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Old 12-27-2021, 06:03 PM   #1
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2019 29ve: Access to Inverter Circuit under Dinette Bench

I have a Mod I wish to make.

Does anyone know the best way for me to get 110vac that is supplied by Inverter in the wood box area beneath my dinette bench?

In my 2019 Sunstar 29ve, I have Inverter supplied circuit in an overhead cabinet next to TV that is used to supply my main TV and Visio sounds bar. To this point ( 2 years) I have use a short extension cord that drops down from the cabinet temporarily; so I can additionally get power to my phone or laptops using the inverter. We use very little watts from inverter but it is big convenience.

I am wanting a better way to do versus dropping the wires down from overhead. There is 110vac receptacle that is directly below cabinet about head level that would be perfect; but Winnebago wired NOT USING the inverter circuit

So I got to thinking, it has been a while since I have screwed something up

What if I were to mount a dual receptacle in the wood directly under wooden bench? Think how you use to be able to plug in an airplane seat. All I would need to do is fine 110vac that is supplied by the Inverter and I am golden. But when I took the bench off, out of countless of gamillion wires, nothing stood out as 110vac from the inverter.
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:04 PM   #2
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I'm still chasing drawings now and then and might see something---or not!
Let me check if I'm right or totally off!
Does this look like what you have? Inverter in compartment low on the passenger side and to the rear with switch above it?

Looking at this drawing for the 110 AC:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000164057.pdf
Page 1

Where are you wanting the inverter outlet? In the dinette just above? Or am I not seeing where it's wanted?

Reason for asking is that it appears to say there is a connector in the compartment just above the inverter and switch which then leads to an outlet on the dinette?

No offense if you tell me I have that all screwed up!
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morich View Post
Does this look like what you have? Inverter in compartment low on the passenger side and to the rear with switch above it? Yes, but remote switch is on inside wall with all of the other control functions.

Looking at this drawing for the 110 AC:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000164057.pdf
Page 1

Where are you wanting the inverter outlet? See the green in the picture. If you are sitting on bench with your back to the wall and TV; I wish the outlet to on my lower right through the wood bench close to passenger side wall.

Reason for asking is that it appears to say there is a connector in the compartment just above the inverter and switch which then leads to an outlet on the dinette?
If you are saying those white connectors I have circled in Red are coming from the inverter, I may be in business. There is no Inverter Outlet near the dinette, but there is an outlet close to dinette. That is my problem, because that outlet is only hot when shorepower or genset is running.

It may be that if the connector you refer is actually from inverter, it may be the wire that feeds the main TV? It is above the dinette, but in a cabinet over the dinette. Today, I plug an extension cord into it and allow it to hang down with cabinet door open, it is kind of hassle and sight sore.

I can get any pictures you need for more clarity if required.

Updated Picture

1, Where I want to install new outlet
2. AC outlet that is NOT on Inverter Circuit
3. Where Inverter Switch is located
4. Arrow points to cabinet above (not pictured) where there is Inverter circuit above dinette but it is for Main TV
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Old 12-28-2021, 08:39 AM   #4
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Make more sense when I see it!

Maybe I confused things when I mentioned switch as I meant the switch at the inverter as shown on this drawing, not the inside switches you mention?

Some questions to check? What I see "looks" like the output off the inverter comes to those white connections that are buried in that stack of extra wire?
Does this fit what you find? I see it comes from inverter to switch in lower compartment then to those connectors in the compartment before splittingoff and going to the various outlets, one of them being "shown" as Dinette!

A couple thoughts. One is that IF that is true, there should be one outlet nearby already on the inverter, so maybe as check if any are on the inverter and which if you find it?
I do not have an inverter, so lack experience with chasing it on RV, so how do you find which is/is not on inverter? Disconnect RV from AC and turn inverter on to test if outlet works? Seems I might do that!

click these snips to get a better view of what I'm thinking?
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Old 12-28-2021, 09:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Morich View Post
Make more sense when I see it!

Maybe I confused things when I mentioned switch as I meant the switch at the inverter as shown on this drawing, not the inside switches you mention?

This is clear, the drawing you have is consistent with what I have.


Some questions to check? What I see "looks" like the output off the inverter comes to those white connections that are buried in that stack of extra wire?
Does this fit what you find?

I believe so; initially I was not sure if it was regular 110vac because of proximity to converter, but it seems to be based on drawing to be supply from Inverter?

I see it comes from inverter to switch in lower compartment then to those connectors in the compartment before splittingoff and going to the various outlets, one of them being "shown" as Dinette!

A couple thoughts. One is that IF that is true, there should be one outlet nearby already on the inverter, so maybe as check if any are on the inverter and which if you find it?

If you look at my picture in RED I have a #2 and a #4.

