2004 Winnebago Journey 34H House Batteries

bjboles · 12-09-2020, 02:02 PM

Plan on changing the house batteries in our coach in the spring. Currently has 3 - Interstate 27 series flooded cell. I think around 100ah each. So 150 usable. 1 of the 3 is on its way out. I was thinking of making the switch to 4 6v batteries in series then parallel. Should be able to get another 100+ usable AH with the the 4-6v vs. 3-12v.

1. Will they fit in the winnebago tray without modifications?
2. Any issues with this setup?

Phil-T · 12-09-2020, 03:44 PM

Need to measure the tray and look up the specs on the 6v batteries you want. Then you will likely have to come up with hold downs for the batteries.
I replaced the 2 12v house batteries with 4 6v - they just fit the tray and I had to make a hold down for them.

bjboles · 12-09-2020, 04:15 PM

Thanks PhilT. I would measure the tray but the coach is in storage. What coach do you have? How do you like the 6v setup?

Phil-T · 12-09-2020, 04:21 PM

It's a Vista 32k - The 6v setup has been great. No problems. I'm looking to upgrade this coach in the next few months, looking for a deal on high-end DP, maybe 5 years old. How do you like your Journey? Mechanical issues?

bjboles · 12-09-2020, 04:31 PM

We bought the journey 34H late August and didnt get to use it all that much. Cant wait for next year! So far only had to figure out some trailer wiring issues. Ride and handling is good. Power is impressive too! We are new to coach life so dont have a lot to bench mark.

imnprsd · 12-09-2020, 04:50 PM

My Itasca Horizon came with 3-12V House Batteries and then I changed them over to 4-6V-GC2-Golf Cart Batteries that I wired in series and parallel like you want to do.

If you battery tray is like mine, and I suspect it is, then here are some tips:

* The cheapest 6V-Golf Cart batteries I found at Costco, but Sam's Club sometimes offers these at $99. (No sales tax in OR and MT.)

* Only buy "newer" batteries if you can. They say these batteries start going dead the minute they are shipped to the consumer... and with my residential refrigerator putting demands on my inverter power (battery bank) I typically get 2.5-3 years of service and no more. However, this year I added a portable 17A Victron charger and mounted in my bedroom... and I now use this instead of the Dimensions Inverter/Charger when ever I have 3+ days of shore power. Meaning, I turn the Inverter/Charger off 99% of the time, and when I need a fast charge I will use it.

* I installed the Victron to get cell phone (bluetooth) monitoring and at $135 that would make a nice X-mas gift for any Dad! And I now use the Victron as a battery maintainer when my coach is in storage by just running the power cord out the bedroom window. (Easy, clean, and I hope the Victron charging algorithms will allow my house batteries to last at least 4+ years. TBD?)

* The 6-V batteries are slightly higher, so to avoid a short with your door frame: I recommend you put the negative terminals toward the back. I.e., if you put a positive terminal to the back it will be harder to reach and you can't disconnect it if you need to... when you put your RV in storage for example.

* I ordered 9" 2/0 battery cables on Amazon. I recommend 3-red and 1-black; and I recommend welding cables because they are more flexible and can handle more current vs. standard battery (stiff) cables.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F4GHKP2...ing=UTF8&psc=1

* If you buy Interstate batteries at Costco or Durcell 6V batteries at Sam's Club, you may find their 3/16" posts to be a tad short to bolt all the positive connections. To address this I ordered a 3/4"copper bar stock on Amazon and I made a battery extension plate. I think I cut it about 2" long and then I drilled two 3/16" holes in it. This way I was able to connect all my positive battery cables to the most diagonal battery posts.

https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Rectan...7557184&sr=8-5

* Alternatively, the price of LiFeO4 batteries are coming down. So this maybe the time to upgrade???? 4 new 6V-GC2 batteries will run $500-$550 and your 420AH is really only good for 210AH if you follow the 50% use rule; vs. Lithium Phosphate batteries that have far more cycles and will last 7-10 years (so they say).

