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Old 12-27-2020, 05:23 PM   #1
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2004 Winnebago DP Power Grid & Inverter Power Questions

The two pictures blow are the only two power panels in my coach, but I do not know if I labelled them correctly? I'm trying my best to understand my power grid, but I really could use some help verifying the methodology (method and madness) employed here?

Also, FYI, I do not have an Inverter Power Panel, and I do not have a 12V Power Converter.

I think my 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD power grid is typical of all Winnebago 50A wired DP coaches from ~1998 to ~2009 that incorporate a 2000W Dimensions Inverter-Charger.

In these pictures I have tried to accurately identify single breakers from dual breakers, and I color coded the ALTERNATING bus bars so to show which loads share Circuit #1 and which load share Circuit #2.

* Can someone please tell me how this power grid functions when I'm on 30A and Inverter Power? (Shares bus bars.)

* I know the inverter has an internal relay that passes 120V (Generator, Shore Power, or Inverter Power) to the Sub-main panel, but how does power get to the Main Panel from the inverter?

...Maybe that second black wire to the Main 50A Breaker in the picture is a "loop back" power wire that connects the Sub-Main Panel to only Circuit #2 in the main Power Panel? (Just a guess.)


* And then there is the EMS620 Power Shredder board... Does power go from the Sub-Panel to the EMS620 first and then to the Circuit #2-50A breaker?


* Is that Inverter-Charger circuit breaker always "hot" when I have my generator running or I'm plugged into shore power? ...And then the inverter automatically turns the charger off when sensing there is no power on the 30A-L1-Circuit #1?


* The inverter has 3-wires (red, white, ground) going to it and 3-wires going out? Where do they go?

* How does 12V power get from my battery to my 12V Power Panel? ...Remember, I do not have a Converter. So I think it comes off the battery disconnect switch?
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Old 12-27-2020, 07:35 PM   #2
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Step one is to note that RV wiring varies a whole bunch and what fits for one doesn't always fit for another! That means we often have to look to see what each RV has and how power gets from here to there.

Yes, as long as there is power to the 50 amp breakers, the sub feeds like the inverter will also be hot as they are on the same bus bar. Clicking the inverter/charger breaker will stop both inverter and charging.

Quote:
* How does 12V power get from my battery to my 12V Power Panel? ...Remember, I do not have a Converter. So I think it comes off the battery disconnect switch?

Correct, one would not expect to have both a converter and charger as they do the same thing. They use AC to make DC.

I did not chase it back too far but on your RV, there are two feeds to the 12 breakers, labeled J and K, both being 6 gauge black wires. One way to tell which wire feeds into a panel and which are feeding out is to look at the wire size and big wires always feed small wires!
So J and K come in from the chassis breakers and feed the 12 volt panel where it breaks down to lots of smaller wires to feed power out to much of your coach 12VDC circuits.
This is from the 12VDC wiring on sheet 2 frame 3 and about where "D" and "20" would cross (near the center top?) One would need to chase it back further to the chassis drawings to find how it gets to this point.

Use this wire ID chart to decode for individual wires:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf
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Old 12-27-2020, 08:13 PM   #3
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Morich: I see that the Triangle #6 in my schematic is for the 12V Chassis Breakers located by my front wheel. These are for my chassis loads.

Also, I don't think my Inverter-charger produces 12V, because I have taken my Dimensions Inverter/Charger out of the coach and I did not disconnect any battery cables except those that go to from the inverter to the charger.

Further, if I can turn the Dimensions Charger function "off" from inside the RV, then where is my 12V House Breaker Panel getting its voltage from? (See picture below.)

I would think this is that Triangle #7 in my schematic... on the other side of the Battery Disconnect Solenoid, gets 12V direct from the battery and not the inverter... and feeds the 12V House Breaker Panel. Is this correct? IDK
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:11 PM   #4
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imprsd,
Your coach is darned similar to ours. Ours being an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP. In the photo below, you see the entire layout of the foot of our bed, where all (well, almost all) the electrical breaker panels and circuit breakers are. I have more in the left front outside compartment.

