15 amp GFI Shore power for storage

DNLRV · 12-26-2015, 09:53 AM

After 9 years on the road we are storing our 2012 Itasca Ellipse for the first time. The storage facility has a 15 amp GFI outlet. When I plug into the outlet everything seems fine. However when I went back to check on the coach after several days the GFI popped. I have tried turning off circuit breakers inside the coach but have found that I need to leave the coach batteries switch on in order to charge the batteries. I have switched to 20amp inside the coach but that doesn't help either.
I am currently using an automatic battery charger and have not had any problems and seems to keep the batteries charged.

palehorse89 · 12-26-2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNLRV

After 9 years on the road we are storing our 2012 Itasca Ellipse for the first time. The storage facility has a 15 amp GFI outlet. When I plug into the outlet everything seems fine. However when I went back to check on the coach after several days the GFI popped. I have tried turning off circuit breakers inside the coach but have found that I need to leave the coach batteries switch on in order to charge the batteries. I have switched to 20amp inside the coach but that doesn't help either.
I am currently using an automatic battery charger and have not had any problems and seems to keep the batteries charged.

Ask the owners if they will install a regular outlet, Non-GFCI. Your problems will end.

Skip426 · 12-26-2015, 10:04 AM

My first two RV's would work on a GFIC outlet without tripping; my last three would not.
If the facility will not change the outlet then stick with the auto charger, very possible the auto charger will be easier on the batteries than the on board set up.

jerichorick · 12-26-2015, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNLRV

After 9 years on the road we are storing our 2012 Itasca Ellipse for the first time. The storage facility has a 15 amp GFI outlet. When I plug into the outlet everything seems fine. However when I went back to check on the coach after several days the GFI popped. I have tried turning off circuit breakers inside the coach but have found that I need to leave the coach batteries switch on in order to charge the batteries. I have switched to 20amp inside the coach but that doesn't help either.
I am currently using an automatic battery charger and have not had any problems and seems to keep the batteries charged.

New GFCI outlets are less susceptible to phantom tripping than the older ones. The down side, as I have been told, is they have a 10 year life. After that they stop working by design.

I hope the storage facility will accommodate you and install a new GFCI. Great and cheap advertising.

If you have a good inverter you should be able to reduce the charging rate. That might help. I am now on 30A shore power and I have set my inverter to a 10% charge rate for better power sharing in the coach.

Happy trails. I hope storage was a good choice this year and not a required one.

Rick Y

nothermark · 12-26-2015, 11:40 AM

I replaced the in line GFI in one of my outdoor circuits with a pair of wire nuts just because every time it rained the leakage was high enough to trip the GFI on the MH.

bsamole · 12-27-2015, 09:30 AM

GFCI has caused me problems in the past however it is a good safety feature. I would stick with the battery charger or a trickle charger to avoid the possibility of frying the batteries.

ladagobago · 12-27-2015, 07:48 PM

WE can't use a gfi either. Did you try an ungrounded plug.

jacwjames · 12-27-2015, 08:06 PM

Try shutting off whatever breakers you don't need and unplug the refrigerator.

I had the same problem and when I unplugged the refrigerator it would not kick.

tsut · 01-07-2016, 07:31 PM

Shore GFI versus a Surge Guard:
Ran into similar issue running RV that has an in-line TRC 34560. Every time (regardless of GFI outlet; old, new) it would trip the GFI and not bring the Surge Guard and RV online as the TRC 34560 would finish it 'timed start'.

EVENTUALLY (yes frustrating) learned from TRC manufacturer rep that it has a 'feature' that will not allow plugging into a GFI. Ever. They know about it, but have no work around.

Non GFI outlet installed. No issue.

Tom

jerichorick · 01-08-2016, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsut

Shore GFI versus a Surge Guard:
Ran into similar issue running RV that has an in-line TRC 34560. Every time (regardless of GFI outlet; old, new) it would trip the GFI and not bring the Surge Guard and RV online as the TRC 34560 would finish it 'timed start'.

EVENTUALLY (yes frustrating) learned from TRC manufacturer rep that it has a 'feature' that will not allow plugging into a GFI. Ever. They know about it, but have no work around.

Non GFI outlet installed. No issue.

Tom

That is an unusual situation I believe, Tom. But I could be wrong.