The #2 outlet is the closest that would be logically called Dinette, but is it not powered by Inverter. That is why I have the problem, I doubt Winnebago mis-wired it, but it a very convenient location but not convenient to use you have guest and traveling with no generator on

What you can't see is #4 which is overhead cabinet. It has outlet and it is supplied by by the Inverter. I guess it colud also be considered Dinette (area) but I think more of outlet for Main TV on the Wall.


I do not have an inverter, so lack experience with chasing it on RV, so how do you find which is/is not on inverter? Disconnect RV from AC and turn inverter on to test if outlet works? Seems I might do that!

click these snips to get a better view of what I'm thinking?
Yes, I am disconnected from Shore Power with no Genny running; I turn the Inverters Remote switch to on so I am running off the batteries for outlets that are fed through the Inverter.

My hope is to confirm one of those white wires buried in the compartment is hot through the inverter? If so; I wish to tap into it with my new receptacle that I mount in spot labeled #1.

That way if you are sitting at the dinette, you have a plug that is always hot for a laptop or phone.

We only have 1000w inverter but we use it all the time, never seem to go over 500w and I have yet to ever trip the breaker. Magnum Energy told me that their 2000w model is plug and play in my coach model from Winnebago if I ever needed more power.

I did some similar where I added a 2nd supply line for my Norcold fridge so when we are driving, it is always on the inverter now. No propane or genset needed to keep food / drinks cold.

Update:

I just went back out there and there are 3 of those white connectors in that compartment under dinette bench. I can't see anything that definitively tells they are on the inverter circuit. Worse, I could not see a easy way to remove the cover off one of the connectors to get access to wiring to put my voltmeter on. I don't wish to break the connector.

So it is like I may have to gamble and cut one lead that looks to be a feed to a downstream receptacle to verify and then put in a junction box; so I can add my new receptacle.

I don't know that Winnebago would help me to confirm? Although my best bet is learning how those connectors may open?

My worse case is to go ahead and mount my new receptacle where I want it with about 3 feet of wiring, and then just pay a dealer and hour to connect it to one of the inverter circuits. The good thing here is I get to use my Dremel tool !!!
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Old 12-28-2021, 10:00 AM   #6
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It looks like there are two of those connectors that come off the inverter switch. One labeled load and one utility. My guess is that the utility brings power in from the load center and the "load" is the output FROM the inverter, so one would want the second one---if found.

So is there any chance you might find a code on the wires as shown here? If one could find a code on any of the wires in the compartment, you might be able to match it to this code chart to find one that fits what you need?

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

I've found one can do a search through a PDF like this by hitting "ctrl" and "F" to bring a search box to put in a word to search.

There are 11 places in the chart where inverter is involved but none that jumps out as being the output, so they may call it something that I don't spot?

Never seen/dealt with that type connector. No help there.

One way to "cheat" a bit, rather than random cutting /repairing wires until finding the right one, is to use something like a needle to push through the insulation to make a test point for the meter? No sign of any bare wire if you look in the end of the connectors where the wire goes in so you might get contact with a thin wire on the meter?

Remember to get both shore and inverter turned off before trying that!!! Not wanting to see any puff of smoke from your direction!

EDIT:
Random handy thought might be if you had a "no contact" meter gizmo to sense inverter power without actually needing contact?? Something like this might b e handy but I've not used one.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Non-Cont...-316929926-_-N

Might be a time to try one out and return it if it doesn't work for what you want?
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Old 12-28-2021, 10:33 AM   #7
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I can't remember if you said to turn both shore and inverter turned on or off

The more I look at, I don't think the connectors in your drawing are the same connectors in the compartment.

The connectors in the drawing flow through the inverter's transfer switch that automatically senses if shore power is on to allow the current to flow through. If no current is on the input side and inverter is on, then it will generate power as the output. That is very nice auto transfer feature.

Besides the drawing only shows 2 connectors (Molex), and they are outside next to Inverter, and the transfer switch. I have 3 similar looking connectors buried under the wires in the compartment; but they are not the same. The compartment's are more like little white junction boxes.

To that point, if I can learn how to open one of then, I could probably just add my new receptacle wire into existing junction box? I will try to get a better picture of the junction box to see if I can get a Mfg name or part number.

I think these are all #6 wiring in white sleeve (Black, Neutral & Ground) so coding may not come into play.
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Old 12-28-2021, 11:28 AM   #8
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I thought to look at the parts drawing to see if there was info to id the connectors but ran straight into trouble with the idea as they show three outlet boxes mounted up close to the top of the lid, not what you have!
But I do see the things as 12 volt breakers not anything to do with 110, so forget that as well.

The drawings look like the connectors would have some form of snap-lock plastic latch to squeeze to release but I've already proved the drawings are not right!
They've pretty well left us guessing on too many small points.