But, the brown plastic, smaller 120VAC panel, that you call a "sub panel", is my INVERTER breaker panel, that you see at the far right in the picture.

In case you didn't know it, at the bottom of your main breaker panel is your EMS or, Electrical Management System. Otherwise known as a "load shedder" in other applications. In my recent adventure of installing a residential fridge, I did some goofing around with the wiring in both the main panel and Inverter panel, to allow me to have 120VAC at my fridge plug, when I was on Inverter only.

But, that smaller panel is definitely my inverter breaker panel. Sure looks identical to yours.
Scott

P.S. Sorry for the sideways pic. Every single time I take a pic with that dumb-a$$ phone, and post it on here, the pic turns SIDEWAYS! I hate that I-phone. Anyway, if you rotate your computer or, at least think about rotating that pic clockwise 90 degrees, you'll see that smaller brown plastic faced Inverter panel would be on the far right.
Scott
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:41 PM   #5
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As I read the drawing for your RV? They made it as difficult as possible to read as they do not ID things but label them as "isolated stud" as well as changing the numbering from sheet 1 to sheet 7 to sheet 2! Numbering on the triangles but differing on different pages!
First attached snip is from sheet 1, where I see the coach batteries at left top with both negative and positive cables from the inverter charger and I marked what I think happens on the coach power in green.

Power from charging normally comes in to battery positive but also connects on to the solenoid which they call different names at different times and RV (Mode, aux start or boost?) but the same operation under different names!

If we think of RV battery flow as somewhat like a tree trunk, it comes from the bottom on heavy stuff and gets smaller and smaller as it goes out on the limbs?
Your 3/0 gauge is never fed by the 14 gauge so we know which way it goes!
The 3/0 meets a 16 for circuit GJ which we can look at the Wire ID chart to see it feeds only the full time CO2 detector, etc which is left on when the disconnect is opened.

But the power switched by the disconnect switch connects through and feeds two 55 amp breakers, much more power and feeds most everything else in the coach system. They "could" have made it more clear but instead they refer to page 7 with the notes! In other words two black 6 gauge come off the solenoid (at 7?) and connect to the breakers (at 7?) Just throwing curve balls?

But if we chase triangle note 6 we see it gets us to the 12Volt breakers on sheet 2 frame 3 at top center under number 20. On that page they called the two breakers "chassis breakers" but I might see them as "coach breakers" as I see them feeding mostly coach items like interior lights!

But the blue is what I see for getting the coach battery and start battery together at the solenoid.
The isolated stud has start battery on it like this:
Chassis battery to isolated stud in battery compartment- to one side of solenoid, connecting to cable to isolated stud in front left compartment.

Small wires MG and LR are ground and battery from the boost switch to close the solenoid, either when the engine runs or the boost switch is pushed.
Likewise with LG and LH for the disconnect switch. LJ may be the light on the switch???

So if you are asking where the power comes from when you disconnect the charger, it would be coming from the batteries, as I see it.
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Old 01-02-2021, 04:09 PM   #6
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A small note that you may have all figured is the way the drawings show the breaker panels from the backside while we more often are looking at the front side and that can lead to lots of confusion.
Note how the picture in post 3 shows a panel labeled "house 12v circuit breakers" with the top breaker that is third from the RIGHT is empty?
Then in my last picture above, the drawing shows the top breaker third from the LEFT is empty.
That is because we have to mentally turn one or the other around to get the same info.

To verify that you have the same info but looking from different directions, you may note that the bottom second from LEFT is labeled sofa and 25 amp but the drawing shows the second from RIGHT as feeding circuit EEC??? So a look at the wire ID chart shows circuit/wire EEC is shown to go from a breaker to a sofa switch!

This is not consistent across all drawings so it takes a bit of looking/checking to see what the correct route might be.
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Old 01-02-2021, 04:39 PM   #7
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Looking further, I tend to agree with Fireup and call that panel the inverter panel as they match better.

And that is where things get hard to follow because this drawing is from the front as we view it!

A 30 with 5 15 amps to the right both on the drawing and how we look at it!
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:31 PM   #8
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Thank you both for helping me trace these schematics. Here are my remaining questions:

* Where are those 55A-12V breaker-fuses located?

