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Old 03-16-2020, 01:38 PM   #41
Winnie-Wise
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G. View Post
Hmmmm ... what do you consider unsafe about using an adapter like this in order to plug a 30A RV's power cord into the 50A receptacle on a campsite pedestal?:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...language=en_US
I've discussed it repeatedly above. You are plugging in a cable that is smaller than the required gauge of cable specified for a 50 amp circuit breaker. If there is some sort of a short between the pedestal and the RV's circuit breaker, or if the RV's main breaker fails to trip when it should have, there could be a fire. If that short is inside the RV it will be an RV fire. If the short is outside the RV it could turn into a grass or forest fire.
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Old 03-16-2020, 07:12 PM   #42
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Anyone bought an 30A extension cord on amazon lately ?. in #10 gauge ?.
Lot's of stuff for sale that is questionable.

It's not a recommended best practice to essentially eliminate to breaker at the post.
Will your RV blow up, not likely, will your RV catch fire with this ? probably not but why risk it.

When it comes to power if you have to ask or not sure don't do it.

The 3 or 4 wires that carry most peoples power to their house or their RV is one of the most misunderstood things around. let's talk ground or generator bonding.

30A = 3600W @ 120V nominal power on a single phase in North America
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:00 PM   #43
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To play devil's advocate for just a moment: With our smaller TT, we're often shunted to the shorter or back-in slots. In those spots, the 30A receptacles tend to get a LOT more use than the 50A, and some of the 30's can look downright scary. I melted a perfectly good 30A plug on just such a scary receptacle. The 50A receptacle right next to it was in great shape.



The best solution might be to have a dogbone/adapter with a 30A inline fuse or breaker.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:43 PM   #44
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The best solution might be to have a dogbone/adapter with a 30A inline fuse or breaker.
That's what I proposed in post 37. I particularly like the first device because you could do it for about $60 plus the price of the cable (and I have a generator cable I made which I could shorten by the two feet necessary).
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:57 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Goodspike View Post
I've discussed it repeatedly above. You are plugging in a cable that is smaller than the required gauge of cable specified for a 50 amp circuit breaker. If there is some sort of a short between the pedestal and the RV's circuit breaker, or if the RV's main breaker fails to trip when it should have, there could be a fire. If that short is inside the RV it will be an RV fire. If the short is outside the RV it could turn into a grass or forest fire.
Right you are ... I finally get it ... even before my morning coffee.

As has been talked about already, I guess that the ultimate way to use the 50A receptacle with a 30A RV would be some simple 30A-fused fixture that could be inserted between the pedestal's 50A receptacle and the male plug end of the RV's 30A shore power cable.

I sure wish the above was available so that there were some way for a 30A RV to - with the highest safety - use a pedestal's 50A outlet as a backup power source.
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Old 03-17-2020, 11:23 AM   #46
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Most you you already have this. these type of units generally trip at about 125% of rated load
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:03 PM   #47
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Most you you already have this. these type of units generally trip at about 125% of rated load
Thanks for the Surge Guard photo above. I've read about that several times in the forums.

I guess that the inexpensive product I would like (instead of just the 30A-to-50A dogbone that I carry in the RV) is one with the upper connector in your photo being a 50A male connector and for the box to not contain surge guard circuitry - but instead just contain a 50A breaker inside.
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:08 PM   #48
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There is an additional consideration to using adapters. You add two additional interface connections to the system. There is a voltage drop albeit very small at every electrical connection. The voltage drop times the current draw squared is the heat that you feel at the plug. In other words it's never a good idea to plug a plug into a plug. The plug is designed to carry it's I squared R heat at maximum amps if it's in good shape. But additional friction electrical connections just adds more heat to the connection point. If you use a surge guard and an adapter you now have three sets of interface friction connections before the power even sees the camper and right there on the side of the camper is another one.

As a general rule think about not straying to far from hard wired thinking and don't plug plugs into plugs as a normal practice but reserve them for when you have no other way to get power.

This is my opinion.
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:32 PM   #49
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Most you you already have this. these type of units generally trip at about 125% of rated load
That would still be over 38 amps, but better than nothing. But do you have an example of such a product? My Hughes model does not make such a claim.
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:37 PM   #50
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The voltage drop times the current draw squared is the heat that you feel at the plug.
I have a plain old ordinary Eureka vacuum where the plug gets slightly warm at normal use. I use check the wattage that thing draws sometime.
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:51 PM   #51
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The commonly used Southwire (formerly TRW) 35530 and its portable equivalent 30 amp surge guard units do not have over-current protection.

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Old 03-17-2020, 02:00 PM   #52
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I contacted Underwriter's Labratory to see how the Camco device could possibly be approved by them. Short answer: It isn't. Here's their response:

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We have determined that this is not a UL Certified product. We have been in touch with the manufacturer and they are contacting Home Depot to take the reference to UL off their website.
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Old 03-17-2020, 02:25 PM   #53
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Goodspike, thanks very much for your efforts!!