* I have a residential refrigerator so half of my boondocking energy goes to power this beast. That said, FYI, I am thinking about keeping my 4-6V-GC2 batteries... connected to older Dimension quasi-sine inverter and then adding a second, dedicated power source to a LiFeO4 battery bank I build in the center of my basement and connect a 1500W-PSW-Inverter to power my refrigerator... and maybe an extra wall socket I add to power my computer or TV. This way half my available power on a PSW inverter will go to powering my refrigerator; and the other half (golf cart batteries) will go to powering the lights and my OEM battery management system as I will leave it unchanged... except for disconnecting the refrigerator and wiring it to the PSW inverter and LiFeO4 battery source.

I will have to see where I decide to boondock in 2021, because I see no reason to spend $2000 on this upgrade if I need to run my generator to power my AC. So I have not yet gone this route. If you do, please let us know how things work out for you?

A FEW MORE TIPS:

* I don't use the battery hold-down clamps. Instead I used wood spacers to take up the slack in the tray. (So shoot me!)

* With your batteries out of the tray, this is the time to clean your inverter fuse (300A on the Right Side wall) and your ground bar. These things are exposed to the element and rust up over 10+ years!

* Your Dimensions Inverter has a battery thermal probe that needs to be connected to a NEGATIVE battery post (not positive). This is very important, because if you connect it to a positive post you may find your inverter will not work and you can even damage the inverter board. (SO WATCH OUT FOR THIS.) ...But any negative post connection will work.

* To charge my house batteries off the alternator, since my 2004 Horizon did not come with a BIRD Relay or other charging circuit, I added a KeyLine VSR. This is a fantastic upgrade and it's been doing a great job for me ever since I bought my RV 5 years ago! They now make "knock offs" that should also work well for less, but I would still buy the KeyLine 140A VSR because you know they have qualified their Chinese vendors and for a few extra bucks it's cheap insurance, because these things connect your engine battery to your house battery and you don't want any troubles over time. (Engine positive post to house battery positive post only.)

Here's a few pictures of my 4-6V-GC2 batteries in the tray:

signet63 · 12-09-2020, 04:57 PM

Hello Bjboles,

I purchased my coach used a few years back and it had the 3 27 series house batteries in it. I destroyed those in my first few times out. I moved from a Tent Trailer to an Old diesel pusher. I have since learned a lot about batteries and electricity. I choose to go with the six volt golf cart batteries from Costco. I have 6 of those in my Motorhome now. I like to boondock and is why so much power. 630 amp hours total. I was unable to fit 4 in my battery bay, so I purchased a box to fit 6 in and have it in an adjacent compartment. When I kill these, I may go lithium with 3 battle born batteries. This will fit my old spot, but cost prohibitive at this time. I also fixed a few other things. For example I can now charge the house batteries driving down the road. Had to replace a relay thing for this to work. I also added a 3000 watt inverter, and I learned I can not access all the power with the 6 flooded batteries. I can run my Microwave but not much else. I pop a circuit when I try to run an air compressor. I think Lithium would resolve this issue.

That's my two cents.

Bill

bjboles · 12-09-2020, 05:20 PM

Thanks all!
Does the alternator charge the house batteries or only the starting batteries? Also, do you think the 4-6v setup is adequate for 11-14hrs? Draw would start around 6 PM. Propane fridge, few LED lights, inverter running LED TV and DVD player, cell chargers, water pump use. Generator would start at around 10/11 am.

al1florida · 12-09-2020, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjboles

Thanks all!
Does the alternator charge the house batteries or only the starting batteries? Also, do you think the 4-6v setup is adequate for 11-14hrs? Draw would start around 6 PM. Propane fridge, few LED lights, inverter running LED TV and DVD player, cell chargers, water pump use. Generator would start at around 10/11 am.

Four 6V batteries would run that small amount of power use for 2-3 days w/o needing to be recharged.

Be sure to turn off the inverter when not watching the TV. The inverter will pull 1-4 amps of 12V when turned on and not powering any 120V devices.