...I don't have any in my bedroom so are you saying they run 12V from the BDS all the way to the chassis breaker box in front of the driver's side tire... and then then back to the 12V circuit panel in the bedroom? ...Really???

* Is the the correct order of my power grid? For example:

* After the transfer switch is both L1 and L2 sent direct to the Main Panel?

* Then is only L2 sent to the inverter transfer switch/relay... and then where does the Inverter out power wire go?

A) Does it go to the "line-in" to the Inverter Sub-Panel, as shown in the picture below? Or...

B) Does it go to the EMS620 board and then to the Inverter Sub-panel?

And just to clarify the function of the 2 Inverter Breakers:

* Is the Main Panel Inverter Breaker a "line-out" to the inverter?

* Is the Sub-main Panel Inverter Breaker a "line-in"?
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:54 AM   #9
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Thanks for letting me know all those "Triangles" referred to in Winnebago Wiring Diagrams point to page numbers. So with this information I was able to find the key wiring diagrams that answer all my power grid questions.

These pictures will explain a typical DP-50A-120V and 12V Power Grid to all of you better than I possibly could. So now I finally understand how my RV POWER GRID WORKS!

* I also included my Starter Motor Circuit

* Details about my Parallax ATS-5070.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:19 PM   #10
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Wow,
Those are NEAT drawings/schematics! Even I can almost understand them, and that ain't easy for this old warped brain of mine. Thanks for linking them.
Scott
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:31 PM   #11
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You know, I have owned my coach for 5 years and I never never been able to connect all the dots when it comes to understanding how my 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD Power Grid works. Now I can.

ATS REPAIR?

The Automatic Transfer Switch is made by Parallax, and the model many of us use is the ATS-5070. So if anyone out there has overhauled their ATS-5070 and can tell us where we can buy replacement components that would really be helpful, because as our fleet ages, and the more often owner plug into low voltage shore power source, I think more owners will find their ATS will fail.

Components should not be that hard to replace and should not cost that much. So finding a second source is worth keeping an eye out for!

BASEMENT AC OVERHAUL TIPS (Digging In Deeper!)

This is a referral to a few threads about how to service your Basement AC. In both cases you can jump to the end of the thread to copy very important wire diagrams and parts list summary for your basement AC:

Poorman's Hard Start Kit Service ($22-$65 Service - Very easy to do!)
(When was the last time you checked your Start and Run Capacitor Values? If it's been more than 5 years you should make this a priority service that only takes 1 hour to do.)

* https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...de-359467.html

Coleman-Mach 6537-671 (2-Ton Basement AC) uses the same parts as my 6535-671 Basement AC:

* https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...-a-359477.html
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Old 01-06-2021, 04:38 AM   #12
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imnprsd-

I applaud your determination to discover and document the 120V and 12V wiring in your coach.

One of your diagrams seems to show a little uncertainty around the BAT BOOST activation circuit "LR." If that is the case, you can clear up the uncertainty by tracing "LR" through these three diagrams:

Body, 12V Wiring Diagram
Automotive Wiring Diagram
Front End Wiring Installation

The last will show you which circuit breakers supply house ("LS") and chassis battery bank ("JJX") 12V to the BATT BOOST switch.
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Old 01-06-2021, 04:54 PM   #13
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l1v3fr33ord1: Thank you. I created my diagrams after doing my best to trace these same schematics you sent, and I used the attached Winnebago Wire Code Label List to help me understand the low voltage wires to the BDS Solenoid and the Boost Solenoid. Did I make a mistake?

Note: For those of you who don't know, your Winnebago wires have codes printed on them; and with the attached Wire Code Label List you then can find out where that wire goes. ...I got this from another forum member, thank you very much!

To make any changes to the Diagrams (.jpg file)... can I ask that you to install MS-Paint or MS-Paint 3D and make any edits you like? (I like MS-Paint better.)

Note: MS-Paint is a basic drawing program that is easy to use and is already included with your PC software. Further, I use this program all the time to edit the pictures you see above.

