Amp-L-Start not working? - Page 2

staggerlee · 05-26-2018, 08:19 PM

All our controls are Xantrex.
However we don't have one of these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xantrex-Hea...oAAOSwoX5axpTI

They cost more than that other one, but you can talk to someone.
Lee

luckydog1949 · 05-26-2018, 08:38 PM

I installed an Amp-L-Start on our coach three years ago; and, we've had no trouble with it, since. But, it IS designed to work with working batteries. If your chassis battery only measures 6v, it is either dead and useless, or you have miswired a two 6v battery system. Does your battery have six caps or three?

tommymsw · 05-26-2018, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckydog1949

I installed an Amp-L-Start on our coach three years ago; and, we've had no trouble with it, since. But, it IS designed to work with working batteries. If your chassis battery only measures 6v, it is either dead and useless, or you have miswired a two 6v battery system. Does your battery have six caps or three?

So I mentioned earlier, the chassis battery charges FINE when the engine is running. I know I need to get a new one because it has drained so low since I got the Amp-L-Start, but it DOES still charge from the engine. AND, when the RV is plugged into shore, the house batteries are charging fine (14.6v) but the Amp-L-Start is pushing ZERO volts over to the chassis battery. Even though the light on the Amp-L-Start says "Charging".

I would assume of it was working (even to a crappy battery), I should see SOME volts coming out for the Amp-L-Start. Even if the battery didn't hold the charge, there should still be a charge coming out. And again, it says "charging"... Just no volts coming out.

I mean, I could be wrong? Maybe the Amp-L-Start will not send current if the chassis battery is too low? No way to know as they have zero customer support. But I assume if the device says "charging", I should get a read on my meter... Just like I do when the engine is charging it.

tommymsw · 05-26-2018, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossi6998

I am disappointed to hear about the negative responses. I have one installed on my motorhome which I bought about four years ago. I remember calling the company back then to ask a question and spoke with someone on the phone on my first try. The product has worked flawlessly for me; however, customer service is a big deal for me. I would rather pay twice the price on a similar product then buy a cheaper product with poor customer service.

I agree with you. I am sure many people have gotten working products, but there are no "reviews" so I have no idea how many. Had I known the customer support was bad, I would not have bought, even if the chances were low at getting a bad one.

The one I found on Amazon is $50 more, but at least I know I can return it if I get a bad one.

This should just at least let people to know to beware... You may likely get a good one, but if you do not, you're stuck with the old one. I'd see if I could fix it, but the electronics are buried in that sealant! lol

luckydog1949 · 05-26-2018, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommymsw

So I mentioned earlier, the chassis battery charges FINE when the engine is running. I know I need to get a new one because it has drained so low since I got the Amp-L-Start, but it DOES still charge from the engine. AND, when the RV is plugged into shore, the house batteries are charging fine (14.6v) but the Amp-L-Start is pushing ZERO volts over to the chassis battery. Even though the light on the Amp-L-Start says "Charging".

1. The current provided by the Amp-L-Start is nowhere near the current provided by the alternator of any vehicle, much less a motor home.

2. The low relative current available from the Amp-L-Start, which literally "borrows" charging current from the house batteries, can indeed cause the voltage to be pulled down to the level of the bad battery. This is the same reason that you always replace all batteries in a vehicle at the same time; so a bad battery will not pull the other batteries down, ruining them.

3. Why throw away whatever you paid for the Amp-L-Start without investing in a new starting battery(ies) that you say you know you are going to have to buy anyway, and giving the A-L-S a fair chance?

This will be all of the advice I'll give on this; but, I will tell you that I am a retired electronics technician (second career) who is just trying to help save you money...

staggerlee · 05-27-2018, 07:42 PM

LSL Products
877-257-4655 (support only; no phone orders)
www.lslproducts.net

Switchflicke · 05-27-2018, 07:45 PM

Like luckydog says, the Amp-L-start only kicks in when the coach batteries are above a certain voltage, and even then it only will send a max of 15 amps across to the starting battery. Remember that the engine alternator puts out around 130 amps. That will charge the sickest battery.
I had a defective Amp-L-start a couple of years ago. Never worked right from the get'go.
I e-mailed back and forth a bit (only one guy working the sales, methinks) and he sent me a new one via USPS. To Canada yet! Didn't want the defective one.
Stan

tommymsw · 05-29-2018, 09:28 AM

For those of you saying it "may" be working but the battery is just too broken, are you saying that I should also get ZERO reading off of the Amp-L-Start when it is charging? Like, for instance, when the batteries are charging, they usually show higher amps (13v at least), but when the Apl-L-Start is charging, I should expect NO extra volts? Like it is THAT low that the meter will not change?

The starting battery WAS fine when I installed the Amp-L-Start but even if I charge it back up again, it just dies again over time as the Amp-L-Start is not sending any voltage. I don;t want to buy a NEW battery to "test" this as I am already down ONE battery and the Amp-L-Start. Wasting another couple hundred on a new battery only to watch it also get ruined is not my idea of a good time.

I would like to be SURE it is working. I would like to see some volts coming OUT of the device.

tommymsw · 05-29-2018, 09:29 AM

That does not do anything. They do not answer the phone or email. There is not support or returns.

Tucsontoy · 05-29-2018, 10:28 AM

This is going in circles. My guess is the starter battery has a shorted cell. Pull it out and have it tested with a load. It may charge but discharges very quick on its own. Maybe faster than the 12v charger can transfer energy. Test it and put this to rest. I believe the amp-L-start has an automatic shut off that will prevent the house batteries from draining if the chassis battery goes bad. I had similar issues with mine. My View was almost new and could not believe a 6 month old battery could be bad. Was not looking forward to tearing out the drivers floor on a new rig. Looks like the dealer let it go dead to many times and it was shot and had to by a new one in a remote location. No choice. Turns out that that is all it was because once replaced all issues went away.