Now ..... for CAMCO to come up with a UL Certified weatherproof 30A breaker version of their otherwise well-built and inexpensive 50A-to-30A dogbone solution.

I need a way around the sometimes worn out or inoperative 30A female receptacles ... but much better 50A female receptacles that are right beside each other in some dual service campsite pedestals.
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Old 03-17-2020, 02:39 PM   #54
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Goodspike, thanks very much for your efforts!!

Now ..... for CAMCO to come up with a UL Certified weatherproof 30A breaker version of their otherwise well-built and inexpensive 50A-to-30A dogbone solution..
Apparently this Hughes model, which cost 2x the price I paid, does shut off at too high of a current.

https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd30-epo/

There is a product manual you can download. Apparently you turn the power back on with your phone app. Here's what they said about it in an email.

Quote:
. The Power Watchdog + EPO units do have over current protection (drawing too many amps). So they do shut down for too low or too high of volts, and also too high of amps. If you get match your coach's amps with your EPO unit amps, then the PWD30-EPO would shut down if you pulled more than 30 amps while at a 50 amp pole.
I'm asking for clarification because they seemed to indicate it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Maybe because it doesn't have a 50 amp plug???
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Old 03-17-2020, 02:59 PM   #55
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50 to 30 amp adapters with 30 amp protection are available now on Granger and other sites as they are sometimes required for commercial work sites , they cost around $ 150.

Personally for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread, I will continue to be very comfortable using my current Camco 50 amp plug to 30 amp outlet dogbone. The scenarios that could occur that are being warned about by others in this thread are so near zero probability that for me the near zero risk is acceptable.
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Old 03-17-2020, 02:59 PM   #56
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These devices protect from over voltage the breaker protects over current. With 30amp service over voltage is very unlikely. With 50amp RV service any over voltage would be on one leg while the other leg would low voltage. This would be caused by a poorly connected natural wire in the pedestal.
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:17 PM   #57
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Apparently this Hughes model, which cost 2x the price I paid, does shut off at too high of a current.

https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd30-epo/

There is a product manual you can download. Apparently you turn the power back on with your phone app. Here's what they said about it in an email.

I'm asking for clarification because they seemed to indicate it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Maybe because it doesn't have a 50 amp plug???
Well ... that Hughes product is about $200 too much, and like you say ... it needs to be an "adapter" with a 50A male plug on the end that plugs into a pedestal and a 30A female receptacle on the other end that you plug your RV cable into.

We're probably talking about a whole new product that needs to be offered, if at all possible. I'm betting that the requirement of a small weatherproof box that contains a 30A circuit breaker wired inline within two short cable sections that have a 50A plug on one end and a 30A receptacle on the other end ... would be very difficult, or impossible, to get certified by UL.
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:19 PM   #58
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These devices protect from over voltage the breaker protects over current. With 30amp service over voltage is very unlikely. With 50amp RV service any over voltage would be on one leg while the other leg would low voltage. This would be caused by a poorly connected natural wire in the pedestal.
I'n not seeing why low voltage would be necessarily poor wiring as opposed to too much demand. I agree they could be different voltages. Interesting you mention this. I was reading the instructions on the 50 amp Hughes EPO unit and it checks for more wiring errors than the 30 amp unit.

It checks for neutral reversed on both legs, but also for a neutral missing. I assume the 30 amp connected by a 50 to 30 dog bone would catch any relevant wiring errors, but I'm still thinking that through.

Edit: Thinking about it further about the only thing I can see is the 50 could be wired incorrectly and the 30 correctly, or visa versa, so it should be tested whichever you connect to.
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:21 PM   #59
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50 to 30 amp adapters with 30 amp protection are available now on Granger and other sites as they are sometimes required for commercial work sites , they cost around $ 150.

Personally for the reasons I stated earlier in this thread, I will continue to be very comfortable using my current Camco 50 amp plug to 30 amp outlet dogbone. The scenarios that could occur that are being warned about by others in this thread are so near zero probability that for me the near zero risk is acceptable.
Thank you. I will check Granger.

As to probabilities, other than sticking a bobby clip into an outlet or doing the "penny challenge" just about all electrical issues are "near zero risk." It's not the percentage that is important, however, it's the consequences.
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:22 PM   #60
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Well ... that Hughes product is about $200 too much, and like you say ... it needs to be an "adapter" with a 50A male plug on the end that plugs into a pedestal and a 30A female receptacle on the other end that you plug your RV cable into.
I suggested to Hughes that they offer such a product--their Epo 50 with a 30 amp female plug. I even offered to test their prototype! ;-)
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