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Old 11-17-2021, 08:42 AM   #1
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12VDC Refrigerator and AGM Batteries

I am looking seriously into having my NorCold refrigerator upgraded by JC Refrigeration to a 12VDC compressor style.


I have heard others in Social Media with concerns regarding their Chassis alternator, converter and batteries keeping up while driving. Everyone wants to jump to Lithium.



I don't claim to be an electrical engineer, but these units only pull 7.5 A (90W) of power at 12VDC, when running and it would not likely be running flat out 100% of the time.



I don't see where the Chassis Alternator would have any issues with the added load through the converter, but don't have all the specs for the Alternator or the Converter in my older Motor Home.


Has anyone else had any experience with this set up?
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Old 11-17-2021, 09:02 AM   #2
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I don't have experience with a 12v fridge, mine is 110v, BUT, there shouldn't be any issue with your alternator or converter. The only issue is with your house batteries for when you are camping without shore power.

The fridge will use enough power over a 24-hour period that you must either increase your house battery bank's amp hour capacity or run a generator to keep up with the fridge when camping without shore power. On shore power or when driving your RV you should have no concerns about powering the fridge.

The discussion of alternator issues and converter issues is directly related to the use of Lithium batteries. If you're not switching to lithium then these issues don't apply to you.

So, it really depends on how much dry-camping without power you plan on doing. If you plan to do a lot then the 12v fridge will require you to investigate more powerful batteries and if that includes a switch to Lithium then you will need to be concerned with your alternator and your converter.
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Old 11-17-2021, 09:15 AM   #3
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I'm in 100% agreement with creativepart. By the way, when you're driving or camping without shore power, your converter is completely out of the picture. It only functions when you're on shore power.

If you do dry-camp a lot, you might want to reconsider the conversion, especially if your Norcold is operating well.
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Old 11-17-2021, 09:45 AM   #4
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For Dometic 10cuft 12v compressor fridge, plan on it consuming 35-50 ah/day.
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Old 11-17-2021, 02:43 PM   #5
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tim myers-

If you are going to go with the 12V compressor-based designs, "creativepart" has covered the bases.

JC Refrigeration also offers a 120V compressor-based option, similar to the 12V in that it uses the existing refrigerator cabinet while replacing the cooling unit.

I rarely camp without 120VAC, so elected to replace the original Norcold with a residential refrigerator. It uses the same 90W or less, or about 0.75A at 120V. For those times when shore power is not available, I use a portable inverter-with-battery. It is about the size of an old-fashioned metal hand-carry toolbox, and weighs about 25 pounds. It has enough capacity to run the refrigerator for 10 hours or more, so it works great keeping the reefer cold as I go down the road. I always have the option to use the generator, as well.
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Old 11-17-2021, 05:30 PM   #6
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OK, so I am not crazy. I have 110AH of AGM battery so 50% is about 55AH. At this point in our Journey, we are not doing a lot of off grid camping, and almost always have shore power. On the rare occasion we would need some extended time without shore power or genset power, I should be good for 8 to 12 hours before the lower voltage starts to affect the compressor.



The massive 10 Watt solar panel really contributes to the power of the Journey, totally kidding LOL.It does keep things topped off during the day and adds a bit of power whem driving on sunny days.



I did verify that the Chassis alternator is 160 Amp, so an extra 7.5 shouldn't hurt anything.


I do want to move toward lithium at some point and plan to change out the converter to something that is multi compatible between the AGM and a future Lithium. There is so much to change out to do it correctly, I will likely do a couple components at a time. Since the Converter is original, it seems the first thing to change out. Any suggestions appreciated.
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Old 11-17-2021, 05:34 PM   #7
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As an FYI, those worthless 10w solar panels are wired directly to your Chassis battery not your house battery banks. At least that's what they've always connected to in the past. Though I remember one member swore that his charged his house batteries a year or so ago.

There is no solar charge controller and it was meant as a tiny trickle charge on the chassis battery.