For more information about MS-Paint:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...9-4ed8115f9aa9

And to capture pictures off my computer screen I use another free program called Gadwin Print Screen. (Note: I like the older versions (4.6v), because this version is easier to use in my opinion.) This is the 32-bit version, but it runs fine on your newer machine. This link will also give you different version choices, but it's a great program you can use to capture any portion of a picture you pull-up on your computer screen. TIP: Play with the settings after you install it to suit your needs and where you store your captured immage.

Gadwin Print Screen

https://gadwin-printscreen.en.uptodo...ndows/versions

See attached: Wire Code Label List
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
The two pictures blow are the only two power panels in my coach, but I do not know if I labelled them correctly? I'm trying my best to understand my power grid, but I really could use some help verifying the methodology (method and madness) employed here?

Also, FYI, I do not have an Inverter Power Panel, and I do not have a 12V Power Converter.

I think my 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD power grid is typical of all Winnebago 50A wired DP coaches from ~1998 to ~2009 that incorporate a 2000W Dimensions Inverter-Charger.

In these pictures I have tried to accurately identify single breakers from dual breakers, and I color coded the ALTERNATING bus bars so to show which loads share Circuit #1 and which load share Circuit #2.

* Can someone please tell me how this power grid functions when I'm on 30A and Inverter Power? (Shares bus bars.)

* I know the inverter has an internal relay that passes 120V (Generator, Shore Power, or Inverter Power) to the Sub-main panel, but how does power get to the Main Panel from the inverter?

...Maybe that second black wire to the Main 50A Breaker in the picture is a "loop back" power wire that connects the Sub-Main Panel to only Circuit #2 in the main Power Panel? (Just a guess.)


* And then there is the EMS620 Power Shredder board... Does power go from the Sub-Panel to the EMS620 first and then to the Circuit #2-50A breaker?


* Is that Inverter-Charger circuit breaker always "hot" when I have my generator running or I'm plugged into shore power? ...And then the inverter automatically turns the charger off when sensing there is no power on the 30A-L1-Circuit #1?


* The inverter has 3-wires (red, white, ground) going to it and 3-wires going out? Where do they go?

* How does 12V power get from my battery to my 12V Power Panel? ...Remember, I do not have a Converter. So I think it comes off the battery disconnect switch?
I think in terms of K.I.S.S. Keep it simply simple.
Your grid (pedestal) power is 50A service. This means when you are plugged into the shore power the L1 & L2 of your service panel are hot from the shore feed. A/C 1 is on one and A/C 2 is on the other. Your load center does not have many circuits. (https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_145021.pdf)
I can see your confusion. It almost looks like the 30A inverter breaker is connected to both buses. I have not seen this in Winnebago. Usually it is only on one 30A leg and is a 120V inverter. This is more likely the case and the 30A breaker is full frame build. Lets go with it being a 120V inverter at 30A.
When on shore power, the inverter is a charger for the batteries. AC to the inverter is converted into DC for charging the batteries. When shore power is gone, the transfer switch now places the inverter onto the service panel, isolating the shore power, and provides 30A of AC to one side (bus) of the service panel.

When on generator the transfer switch provides 2 120V in phase feeds to the service panel. You do not have the possibility of 240V from the generator if the neutral is lost. Each 120V feed from the generator has a dedicated neutral. The inverter functions as it did on shore power. You do not have 50A/leg as with shore power. This is limited to the size of the output breaker of your generator.

I can't think of any other way of explaining this. In the newer coaches the inverter sub panel is a part of the main service panel. The Energy Management System sheds loads to prevent circuit breaker tripping.

Note: If you have a way of setting the current input for your inverter I advise doing so. When on GEN or 30A shore power I set my inverter to 5A. This is enough to keep the batteries charged and still be able to run loads. When on 50A service I set up to 15A. The charger has enough power to give my batteries a good charge routine.
I hope I have not muddied the waters here.
Happy Trails and many of them.
Rick Y
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:36 PM   #15
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jerichorick: You sited an old post dated 12/27/2020 and these questions were answered, albeit I appreciate your efforts to clarify things.