An LED TV pulls from about 2 to 5 amps of 12V DC power through the inverter.

The propane fridge, running on propane only, uses about 0.2 amps of 12V to operate the control board.

LED lights only pull 1 to maybe 2 amps of 12V depending on how many LEDs are in the light.

Cell phone chargers don't use much power, just get the little USB charger adapters that plug into the 12V outlets.

al1florida · 12-09-2020, 05:51 PM

If you are going to dry camp/boondock more than overnight or couple of days a few times a year you need to have a good battery monitor such as the Trimetric or Victron 712:

Best Battery Monitors for RV's, boats,off-grid cabins, vanlife

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B075RTSTKS

These monitors record the total number of AH (Amp Hours) discharged and equally important the number of AH going back into the batteries. The also show the SOC percentage (State Of Charge).

Without the monitor you really don't have a way to know the SOC of your batteries. Trying to use voltage to guesstimate the SOC does not work well.

imnprsd · 12-09-2020, 05:55 PM

Many of the older RVs do NOT have battery charging systems that charge the house batteries when you drive. These "battery isolator" circuits vary and some short out over time. If this coach is "new to you" you will find out very soon... after you first trip I would think.

The goal is to arrive at your camp spot with 100% SOC on your house batteries.

To know if your alternator is helping to charge your house batteries, you just need to check the voltage to your house batteries: A) When the engine is off; vs. B) When the engine is on.

A sitting battery will NEVER exceed 13V... and with your engine running you will see 13V+. Probably in the 13.7V range.

As for how long your house batteries last:

* Do you have a residential refrigerator? (You said no.)

* Do you have solar panels? (These only help a little, but are nice to have on sunny days.)

I have a residential frig and 400W of solar and I can go overnight on a strong set of 4-6V-GC2, but this is only on Day-1. Come Day-2 the SOC may say 100% after I charge them with my generator for 2-3 hours (while I run my house AC) but you can't trust that, because these SOC gauges and/or voltage readings off the chart below only apply to a battery "at rest". And when you use your inverter day-to-day... each day results in less true SOC. That said, you start out your first boondocking day at 100% SOC... then the true SOC drops to 90%... then 85%... then 80%. So each day you boondock your available AH is less.

* Lead acid batteries with vent caps need water (often in hotter weather) and they can leach out fumes that can set off your bedroom carbon monoxide alarm when your battery charger goes in to "recondition" mode. This is annoying and you can get around this by buying sealed AGM batteries, but these things are expensive.

* Soon we may see lithium batteries cost as much as AGM. TBD. ...Until then, I would say, if you plan to own your RV for 5+ years, then it makes a lot of sense to upgrade to LiFeO4 (200AH+) at today's prices... and makes a lot of sense if you need to replace your lead acid batteries anyway!

* If you do not have a residential refrigerator you should be able to get 1-2 days of what I would call "normal" RV use. (And maybe one or two microwave cycles.)

* To estimate your DC-AH use, you need to take your AC-Amps and multiply them by 10X. For example, a 1500W hair dryer will use 1500W/120V= 12.5A. This is a lot of current, just like a microwave uses, but you only use it for 5-minutes? So 12.5x10x1/12=10AH taken from your house batteries.

==> Now add up all your DC amp-hours and compare that to 50% of your rated house battery storage.

* Electric floor heaters are also power hogs so we only use these when connected to shore power.

* And if you get a heating blanket, then you need to find one of the old-style rotary dial types. These are compatible with your MSW or Quasi-sine inverter. I.e., if you use a digital display type controller (like 95% of all heated blankets are sold with today) then you run the risk of fire! So, find an old rotary dial control and you will be okay! (PSW inverters CAN use digital heating blankets.)