UPDATE! I just looked at your Operator's Manual and it clearly says it charges your House batteries. But goes on to refer to the batteries as "Coach" batteries. So, I clearly have no idea what it actually is.
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Old 11-17-2021, 05:42 PM   #8
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That is good information to have, I should dig through the wiring schematics and see if I can find how it is connected. I will let you know what I see when I look at it. All I know it that it lights the little red LED. I think House and Coach are pretty interchangeable, vs Chassis, I will dig into this a bit.


As I said, our present plans do not include lots of off grid camping, so I am not looking for an ISS sized solar array, but 400 to 600 watts would be nice down the road. I plan to do my research before purchasing a soar charge controller, so I have some options. again down the road.



For now I just plan to use the Journey for 5 years then reassess what I want to do whether that be upgrade or replace. Who knows by then I may be tired of driving and glamping all over, only time will tell.
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Old 11-17-2021, 06:34 PM   #9
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If your current converter provides multi-stage charging, you should be OK with it for now. You should be able to tell from its specs. I suggest holding off on buying anything with the idea of a future Lithium conversion. Technology changes quickly and none of us know what will be available a couple of years from now. Solar, however, is a good idea but, if you seldom dry camp, I think 400 to 600 watts is probably overkill. 200W is probably all you need and you can always add more. On the other hand, adding solar are fairly inexpensive.
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Old 11-17-2021, 06:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim myers View Post
All I know it that it lights the little red LED.
That is just about all it does... for which ever battery it does it for.
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Old 11-17-2021, 06:58 PM   #11
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My original 2002, tiny panel has been keeping my house and starting batteries topped off (I have an Amp-L-Start) until I noticed it was starting to fail a few months ago. I have two 160w panels to install but right now am getting by with an old 50w panel mounted to my ladder while my MH is in storage.
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:13 PM   #12
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I had JC refrideration convert my dometic 1200 to 12 volt this summer. I have lead acid batteries. I too a trip from NW indiana to Cody Wyoming also to Gatlinburg Tennessee. Never a issue with power
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:18 PM   #13
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I would jump to the 12 volt dc compressor fridge. When the AGM batteries are worn out, I'd go to SiO2 which don't have all the "hoops" that Li require
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:58 AM   #14
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Tim Myers, If you 2007 Journey has the original factory setup you don't have a "converter", you have 2000 watt inverter/charger. I don't recall the brand name though, Dimension possibly. Also I believe the batteries were three 12V deep cycle batteries for about 300AH of max capacity.



You probably have a basement air conditioner so you have a lot of open space on your roof. If you do upgrade to solar, with the intent to do more dry camping or boondocking, look into getting a pair of residential solar panels with around 300 to 350 watts each. Especially if you are going to lithium batteries.



I have a 2006 Journey with 650 watts of solar and 400AH of Lithium and can go indefinitely w/o running the generator or shore power. I can't run the air conditioner, but do use the microwave, toaster, CPAP, laptops, instant pot cooker, etc. If I was to run a residential fridge I would add another solar panel and go to 600AH of lithium.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:06 AM   #15
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I replaced my kaput Norcold cooling unit (leaking after 9 years), with the JC Refrigeration 120v compressor cooling unit. A three hour operation to swap out the cooling unit. It uses about 66w when running. And cools much faster, much colder in freezer. I have it plugged into my 1000w inverter which is connected to my 4 GC2 6v batteries (440ah). When driving, the engine alternator keeps the batteries charged, and the refer running great. I even get ice cubes while driving. When boondocking, I usually run the generator a bit a night, and in the morning. Have never had a problem with the refer or other items running off the inverter all night.

As I understand it, the 12v cooling unit would be a bit more efficient (than the 120v on inverter) getting its power directly from the battery/converter source, but not quite as efficient as the 120v cooling unit at actually cooling the refer. So it is a decision on your part as to which way to go. I think either is much better than the original Norcold.