Any of you other folks out there ever got into one of these connectors?
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Old 12-28-2021, 11:37 AM   #9
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Glad you reminded me, I do have a Voltage Test Pen

So when testing I pulled back some of the wiring protective covering and I could see Winnebago wiring codes

I confirmed Throw In Wire #2 and Throw in Wire #6 were Hot only when Inverter was turned on.

So If I get my own junction box, I should be able to splice into one of those. I think on the wiring diagram where it is saying Dinette; I believe it is referring to one of the 3 junction boxes in the Dinette compartment (not an actual Dinette receptacle)? But If I finish this mission I will have real Inverter supplied Dinette Receptacle.

I am thinking of cutting Throw in Wire #2 as it may be the most logical
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Old 12-28-2021, 11:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Morich View Post
I thought to look at the parts drawing to see if there was info to id the connectors but ran straight into trouble with the idea as they show three outlet boxes mounted up close to the top of the lid, not what you have!
But I do see the things as 12 volt breakers not anything to do with 110, so forget that as well.

The drawings look like the connectors would have some form of snap-lock plastic latch to squeeze to release but I've already proved the drawings are not right!
They've pretty well left us guessing on too many small points.

Any of you other folks out there ever got into one of these connectors?
For reference, I thought I had attached these pictures with post #7, but didn't.

If I don't learn of easy way to open to gain access, I will just buy a new junction box and cut Throw in wire #6?

Remember, these are NOT the same connectors you refer to in the drawing. I found the two in the drawing, and they are outside next to the inverter.

I believe these 3 are also in your drawing but labeled REP-B Dinette they are actually junction box, that I do not know how to open.
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Old 12-28-2021, 12:08 PM   #11
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Sounds like progress and those are just the regular romex, so feels goodto me, even when YOU have to do it!
But I might lean more toward the throw in 2, rather than 6. I've not found 6 to locate it but is the one which I had looked at as likely.
Part of my thinking is that if you could find throw in 2, it shows in detail A as coming from the inverter automatic switch and comes from the output connection there. Just not found what 6 does, but 2 looks good to me.

But that runs straight into the fact that you do not find an outlet near the dinette that works off the inverter? Or is the way they tell us it is "dinette" just confusing us as it is really the one up above the dinette?

If it is something you can check with the non-contact to see power on both 2 and 6, then I would say, your choice as both doing the same thing, just going to different outlets. Since you do not have a heavy load situation, either would seem to be the same. Something like a laptop or charger is not going to overload anything at all!
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Old 12-28-2021, 12:10 PM   #12
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Back up for a second....

OP: You said the inverter is in an overhead cabinet. That's not where the Winnebago installed inverter would be, as noted above. Is your inverter in the basement? I don't think you confirmed that.

Do you have a 30 or 50 amp coach, the wiring is different. But both have lots of outlets (8 or 9 of them) that are wired to the inverter (but not the one on the dinette wall). If you have the Winnebago inverter, might just need to plug into the right place.

I've attached the part of the drawing that shows what is powered by the inverter for a 50 amp coach. The 30 amp drawing is similar. There are also slight differences for early and later built coaches.
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Old 12-28-2021, 12:27 PM   #13
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Sounds like progress and those are just the regular romex, so feels goodto me, even when YOU have to do it!
But I might lean more toward the throw in 2, rather than 6. I've not found 6 to locate it but is the one which I had looked at as likely.
Part of my thinking is that if you could find throw in 2, it shows in detail A as coming from the inverter automatic switch and comes from the output connection there. Just not found what 6 does, but 2 looks good to me.

But that runs straight into the fact that you do not find an outlet near the dinette that works off the inverter? Or is the way they tell us it is "dinette" just confusing us as it is really the one up above the dinette?

If it is something you can check with the non-contact to see power on both 2 and 6, then I would say, your choice as both doing the same thing, just going to different outlets. Since you do not have a heavy load situation, either would seem to be the same. Something like a laptop or charger is not going to overload anything at all!
You are correct, Throw In #2 is most logical, I had a typo and I have corrected. Throw In #6 as well as others are down stream off Throw in #2 thus the junction boxes I keep referring to.

This picture shows Throw in #6 and why I believe Winnebago is actually referring to Dinette Junction box versus Dinette receptacle.

As they all draw from Inverter, it does not matter which I cut, may use the one that actually has the most play.
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Old 12-28-2021, 12:41 PM   #14
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Back up for a second....

OP: You said the inverter is in an overhead cabinet. That's not where the Winnebago installed inverter would be, as noted above. Is your inverter in the basement? I don't think you confirmed that.