The diagram above only shows one Line into the Inverter. And yes I can reduce the charger current when I have 120V power. In fact, I always do reduce the amp output when I charge my house batteries when I am camped with shore power for 3+ days.

10A-15A of charging current is plenty unless you need a rapid charge like when you are boondocking and are using the generator to charge the batteries.

"l1v3fr33ord1" questions have more to do with the control (switched) wires to the solenoid.

Winnebago does not connect all the dots when it comes to diagraming 12V power. So the purpose of providing to a Wire Code List is so other owners know there is a List... and that if they identify any wirec code in their RV, then they can look at the list to know what that wire is for. ...And secondarily, most people do not know know this list exists so I included it.

KIS is fine, but I would bet most people think my 12V power comes from a Converter, and I can guarantee you this: My RV and many from DPs from Winnebago DO NOT come with a Converter!!!

At this point I don't think we need more explanations on how my Power Grid works. However, if I made any mistakes in the diagrams I have submitted, let's talk about them specifically, because at this point I think I got it 99% right.

PS
There is no such thing as 30A power at the shore power box. L1=50A and L2=50A; but I'm sure there are a lot of people who will disagree with me, because they too follow the KIS-method.

STILL LOOKING FOR ANSWERS RE: ATS REPAIR?

The Automatic Transfer Switch is made by Parallax, and the model many of us use is the ATS-5070. So if anyone out there has overhauled their ATS-5070 and can tell us where we can buy replacement components that would really be helpful, because as our fleet ages, and the more often owner plug into low voltage shore power source, I think more owners will find their ATS will fail.

Components should not be that hard to replace and should not cost that much. So finding a second source is worth keeping an eye out for!
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Old 01-07-2021, 02:40 PM   #16
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imnprsd, I don't understand what you mean here: "PS
There is no such thing as 30A power at the shore power box. L1=50A and L2=50A; but I'm sure there are a lot of people who will disagree with me, because they too follow the KIS-method."
30A/120V service is very common at older campgrounds. Many electricians have been hired to install a 30A RV service at a stick & brick. To the sadness of the owner the electrician forgets that RV's are 120V and wire in a 240V outlet.
The Parallax ATS 5070: http://techsupport.pdxrvwholesale.co...ator-Guide.pdf
I don't know if how the relays are mounted. If you read the spec on the relays it should give you enough info to find a spare on line.
Here are some Amazon.com choices for replacements. https://smile.amazon.com/Technology-...054610&sr=8-22
I have had ATS failures. I did a temporary bypass of the ATS until the replacement arrived.
FYI: I have wired a plug and receptacle pair to the in and out of the ATS. I can bypass it in just a few moments this way.
I have installed a Auto Transformer in the power bay. This helps to avoid brownout conditions to a greater degree.
About "converters". Most class A rigs use inverters to the best of my knowledge. This gives us a few AC outlets and the microwave when we are dry docking or in a power outage. A converter is a fancy name for a battery charger. Feel free to correct me here if I am wrong.

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Old 01-08-2021, 12:22 AM   #17
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Here's my way of think about this subject:

You have 2 single phase power wires at the shore power post. L1=50A and L2=50A. These wires go to your ATS and then to your power panel, where you will find a 50A main breaker, that feeds a 30A inverter breaker and lot of other 20A and 15A breakers.

Each breaker limits & protects the current to the load. So a 15A line is limited to 15A or the breaker will trip. ...At least it is supposed to.

There are no breakers on the Neutral (return) line, but as I found out, your AST needs to handle at least 70A on the Neutral return line and to do this they "bond" the White Neutral Wire to Ground inside the ATS box.

And when you plug into 30A service at the shore power pole, the connection is really 50A. We just call it 30A because once again your EMS sense just one line and then the EMS will monitor and shed power to protect the line.

RVs with 30A only service have smaller gauge wires and come with a 30A receptacle. ...But all this is "conventional" thinking based on "standards" that are supposed to be followed, but sometime are not.

RVs with a 50A service that plug in to 30A shore power use a "Dog-Bone" to join L1-L2. (See picture below.)