Regarding converters, I believe all modern RV's have them, they convert 120v to 12v to run lights and things while plugged into shore power or generator. They can be stand-alone units, combined with inverters, chargers, etc. Lots of different configurations.

Converters are pretty automatic, they work in tandem with the house batteries. But, if
your house batteries are not holding a charge, then all sorts of issues pop up even when plugged into shore power. Lights can flicker and dim, controls may not work right, as the converter periodically cuts out to cool down.

When weird electrical issues pop up out of nowhere, first place to check, those batteries. Then go after the harder stuff.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:29 AM   #16
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The issue I had with AGM multiple times in ERA and on our boat is that once you take them even 1 time below that 50% you NEVER get the full 100amp/50% capacity of of 50 amps for example again. This is why I jump to lithium for house bank on our ERA. 200 amps of lithium is 180 amp usable and NO issue if you run to down to 0....our refer is novakool and DC only on 2019 ERA 70A 4x4. 5.5 amps was draw and on hot days it run non stop so we would use our house bank up in less then 24 hrs....if you drive daily, and/or always plug in shore power less of issue, we seldom plug in and do not drive every day so that is where we had our issue. Solar wise we add 3rd panel or have 300 watts so in summer we get 10-12 amps of recharger for 6-8 hours days, that is much lower in winter, but then there refer is working less so it has work out to where we never plug in and solar and refer run 24/7 on the 2 battleborn lithium's. Again in SO Calif so lots more Sunshine out here...my main point was AGM are not very forgiving, and do not like getting run down past 50%.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:49 AM   #17
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The issue I had with AGM multiple times in ERA and on our boat is that once you take them even 1 time below that 50% you NEVER get the full 100amp/50% capacity of of 50 amps for example again.
While I totally agree that Lithium batteries are great and super flexible for RV use, I don't agree with your exaggerated AGM complaint.

My AGMs (4-100ah NAPA Commercial Batteries) are going on 5 years this Summer and have been down to below 50% more than I'd like to admit. Probably a dozen times at least. Yet they still are doing fine and holding a full charge.

I'm actually waiting for them to "fail" so that I can be justified in replacing them with Lithium batteries. And, they just keep holding on.

One of the problems with buying an RV is you never know the history of the batteries - even brand new RVs on a dealer's lot. Who knows how many times they were left on and drained and sat drained for days or weeks before being recharged.

So, yeah, Lithium batteries are great. But, AGMs are not anywhere near as flawed as you make them out to be.
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Old 11-22-2021, 11:00 AM   #18
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While I totally agree that Lithium batteries are great and super flexible for RV use, I don't agree with your exaggerated AGM complaint.

My AGMs (4-100ah NAPA Commercial Batteries) are going on 5 years this Summer and have been down to below 50% more than I'd like to admit. Probably a dozen times at least. Yet they still are doing fine and holding a full charge.

I'm actually waiting for them to "fail" so that I can be justified in replacing them with Lithium batteries. And, they just keep holding on.

One of the problems with buying an RV is you never know the history of the batteries - even brand new RVs on a dealer's lot. Who knows how many times they were left on and drained and sat drained for days or weeks before being recharged.

So, yeah, Lithium batteries are great. But, AGMs are not anywhere near as flawed as you make them out to be.
Thanks for sharing, I think you have a large bank which hides the issue we had on small banks of 1 or 2 batteries. I can tell you the first time NAPA exchange of warranty, the 2nd time they blamed my misuse and would not for the reason I shared. to each his own.
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Old 11-22-2021, 11:14 AM   #19
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I took my new AGMs down to 45% SOC on a long trip this spring. They were back to 100% when we got back. Since then I have done a dozen or so cycles down to 70% and they still pop back to 100%.

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Old 11-22-2021, 11:23 AM   #20
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I think I was unclear, your voltage will come back, it is the AMP Hr capacity that is effect, similar to the memory effect on other old school rechargeable batteries (nicad for example), you will get the the voltage to read 100% but your batteries actual amp hours are what drops, you will notice they do not run your refer as long.
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