Tucsontoy · 05-29-2018, 11:11 AM

I pulled the instruction from when I bough my Trik-L-Start. This is a copy of a quote in the instructions:

3. Check that no significant full-time loads are connected to the starting battery(s). If present, any loads must not be large enough to exceed TRIK-L-START's maximum
output capacity. Also, note that a battery's self-discharge load becomes much higher as it approaches the end of its useful life – Thus, failure to make the normal shift
from CHARGING to MAINTAINING states may be a clue that the starting battery needs replacing.

This is the clue when you stated yours stays "yellow."

e4services · 05-29-2018, 03:44 PM

I too still have not received a reply. So I did some digging.
I found the lsl products, Amp-L-Start, Trik-l-start, owner by using the WHOIS database, searching for lslproducts.net.
Registrant Contact
Name: Joel Donaldson
Organization: LSL Products
Mailing Address: 6437 Brookway Dr, San Antonio TX 78240 US
Phone: 210-699-8261
Email: [email protected]

I wrote the Email directly, no response to that either.

e4services · 05-29-2018, 03:52 PM

Search for Joel Donaldson San Antonio you get
Joel Raymond Donaldson age 61 and a phone ending in 8261, which verifies the above

e4services · 06-03-2018, 08:50 AM

Well, what do you know, my order arrived in the mail, 3 weeks later. No explanation or apology just the two devices. Unfortunately I already initiated the Chargeback, now he'll have to work to get the payment back, and maybe, just maybe, he will contact me.

Now back to the original question, I think you have a miss conception about these Bi-Directional chargers, they don't just "borrow" current "Anytime the batteries are charging", this gives the impression that both batteries are being charge all the time. Not true.
I agree with Tucsontoy above, the device needs to see, A. sufficient charge current to charge the house batteries to a point where B. they have hit the maintain limit and then and only then does the device redirect current to the chassis.
So as Tucsontoy said, it could be the chassis battery is just bad, but I would look at the house batteries or the connect there to. Check the current from the charging source, then the current running into house battery. if it is always high, then yes, the device will never put anything to the chassis. It needs to see that they are fully charge

e4services · 06-03-2018, 09:09 AM

Oh, and another point. before the Victron battery combiner was mentioned. This Trik-l-start and Amp-l-start are NOT combiners. The combiners just connect all the batteries together with no charge control. My understanding when this is used on some motorhomes, the house output from the combiner needs to be run through some sort of charge controller to prevent overcharging, yes?
Anyway the devices in question are monitoring charge controllers, like the Echo Charge, only a bit simpler. Hence the waiting for the house to be in maintain mode.
The Echo Charge I think would do more along the lines of what you were expecting as well as being a three stage charge over a two stage. As Xantrex states "The Digital echo-charge automatically switches ON and OFF, charging a starter or auxiliary battery without affecting the main house battery bank. The maximum charge current is 15 amps when the starting battery is 1/2 volt to 1 volt DC less than the house battery." "The Digital echo-charge is a voltage-follower, following the three-stage charge modes of the Freedom Charger. This method protects the starter battery from over-charging and ensures a long life for the battery."

The Echo Charge is a much better device and worth the added double cost.

tommymsw · 06-04-2018, 10:55 AM

I bought a new chassis battery. I have no idea if that solved the problem as the Amp-L-Start is behaving the exact same way. Says "charging" but there is no noticeable charge coming from it. As others have said, maybe the change is TOO low to show up on a meter? Although I am pretty certain it WOULD show a charge.

I guess I just wait and see if the new battery dies.

tommymsw · 06-11-2018, 06:06 PM

New chassis battery. Spent the night in an RV park plugged into 30amp. House batteries at 12.9, chassis battery was down to 12.2. So I am guessing either the Amp-L-Start does not work, or that the pull on my chassis battery is too high.

I know it is hooked up right and the lights read "charging". Must just be a bum unit. :(

Still have never heard back from the company ab out any of my emails.

Switchflicke · 06-12-2018, 07:17 AM

It seems to me that I read somewhere that the house battery needs to be a bit over 13 volts before it lets current go to the chassis battery. On mine, the house and chassis batteries are a bit over 13 volts after I've been plugged in for a while.

e4services · 06-12-2018, 08:40 AM

Well Definitely something is going on. If the "Charge " light is on, and not maintain then it is still seeing that the chassis battery needs charge current, but it appears it is applying none. I went out to check mine, which has been working fine on the coach with no loads, has kept the house and chassis around 12.5 with 100W of solar as the only input. But as I go out there now, had the frig on for about 5 days (upgraded cooling unit with a fan which I guess draws a lot of current I guess), my house batteries (Marine 12V s) are at 5V, WHAT? I assume the are junk or at least one of them.
ANYWAY, as for the subject here, the Trik-L-Start's "Maintain" light was on, chassis battery was still at 12.5. So the unit is only looking at the chassis. With your Amp-L-Start supposedly able to put 5A through to the chassis, your situation doesn't sound right. Without a current meter it would be hard to verify if the unit is not doing its job, but you would think if it was putting 5A through, your voltage would go higher.

Try reading to chassis voltage with and then without the unit would show something

e4services · 06-12-2018, 08:50 AM

SO, I went back out to check what happens to my rig based on voltages, since I have the dead batteries.
Remove the charger and the chassis showed 12.4V (house had bumped from 5V to 12.1, one battery has to be bad). Turn the charger back on and the chassis jumped to 12.7 with the house to 13.4.
So there you go, you should see a change in voltage on the chassis if the Amp- is working