as effective as a dedicated surge guard.

I chose just to go with the hard-wired 50 amp surge guard; you can see the installation on our rv pages at janeandjohn.org.

The surge guard model I have will cut off voltage to the coach on a high or low voltage situation which is a good thing. I believe it continues to monitor the line voltage and will restore the voltage to the coach once it is within norms.

In nine months of continuous camping, there was one occasion where I would have killed for an autoformer - we were at a state park in western Virginia and on the weekends when the park filled up, the voltage would sag quite a bit in the mornings when everybody was running coffee pots and electric heaters. That has been the only time I really need one.

There was a previous thread on this forum about this topic and you will find lots of previous discussions on rv.net also. Do some searches and read away for more opinions.

And - welcome to the best bunch on the Internet!

mkminewine · 05-23-2006, 03:04 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by John_Canfield:

The surge guard model I have will cut off voltage to the coach on a high or low voltage situation which is a good thing. I believe it continues to monitor the line voltage and will restore the voltage to the coach once it is within norms.

John,
I have looked at several forums & like the above quote from you, none of them touch on the subject of having a pet in the motorhome when the power is shut off.

Is this something I need to be concerned about with the Surge Guard? Are the shut-offs for long enough that it could possibly kill our dog? (Sorry to you non-dog-lovers, but she is my only child; and I do not want to modify my coach where it could possibly harm her.)
Joy

Harry B · 05-23-2006, 03:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is this something I need to be concerned about with the Surge Guard? Are the shut-offs for long enough that it could possibly kill our dog? (Sorry to you non-dog-lovers, but she is my only child; and I do not want to modify my coach where it could possibly harm her.)
Joy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only way to fully protect against any power outage is to have Automatic Generator Start (AGS) on a coach. Airconditioners will stop working if the voltage goes to low, probably damaging the compressors in the process. The Surge Guard will disconnect power before it causes any damage. If AC power were to drop out and you have AGS installed, it would automatically start the generator and the airconditioners would contunue to work after the normal 2-3 minute delay when a generator powers up. This is the only fool proof way to deal with power outages or low power, which is why we have AGS installed along with a Surge Guard, as we also leave our dog in the coach at times.

HArry

Kazoo Tom · 05-23-2006, 03:33 PM

I don't currently have a surge guard installed, but intend to get a hard wired 30 amp unit for my coach. We also travel with a pet and have the same concerns. I, too, have not had that question answered on any of the forums. I will be attempting to contact the manufacturer for the answer through their web site. The one I was looking for can be seen at Surge Guard

Progressive Industries also produces a surge guard called Smart Surge (see Progressive Industries). It appears to offer the same protections as the Surge Guard and maybe a bit more. I think they are both worth a look, but have the same questions about this one.

mkminewine · 05-23-2006, 04:03 PM

If as John suggested, I were to get both the autoformer and the surge protector, would the autoformer bring up any low voltage so that the surge protector wouldn't cut off the electricity? Or would the surge protector override the autoformer? Also, aren't there campgrounds out there who would frown at having a generator running with an AGS?

DancinCampers · 05-23-2006, 05:26 PM

I have the 50 Amp SurgeGuard installed, hardwired. I haven't had it shut down due to low voltage yet, but is has on high voltage. After the time delay of about 2 1/2 minutes, if conditions are ok, it will restore power to the coach.

I also have the Onan EC30 Auto Gen Start installed. When I lose shore power it starts the generator, if Air Conditioning (AC) is required, which will run until shore power is restored. I installed it for our Yorkie.

My EC30 senses shore power at the pedestal, not in the coach. My only concern at this time is if the voltage is outside the limits continuosly for an extended period of time, where the SurgeGuard repeatatly shuts off & on, but shore power is still there. The generator would not start in this case.

I haven't run into this senario yet.

The EC30 is also great when drycamping, as it will turn off & on when the AC demands it. I plan to add a switch so it will also work when I have the basement air in the heatpump mode.

DancinCampers · 05-23-2006, 05:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, aren't there campgrounds out there who would frown at having a generator running with an AGS? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joy,

I personally wouldn't care.

Dsouthw524 · 05-24-2006, 02:40 AM

The question about how long the power would be shut off by the serge gard is simple - as long as the power was too high or low. Of course aside from the period the delay built into the surgeguard system.

John_Canfield · 05-24-2006, 04:50 AM

Interesting situation - autoformer ahead of the surge guard - no low or high voltage cutoff. Hadn't thought of that scenario but it makes sense.

I completely understand your concern about keeping your pet safe; we travel with two pets so I always need to look out for them. I did install the Auto Gen Start and I have a dedicated thermostat that would start the genny if the temperature rose too much in the coach, but I haven't had the need for it as yet.

Having the genny start at the campground on a power failure wouldn't bother me one bit - I'll bet you would have the harmony of many generators running there on a power loss.

We have the Fantastic fans in the coach and one of them is controlled by a thermostat - we frequently will set the fan on high speed and set its thermostat at about 78 degrees. If we did have an AC failure the fan will start and keep things very tolerable even without a window open. The coach is not air tight so there would be provisions for a vent.

If you are day tripping, I think just the fan solution is a good one unless you are camped in Arizona in July. If you are going to be away overnight or longer, then my choice would be a kennel or a pet sitter.

One more tip - when we are away from the coach, we post in the windshield a large (8 1/2x11) laminated emergency contact sheet with our cell numbers and pictures of the cats - if there was an emergency, responders would know there are pets aboard.

mkminewine · 05-24-2006, 06:13 PM

The only problem I see with putting the autoformer before the surge guard is the high price of the autoformer. To fry it with a power surge would be a $500+ expense.

I appreciate the idea of having a picture of our dog & our cell number in the windshield. I would assume the cell number isn't facing out to let people know no one is there? We already have a plaque on the door that says "dog inside, please rescue".

Kazoo Tom · 05-24-2006, 06:24 PM

I got an email response from Surge Guard and yes the Surge Guard will come back on when the voltage returns to normal. For pets that may not be a good thing, especially if the power drops for long periods of time, or for an out and out power outage. For pets, clearly the best idea is an autostart for the generator.

rebelsbeach · 05-25-2006, 02:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:

One more tip - when we are away from the coach, we post in the windshield a large (8 1/2x11) laminated emergency contact sheet with our cell numbers and pictures of the cats - if there was an emergency, responders would know there are pets aboard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that my good friend,is a GREAT idea....

Not only does John have great "mod" ideas,he has now come up with a great "modern living" idea!!

John_Canfield · 05-25-2006, 05:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I appreciate the idea of having a picture of our dog & our cell number in the windshield. I would assume the cell number isn't facing out to let people know no one is there? We already have a plaque on the door that says "dog inside, please rescue". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If your toad is gone, that is a tip-off right there that nobody is around. I really don't worry about burglary in the usual campground during the day. Our cell numbers *are* very prominently posted.

When we were cruising in the Caribbean a few years ago on our sailboat we spent a month in Grenada. Got tired of being anchored with the 'fleet' and we moved off to an isolated cove for a few days - bad mistake. We went to the every-Sunday beach party for cruisers a couple of miles away and returned to our boat to find that we had been burgled. They swam out to the boat and took a couple of duffle bags and loaded up on our goodies. Moral of the story - safety in numbers - sort of like a neighborhood watch.