Do you have a 30 or 50 amp coach, the wiring is different. But both have lots of outlets (8 or 9 of them) that are wired to the inverter (but not the one on the dinette wall). If you have the Winnebago inverter, might just need to plug into the right place.

I've attached the part of the drawing that shows what is powered by the inverter for a 50 amp coach. The 30 amp drawing is similar. There are also slight differences for early and later built coaches.
Thanks for the help.

I don't think I said " You said the inverter is in an overhead cabinet"?

If I did it was mistake, I would have been saying that the only inverter supplied receptacle in the area is in the overhead cabinet over the dinette.

That is what we have been using for two now with a extension cord dropped down from that cabinet. Today, I am wanting a mod to put in my own Inverter supplied receptacle in area where I wished Winnebago had done so. Beneath the bench at dinette table where your back is against the wall.

My inverter, inverter transfer switch, and two Molex connectors for utility & load are in basement.

I have 50 amp coach.

Yes I have a number of Inverter supplied receptacle but this is the 2nd on that I have needed to install myself.

Earlier I installed an option to plug my Norcold fridge to Inverter power which has been one of my best mods for about a year now. I only use it when driving to NOT need propane while driving.

I think it is big miss of Winnebago to have someone sitting at dinette without simple power to charge a phone or laptop, without having to go to another part of the coach.

Regards
Koldman
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Old 12-28-2021, 01:31 PM   #15
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I agree that RV things are somewhat slower to evolve and change as compared to house things, probably just due to the much smaller market and once they have a working model, the next year may get a few changes and maybe five years down the road most of the other things get changed. Kind of part of the world of electronics we see. Lots of Rv still have connections for CB radios!
My house was built by an electrician who was really into new stuff and wired it totally with Cat 5 and surround sound wiring only to find it all pretty much outdated.

But then you may be getting close to what you want---if I go way out in the guessing game!

This looks like boxes that have metal clips that hold a cover in place. First one has to get the box up and out to see by removing the screws. Then I think you will find a snap that can be pried loose with a screwdriver. However, once inside, I'm guessing you may find a gizmo you don't like very much as I'm guessing it is just a pair of blades where the wires are pressed down between two sharp edges without stripping, etc that require higher skill levels!

When you look at how little is holding the wires, you may want to do better or it may be okay to just keep it in mind as a potential trouble spot? If you have looked at any of the OEM outlets, you may have seen this system. It seems to work but it sure doesn't feel right for me.
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Old 12-28-2021, 03:41 PM   #16
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Merry Christmas MoMoney; I mean Morich

How much money you gonna save me Morich (aka Richard)

Mission Accomplished

Works like a champ, the DW is very happy. My pocket is very happy, I am hoping for a Happy New Year

I went with my own junction to distinct from Winnebago wiring. Eventually, I will call Winnebago so they can make a note of what I have done should I ever sell the coach.

We just got back from a trip and it was rare in that my wife set at dinette table the entire trip as my son had her usual captain's chair. She is use to her Inverter plug next to her front seat. So as workaround; I hung a strip extension cord from the Inverter supplied outlet in overhead cabinet, it worked, but is was messy looking.

I already had the RV / Marine style receptacle https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Group...a-903182245363 and all the tools (Dremel) I needed; so it only cost me $6. Btw, I did cut the Throw in Wire #2 as it has the longest point of ellipse when pulled toward the fixture.
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Old 12-28-2021, 04:32 PM   #17
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Gotcha. I'm so used to my inverter, like many Winnebagos, being on the overhead, I read right over you saying that there was an inverter circuit up there.

The Winnebago online info is great. Sure wish they hadn't stopped putting the 12 volt diagrams up a few years back. I know I have used mine many, many times.
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Old 12-28-2021, 05:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tderonne View Post
Gotcha. I'm so used to my inverter, like many Winnebagos, being on the overhead, I read right over you saying that there was an inverter circuit up there.

The Winnebago online info is great. Sure wish they hadn't stopped putting the 12 volt diagrams up a few years back. I know I have used mine many, many times.
I have only owned an RV a tad over 2 years now, and to me Winnebago & their Customer Service is beyond awesome. I spent two years fixated on buying another brand primarily because of low cost and perceived more bells and whistles. Basically just discounted Winnebago as something I could not afford. Despite all of the suggestions; buying a used RV was not the path I wanted to take, I wanted to experience it myself. The problems I was expecting; has never occurred (knock on wood), anything that happened ( all minor) Winnebago took care of, and I also have to credit both dealers I have worked over last two years, McClains - Rockwall & La Mesa RV in Port St Lucie. Both are awesome. By contrast what I read on some forums are just down right horror stories. Winnebago is more but it is well worth it. Can't tell you how many times I had or did not have something; and after a while I figured out why, or what Winnebago already knew.
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