* I'm also including a diagram of my RV power grid that maybe very much like yours if you have 50A service? ...Keep in in your RV-Library as is will help you understand how everything works together.

al1florida · 12-10-2020, 04:44 AM

Bjboles, here are two very good articles about RV power systems:

First, basic 12V RV systems dealing with batteries, charging, power consumption, solar, etc.
The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
The 12volt Side of Life Part 2

Second, this one includes lots of detail about RV 120V AC power as well as 12V power.
http://www.rv-dreams.com/rv-electrical.html

While it will be helpful to read this info now, you will get a lot more out of the articles when you are using the RV again and can see and work with the systems in your RV while reviewing the articles.

bjboles · 12-10-2020, 06:19 AM

Thank you all for comments. Lots of great info here on making the swap to 6v. As much as I would like to buy lithium, its just not in the budget at this time. Thanks again everyone!

Morich · 12-10-2020, 08:13 AM

The question of whether the coach batteries are charged when driving is a frequent flyer as it seems so confusing and testing always seems to get a lot more difficult than it really is if we have a meter.

al1florida · 12-10-2020, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

The question of whether the coach batteries are charged when driving is a frequent flyer as it seems so confusing and testing always seems to get a lot more difficult than it really is if we have a meter.

That is exactly why you want to have a battery monitor like the Victron 712 or Trimetric. They show you exactly how much charge is in your batteries. No guess work involved.

AlexP · 12-13-2020, 05:52 PM

2004 Itasca Meridian 36G (essentially a Journey 36). Assuming your have same stuff.

The Kwikee tray is rated for 200 lbs. I put 4 6V Lifeline Agms in about 8 yrs ago. That's about 260 lbs, and 440 Ah or 220 usable. So far the tray hasn't fallen out. Agms don't need monthly maintenance and have liked that for all this time. Still a quarter to a third price of Lithium. CostCo is less.

Happy with the service I have gotten.
Alex

Morich · 12-13-2020, 07:25 PM

Unless you really see a need to get far more amps out of the batteries, the AGM at Wal-Mart seems to be a reasonable price currently at less than 150 for a four year battery if it fits your tray.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart...-CCA/841832089

Meanwhile did you do the testing to see if the coach batteries charge of the alternator?
If you have not, unplug from power for an hour or so, stick a meter on the coach batteries and look at the voltage before and after starting the RV engine. If the voltage jumps up when you start and rev the engine, it is charging them!

Journey39n · 12-13-2020, 11:32 PM

Just info for using 4 6v GC2. I converted my 2 12v to 4 6v in 2011, got 6 years service, always lots of power for a few nights. Now on my second set, working great. I do have them mounted on a 3/4" rubber pad, and tied down. I check the water once a month, rarely do I add more than 1/2 cup to all combined. Purchased both sets at Costco, 1st time they were $75 each, 2nd time they were $85 each. Other than wiring them in (series and parallel), the RV circuitry handles them with no changes.

al1florida · 12-14-2020, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

Unless you really see a need to get far more amps out of the batteries, the AGM at Wal-Mart seems to be a reasonable price currently at less than 150 for a four year battery if it fits your tray.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart...-CCA/841832089

Meanwhile did you do the testing to see if the coach batteries charge of the alternator?
If you have not, unplug from power for an hour or so, stick a meter on the coach batteries and look at the voltage before and after starting the RV engine. If the voltage jumps up when you start and rev the engine, it is charging them!

The battery in the link above is for a engine starting battery, not a deep cycle battery.

Engine starting batteries are not designed to be deeply discharged, they work best when they are discharged a few percent with a heavy load and then charged right back up.

al1florida · 12-14-2020, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey39n

Just info for using 4 6v GC2. I converted my 2 12v to 4 6v in 2011, got 6 years service, always lots of power for a few nights. Now on my second set, working great. I do have them mounted on a 3/4" rubber pad, and tied down. I check the water once a month, rarely do I add more than 1/2 cup to all combined. Purchased both sets at Costco, 1st time they were $75 each, 2nd time they were $85 each. Other than wiring them in (series and parallel), the RV circuitry handles them with no changes.

That is the perfect use of Lead Acid batteries. Boondock/dry camp for a few nights and then get them charged back up to 100%.

The lead acid batteries will last a very long time when used this way.

Also just as you did, find the least expensive flooded cell battery, such as at Costco or Sam's Club.