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Old 11-17-2014, 06:27 PM   #61
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Not really true, also Newmar and I think Tiffin, off the top of my head.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:56 AM   #62
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Hi Mike,

What is not true?

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Old 11-18-2014, 08:49 AM   #63
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Why a Winnebago? Our comparison was the Thor ACE vs. the Winnebago Brave. The ACE had some curb appeal at the time. Taking a look inside it would have suited my family of four so we took it for a drive. That thing was terrible to drive, very loud, crap rattling all over the inside of it. Over lunch we decided that there was no way we would buy it.

Two years have gone by as there was nothing out there that appealed to us. We thought that all the small A class gassers were loud POS's. But I start poking around the net again as my kids are just starting to get a bit older and we thought that if we're going to dive into Rv'ing we better do it now. We found the Brave/Tribute and it satisfies everything we initially wanted in an RV. It's a clean no BS design. It doesn't look like a casino inside lol. We drove it and the sound level is acceptably decent. Everything inside looks well made and not cheap like the Thor ACE. I'm signing an order sheet for a Brave 27B today.

Winnebago does a great job in their marketing. I'm green in all of this and I know that WGO is not leaps and bounds better but I do believe that they are a notch above the Thor's, Coachman, Forest River's etc. Time will tell.
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Old 11-18-2014, 03:29 PM   #64
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you are correct, Mike..I should have said "one of the few".
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:04 PM   #65
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As I understand it, when the economy turned south some years ago, Winnebago stayed open, yes, but they downsized considerably. That meant a lot of their old hands, folks with a lot of experience were laid off. As Winnebago started building up its manufacturing capacity again it started hiring young people from local trade schools, etc. what old timers were left were moved up in the company off the assembly lines and into tech support, advisor and a new repair facility. The later is a facility that handles any coaches that return for repair. So, not only did they start using less experienced people on the assembly line, but the changed their quality control (QC) processes. Instead of using highly trained, highly skilled people as independent inspectors on the line, they have certified their assembly line personnel to self inspect their work. I can tell you from experience, and with a list as long as my arm, of the many problems we had with our 2011 Tour and current 2014 Ellipse, mostly due to poor craftsmanship. I would suggest much of their repair or rework of new coaches is the result of mistakes and oversights on the assembly line. Next time we might consider an Allegro Bus. Buyer beware.


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Old 11-18-2014, 09:14 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ChrisKW View Post
As I understand it, when the economy turned south some years ago, Winnebago stayed open, yes, but they downsized considerably. That meant a lot of their old hands, folks with a lot of experience were laid off. As Winnebago started building up its manufacturing capacity again it started hiring young people from local trade schools, etc. what old timers were left were moved up in the company off the assembly lines and into tech support, advisor and a new repair facility. The later is a facility that handles any coaches that return for repair. So, not only did they start using less experienced people on the assembly line, but the changed their quality control (QC) processes. Instead of using highly trained, highly skilled people as independent inspectors on the line, they have certified their assembly line personnel to self inspect their work. I can tell you from experience, and with a list as long as my arm, of the many problems we had with our 2011 Tour and current 2014 Ellipse, mostly due to poor craftsmanship. I would suggest much of their repair or rework of new coaches is the result of mistakes and oversights on the assembly line. Next time we might consider an Allegro Bus. Buyer beware.


Chris & Deb - North Venice, FL - 2014 Itasca Ellipse 42QD - Toad: 2014 Jeep Rubicon
This is really unfortunate. From all the problems I've read about from all makes I pray that I don't have any major problems when we get our Brave.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:31 AM   #67
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We ordered a Vista 30T in May of 2013. It was a 2014 on a 2013 F-53 chassis. We used Lichtsinn Motors in FC, Iowa for the order and delivery.
They gave us a good deal on our trade-in and a good price on the actual coach. Yes they made $$$$$ but we did compare.

So far we have had few problems and WBGO has been very good on the support aspect of the repairs. We are using our local CW dealer for the warranty work and repairs. We took delivery around the last of July first of August. Just before the 1-year warranty expired all issues were completed. Here's a list.

1. Before we left FC the control panel for all on-board functions, electrical/water and propane levels was replaced. That took about 10 minutes.

2. The coach pulled to the right on the trip home. It turned out to be a defective tire.

3. Passenger slide started leaving small piles of aluminum shavings on floor. I called CW and the SM told me to take pictures. He shared them with WBGO and they eventually authorized a slide mechanism replacement.

4. Alignment by Ford and WBGO was way off and Ford authorized payment for another alignment at a local garage of my choosing ($150).

I have done the "McKinley Fix" (CHF) both front and rear. Added a steering stabilizer shock, Safe-T-Steer and built a rear track bar for ($45). Total cost of upgrades was about $700.

The coach has about 8,500 miles. I can drive and steer the coach with one hand and am very relaxed when traveling. Semi's approaching (from rear) only affect the coach if they happen to not be centered in their passing lane and are approaching the rear of our coach a little closer than they should. The actual affect of any semi is also dependent on the frontal area of the semi and how much of a wall of air they are pushing. Semi's approaching from the other lane on a 2-lane road do not affect the coach at all.

We have not yet driven out West and had the pleasure of experiencing those strong desert 30 to 40 MPH wind gusts. I don't expect any real issues when and if we do. If it gets to scary then we'll just pull over and wait it out. Or we could find a road and go with the wind.

So far we are very happy with the interior fit and finish and the overall quality.

When we were on the factory tour I also asked and got this answer. When WBGO was real busy they were building about 600 coaches a week. In May of 2013 they were building about 150 coaches a week. I'm sure that changes with the seasons and demand.