First, I have seen 15A GFCI outlets trip because the load was too high. It acted like a circuit breaker. That blew my mind. RV's need a 20A circuit by design. Anything else is not safe. Running the outlet at max spec will destroy it over time. I have replaced many for this reason. The 20A outlets are tougher off the shelf. Or we are less likely to tax them to the limit.

A GFCI responds to an imbalance in current. The current on the hot must equal the current on the neutral. Any ground leakage for any reason that causes this not to be will trip the device. If, for some reason, the ground and neutral are tied together anyplace inside the RV the device will trip. This can be a soft (resistive) connection but that is all it takes.

My DW has a fancy nightlight in the bathroom. Plugging hair clippers into another protected outlet on the circuit will trip that GFCI unless the nightlight is unplugged. Both are 2 prong plugs. I have no real idea why this happens. Both are low current devices. I blame it on coach gremlins.

Welcome to the strange world of GFCI's.

Thanks for that great info, Tom. Makes life interesting.

Rick Y

nothermark · 01-09-2016, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsut

Shore GFI versus a Surge Guard:
Ran into similar issue running RV that has an in-line TRC 34560. Every time (regardless of GFI outlet; old, new) it would trip the GFI and not bring the Surge Guard and RV online as the TRC 34560 would finish it 'timed start'.

EVENTUALLY (yes frustrating) learned from TRC manufacturer rep that it has a 'feature' that will not allow plugging into a GFI. Ever. They know about it, but have no work around.

Non GFI outlet installed. No issue.

Tom

The "feature" is probably part of the sensing circuit that protects your RV.

FWIW I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that GFI's should never be used in power critical applications. The chances of them falsely faulting is too high. I define that is situations where power loss will not be noticed but will do damage in a short time. That further reduces the risk that someone will be in danger as no one is there to watch it.

palehorse89 · 01-09-2016, 07:25 AM

Electrical codes say they have to be installed, so they are.......but they create problems when RV's are plugged into them. The problem is, when in a outdoors location where a RV is stored and the offer a 15/20 amp outlet for mainly battery maintenance, someone "Could" plug a power tool into that outlet to do some work on their RV.........
Simply, GFCI's were designed to protect Human life, not RV's...........and RV's and them do not get along to well. Some do, most do not.

nothermark · 01-11-2016, 08:22 PM

Then you will be thrilled to know that my next move will be to replace the two wire nuts with a switch so I can turn the circuit on and off from the house. With a cheap converter I want the ability to charge when it is really cold or float most of the time without going outside. Since we put in the new parking pad the MH was moved to the GFI'd circuit from a non GFI in the garage. My point is that there are reasons for the code that one should respect. OTOH there are issues that make the decision go different ways if one understands the reasons and is willing to accept the risks. ;-)

tderonne · 01-11-2016, 08:27 PM

I used to use a cheap appliance timer to let the batteries charge an hour a day. No remembering to turn it on and off.

nothermark · 01-12-2016, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tderonne

I used to use a cheap appliance timer to let the batteries charge an hour a day. No remembering to turn it on and off.

That is a thought as I have a timer on the pool motor. It would not be a big deal to make an adapter to pull the 120 feed for the pool pump from that circuit.

jerichorick · 01-12-2016, 07:12 AM

I just had another thought. We have all forgotten the intent of the GFCI. It was never introduced for the purpose of running unique devices such as RVs. The reason was to protect human life and property from non-double insulated appliances when the case might become hot and the user could become a part of the circuit to ground and is to be used when grounding exposure is mot common; sinks and earth. We are protected from accidental shocks from electric lawnmowers, hedge trimmers, electric drills... Common household devices that could potentially fail in this manner.

RV power outlets fall under a different class of design, purpose and code. They are more like electric stoves and dryers, built with special protection to us from the harm of becoming a part of the circuit. Plugging any one of these appliances into a 120V 20A adapter and circuit is NOT what they are intended to do.

To avoid this GFCI problem install a 30A RV recptical and adapt your 50A coach to it. That will be work just fine in all RV situations for storage.