Wire gauges are also a "give away" to identifying max current to any one load. I.e., 14gauge is supposed to be only used with a 15A breaker, and 12 gauge is supposed to be paired with a 20A breaker, but sometime people do crazy things and fires can start.

* I see your coach is a 2011. Do you have a Converter? Maybe you do. However, I am fairly certain 2009 and older DP Winnebago's do NOT come with a Converter and for years people have just accepted what other owners have told them. Of course, they have never seen their Converter, because it does not exist. But that doesn't stop people from believing one exists.

PS
The transformer on the power pool sends two 50A "hot" wires to the house. If the RV park only chooses to only provide 30A service, it's probably because they run one 50A line to the right side of the park and the other 50A line to the other side of the park. ...Or maybe they alternate Odd camp sites with Even camp sites? ...Either way, when the RV Park only provides a 30A female plug they are limiting the service to 30A male plug, but it's still a 50A line-in (L1 or L2).

I hope I did a good job explaining this. If there is a licensed electrician out there who can correct any thing I said, that would be appreciated!
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
Here's my way of think about this subject:

You have 2 single phase power wires at the shore power post. L1=50A and L2=50A. These wires go to your ATS and then to your power panel, where you will find a 50A main breaker, that feeds a 30A inverter breaker and lot of other 20A and 15A breakers.

Each breaker limits & protects the current to the load. So a 15A line is limited to 15A or the breaker will trip. ...At least it is supposed to.

There are no breakers on the Neutral (return) line, but as I found out, your AST needs to handle at least 70A on the Neutral return line and to do this they "bond" the White Neutral Wire to Ground inside the ATS box.

And when you plug into 30A service at the shore power pole, the connection is really 50A. We just call it 30A because once again your EMS sense just one line and then the EMS will monitor and shed power to protect the line.

RVs with 30A only service have smaller gauge wires and come with a 30A receptacle. ...But all this is "conventional" thinking based on "standards" that are supposed to be followed, but sometime are not.

RVs with a 50A service that plug in to 30A shore power use a "Dog-Bone" to join L1-L2. (See picture below.)

Wire gauges are also a "give away" to identifying max current to any one load. I.e., 14gauge is supposed to be only used with a 15A breaker, and 12 gauge is supposed to be paired with a 20A breaker, but sometime people do crazy things and fires can start.

* I see your coach is a 2011. Do you have a Converter? Maybe you do. However, I am fairly certain 2009 and older DP Winnebago's do NOT come with a Converter and for years people have just accepted what other owners have told them. Of course, they have never seen their Converter, because it does not exist. But that doesn't stop people from believing one exists.

PS
The transformer on the power pool sends two 50A "hot" wires to the house. If the RV park only chooses to only provide 30A service, it's probably because they run one 50A line to the right side of the park and the other 50A line to the other side of the park. ...Or maybe they alternate Odd camp sites with Even camp sites? ...Either way, when the RV Park only provides a 30A female plug they are limiting the service to 30A male plug, but it's still a 50A line-in (L1 or L2).

I hope I did a good job explaining this. If there is a licensed electrician out there who can correct any thing I said, that would be appreciated!
Some of what you understand here is correct. What I have highlight in color is in error. I am 75+ years old. I have been dealing with design and installation of AC power most of my adult life. I am telling you this to try to gain your confidence in my understanding and teachings to you. I see that you truly wish to understand what is going on with powering your RV.
Please be clear about 30A vs 50A service. A 30A pedestal outlet is just that. 30A is all that is available on one leg and one neutral, 120V only at 30A max.

A 50A pedestal outlet is 2 x 50A legs or an available total current of 100A or 50A x 2. Measuring the voltage between L1 & L2 will read ~240V. From L1 OR L2 to Neutral will read ~120V.
The transformer on the pole feeds the main breaker of the main service panel in your home or in a RV park. If you have a RV feed, it is feed from a single 30A or double 50A breaker to the appropriate style RV outlet. A 30A RV feed is on 10AWG copper (black/white/green or bare) and a 50A RV feed is on #6AWG copper wire (black/red/white/green or bare). Note: If aluminum wire is used the size must be increased.
I hope this helps to clear up your miss understandings. I have installed many of these services quite successfully over the many years I have been RVing and volunteering. I am very confident in what I have presented to you here and offer it freely with the hopes you will gain practical knowledge that you my apply some day.
One more note about wiring. It is imperative to understand that RV parks are designed for power loss over distance. A 3% loss is all that a good design will allow and may be all the the NEMA code will permit. The above wire sizes I used are for short runs of 50' or so. I used these sizes for my simple examples.
Rick Y

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Servants On Wheels Ever Ready. Best job we ever paid to do . (full time volunteers)
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:46 PM   #19
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jerichorick: No worries. Thanks for contributing.