TeJay
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:44 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKW View Post
As I understand it, when the economy turned south some years ago, Winnebago stayed open, yes, but they downsized considerably. That meant a lot of their old hands, folks with a lot of experience were laid off. As Winnebago started building up its manufacturing capacity again it started hiring young people from local trade schools, etc. what old timers were left were moved up in the company off the assembly lines and into tech support, advisor and a new repair facility. The later is a facility that handles any coaches that return for repair. So, not only did they start using less experienced people on the assembly line, but the changed their quality control (QC) processes. Instead of using highly trained, highly skilled people as independent inspectors on the line, they have certified their assembly line personnel to self inspect their work. I can tell you from experience, and with a list as long as my arm, of the many problems we had with our 2011 Tour and current 2014 Ellipse, mostly due to poor craftsmanship. I would suggest much of their repair or rework of new coaches is the result of mistakes and oversights on the assembly line. Next time we might consider an Allegro Bus. Buyer beware.


Chris & Deb - North Venice, FL - 2014 Itasca Ellipse 42QD - Toad: 2014 Jeep Rubicon

We have had no major problems and the quality is definitely there.

We have owned a new 2008 gasser from Winnebago and our current rig just turned 3 years old.


It now has 23,000 miles and we have camped in 109 campgrounds.

So it is well used.

If you have ever taken the factory tour you know that all products are made on the same line. So how could the comments above be true.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:54 AM   #69
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ChrisK,

It amazes me how a person who is on it's second WBGO can be so critical and know what goes on at WBGO. How does one get all that information? You should try to built a house and put it on wheels.

Maybe you should have bought a Monaco or any other company that went belly up and then try to get parts or drawings or a great service advisor system.

WBGO has been making RV's for a long time and is always there for their customers no matter who is on the line. You should try to be on an assembly line and see what is involved.

I really think Chris you need to buy a motor home from another company and then post a new message.

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Old 11-19-2014, 08:23 PM   #70
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Gentleman, I take no offense by your critique. Hopefully we can agree that this forum should be a place for shared experiences, suggestion, and insight of which can be discussed through thoughtful conversation. We can 'respectfully' disagree without casting criticisms.

After twenty-five years in the oversight and development of QC, QA and ISO 9001 standards and programs, coupled with our own experience with two motorcoaches, as well as shared experiences of other owners we have met, it is my opinion that the Winnebago production line had declined in quality and craftsmanship in recent years. Again, that is my stated opinion, and if that is not your experience than great.

The original point remains; buyers need to look closely at the current manufacturers, their products, and their services before making a large investment. Winnebago produces very desirable products, that they stand behind their products, there is certainly an ease to obtaining replacement parts, and their service advisors are simply outstanding. The company made some sacrifices and tuff decisions to avoid closing the doors when others filed for bankruptcy. That said, most companies that changed manufacturing practices which reduce or eliminate independent, dedicated QC inspection during the manufacturing process have typically seen a decline in product reliability and craftsmanship. Equally important is the need for proper employee training to ensure that a product is created correctly, which means competence, such as knowledge, skills, experience, and qualifications is essential.

You cannot simply take a factory tour and walk away believing their production line is the best in the business, you need to also look at the end products across their inventory. To do that you study their data regarding warranty requests and rework requests, but then we cannot access their data, so we can only rely on our own experiences and those of our fellow owners. Many of us had long punch lists before even leaving the dealer's lot for issues originating on the production line, and some avoidable failures revealed themselves once on the road. So, although a 'house on wheels' is prone to 'things happening' is true, unfortunately the incidence of failures and defects are far higher than they should be. Your experience may differ, and if so you are most fortunate.


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Old 11-20-2014, 06:37 AM   #71
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Chris, thanks for some common sense. Like you I have had numerous problems with our 2014 adventurer 37f and have had the same people defend wbgo when all I was doing was adding my experiences so that others can make a more informed decision and others to know that they are not alone with their problems. Isn't that one of the main reasons for this site? The one poster who told you to buy another brand also was very aggressive in defending wbgo with me. Might be an employee monitoring the site. As I sit here in an rv park in Myrtle Beach (it was 23 degrees last night) this morning having my morning juice, I am reviewing my warranty repair list that I will be giving my dealer next month of 15 items from leveling Jack problems, inaccurate tank readings(3rd time), broken couch, slide marks on the floor, large gaps in the floor tiles exposing the plywood underneath, etc. This after already having a23 item list done a couple of months ago, and a13 item list done after initial delivery. Fit and finish is a joke and to the poster who said it was better than forest river, it's not. We had a2012 Georgetown 378 that did not have a quarter of these issues I have now. Love the floor plan but not sure I would do a wbgo again.
Now waiting for comment from our favorite poster telling me to go back to forest river! Anyways, you made a LOT of sense thanks and good luck with any issues you still might have
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:41 AM   #72
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I believe everyone will have their favorite brand. Look at sports teams, the big 3 and clothing brand names.

Unfortunately the quality of build and product allegiance can and will change over time. For example all of the big 3 have spent time in front of congressional hearings explaining shortcomings in their products or maintenance.

Everyone runs through cycles and one hopes that you will get a good product based on the high prices we pay for them. Possibly our expectations are too high or possibly their quality processes are too low.

IMO startup companies will deliver high quality for the first while as they produce a few new units and are trying to get into the market. When the market opens for them the rapid expansion they encounter will create all kinds of problems. Older companies will have gone through the expansion issues will have to complete with the new companies and will have to cut something to remain competetive and still pay for the expansion. It becomes a vicious circle driven by marketing and sometimes gimickry.

While I wish we all could get perfect coaches I know realistically it will not happen. There will always be a Monday or Friday build that will be from hell. Then the quality of the company will come into play as how they will support you.
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