Happy trails,

Rick Y

Luckiest Dreamer · 01-12-2016, 07:17 AM

I found that if I took the inverter out of the equation the problem disappeared. I found that out after paying $400 to have it rebuilt only to find the problem still there. If I turn off the battery and chassis switches and plug my house refrigerator directly to the gfci I am able to keep it cool and the batteries will stay up because there is no draw. If I feel the need to top off the batteries I make a special trip to the RV and charge them in using my trickle charger.

jerichorick · 01-13-2016, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckiest Dreamer

I found that if I took the inverter out of the equation the problem disappeared. I found that out after paying $400 to have it rebuilt only to find the problem still there. If I turn off the battery and chassis switches and plug my house refrigerator directly to the gfci I am able to keep it cool and the batteries will stay up because there is no draw. If I feel the need to top off the batteries I make a special trip to the RV and charge them in using my trickle charger.

Larry, do keep an eye on your batteries. Most of us have parasitic drains. The most common is the natural discharging of lead acid batteries over time. Cold accelerates this process. Some rigs can still be started with the salesman switches off. That means that the electronics of the engine can still be pulling the battery down.

So sorry that you paid out good money for a bad attempted fix. Is the inverter performing any better?

Rick Y

Luckiest Dreamer · 01-13-2016, 07:31 AM

Rick Y
The inverter works fine! Actually, it always did. The diagnosing of trying to find why the GFCI kept popping led directly to the inverter and it was the electricians recomendation to send it to the factory for a rebuild. The factory agreed and when it was reinstalled the GFCI popped, The inverter remained working while on shore power and working as it should when we travel. It just pops GFCI protected circuits! So it cost me $400 for that lesson. My Batteries are fine. They have given me no problems for the 4 years I have used them and we keep a watch on the charge as needed. Running an extension cord directly from the GFCI plug and plugging the frig, in allows us to keep the food cool during the time the RV sits and using yet another extension cord to a free standing battery charger for the batteries just takes the inverter out of the system during any storage period. However since we spend more time in the RV that we do in our stick built, that does not happen often!

wa8yxm · 01-13-2016, 01:14 PM

There are known issues with plugging into a GFCI, I will try to cover the diagnostic procedure then the problem

Diagnostic: TURN OFF ALL Breakers inside the MH.
Plug in, Also plug in a test lamp (Drop cord or other lamp you can see while inside the MH) Plug this into the other half of the GFCI.

Turn on at least one light (incandascent) inside the MH as well

Now, turn on MAIN breakers,, Light remains on GOOD.

One at a time turn on breakers,, So long as light is ON good..

ONE of the breakers will cause either the inside light to brighten or the drop cord lamp to darken.. Turn off all other breakers..

IF it causes the inside light to brighten, GOOD, stop Converter is active. NOTE: if you have an inverter, DISABLE the inverter part (This is dependent on the inverter, On mine I can disable the inverter, or the charger, or both, but you want the INVERTER disabled. If I turn off the entire unit no battery charging can be done by it.. But I have a different option, you likely do not).

Continuing, IF the drop cord goes dark.. Mark that one "SUSPECT" and turn it off, reset GFCI and continue. Till you find the one that darkens the drop lamp.. Then post what that breaker feeds.

The one that Brightens the ceiling light, however, is the Converter's power and that one you leave on, ONLY that one and the main.

==Option== ON my coach the Converter (primary) is a PLUG in model , Progressive Dynamics 9180 with wizard.. For 20 amp Shore power I have an adapter so I can plug into a standard 15 amp cord or outlet.. 100% independent from MH on 120 volt side.. WORKS GREAT.

Now: The known issues.
Often there is a very tiny short on some circuits. Fridge, Water heater, Or an inverter may have the neutral bonding done wrong (mine did for a while, my fault) this may bother a GFCI.

Another issue is some converters will trip a GFCI either when batteries are FULL, or when they are very hungry.

Tripping off as many breakers as possible limits the issues from other devices and narrows it down to the Converter (If that is the problem)

Oh to make a 20 amp plug adapter...

Basically I took a shore 15 amp appliance cord and put a 15/20 outlet on it.. I should point out that the converter maxes at aroudn 11 amps in my case, so that is not a danger. I normally feed it with a 15 amp breaker. (needed the 20 for something else) but it came with a 20 amp plug

how to tell a 15/20 amp outlet from a 15 only "T" shaped Neutral slot.