When we talk about "power service" everything is supposed to be "sized" accordingly.

I should have said, than when you have 50A shore power service, then L1 and L2 are booth 50A. And when you use a "dog-bone" to connect to a 30A plug, it joins L1 & L2 together to your RV.

I should have clarified this as well: L1 and L2 to your RV should not be confused with the power service provided. (After all, L1 and L2 to your RV are just wires.)

...And since you cannot see what's behind the shore power 30A plug, you really don't know if the power service is capable of delivering more amps, and I bet it is.

These are all minor points when it comes to comparing 30A service to 50A service. More important is the line voltage that can only degrade after it leaves the power pole. And yes, I understand a number of people use the Hughes Autoformer to deal with these problems in older RV parks and/or problem power service areas.

Here's something I found that is interesting:

The use of fuse panels and circuit breaker panels for residential wiring follows a historical pattern:

30-amp fuse panel: Installed before 1950, these service panels provide only 120-volt current. Such a service provides insufficient power for modern usage and generally needs to be updated.

60-amp fuse panel: Installed from 1950 to about 1965, 60-amp fuse panels provide 240-volts of power, but are still insufficient for most homes. An update is usually needed.

Circuit breaker panel: Since the early 1960s, homes have generally been wired with circuit breaker panels that provide 240-volt current. Early services may provide 60-amps of power, while large houses built today may have 200 amps or more of power.

Homes with 60-amp or 100-amp service often require an electrical service update during major remodeling or expansion projects.
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
jerichorick: No worries. Thanks for contributing.

When we talk about "power service" everything is supposed to be "sized" accordingly.

I should have said, than when you have 50A shore power service, then L1 and L2 are booth 50A. And when you use a "dog-bone" to connect to a 30A plug, it joins L1 & L2 together to your RV.

I should have clarified this as well: L1 and L2 to your RV should not be confused with the power service provided. (After all, L1 and L2 to your RV are just wires.)

...And since you cannot see what's behind the shore power 30A plug, you really don't know if the power service is capable of delivering more amps, and I bet it is.

These are all minor points when it comes to comparing 30A service to 50A service. More important is the line voltage that can only degrade after it leaves the power pole. And yes, I understand a number of people use the Hughes Autoformer to deal with these problems in older RV parks and/or problem power service areas.

Here's something I found that is interesting:

The use of fuse panels and circuit breaker panels for residential wiring follows a historical pattern:

30-amp fuse panel: Installed before 1950, these service panels provide only 120-volt current. Such a service provides insufficient power for modern usage and generally needs to be updated.

60-amp fuse panel: Installed from 1950 to about 1965, 60-amp fuse panels provide 240-volts of power, but are still insufficient for most homes. An update is usually needed.

Circuit breaker panel: Since the early 1960s, homes have generally been wired with circuit breaker panels that provide 240-volt current. Early services may provide 60-amps of power, while large houses built today may have 200 amps or more of power.

Homes with 60-amp or 100-amp service often require an electrical service update during major remodeling or expansion projects.
We agree here. I have seen too many post over the years that say a dog bone gives the rig 2 30A services to a 50A RV power panel. This is what I was reading in your post. Thanks for correcting that.
I am one of those who had to update my house from 60A fuses to a 200A breaker panel. Did this when I added to the house. Installed a manual transfer switch and generator inlet too boot. Didn't want to go without water when the power went out, or heat and fridge. On occasion I run into tube and knob wiring. That's fun to work with.
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Servants On Wheels Ever Ready. Best job we ever paid to do . (full time volunteers)
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